how can we rid society of unions?

[werepossum]

Agreed. My only heartburn comes when government steps in and tilts the playing field in favor of one side or the other. In the early days they would help the companies bust unions, now they lean more towards helping the unions bust companies. I would love to see the Beck decision upheld with the same enthusiasm some in the government bring to card check.

Agree totally.

 

[highland145]

Which union are you a member of?

He-men woman haters united?

 

[cubby1223]

As I recall, the bond holders got a vote.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/31/business/31gm.html

As *I* recall, the Obama administration was throwing their weight around a lot when there was a fiercely anti-"rich" attitude highlighted by numerous SEIU and ACORN-bussed protest rallies looking for someone to blame.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/01/business/01hedge.html

Did the bond holders get a fair vote?

 

[Patranus]

Repeal the 17th amendment.

 

[palehorse]

I am not sure where these teachers are that are getting 3.3 million in pensions, but I am pretty sure there would not be a need for more teachers in this country if they were giving out 3.3 mill at the end of the rainbow. I sure as hell would have picked a different career path. Who exactly are you listening to? Rush?

Slow your roll. That data is from a direct quote of Gov. Christie in New Jersey. I highly recommend reading the entire speech if you get the chance... it's quite good:
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2010/02/chris_christies_speech_on_budg.html

Here is the relevant quote:

"One state retiree, 49 years old, paid, over the course of his entire career, a total of $124,000 towards his retirement pension and health benefits. What will we pay him? $3.3 million in pension payments over his life and nearly $500,000 for health care benefits -- a total of $3.8m on a $120,000 investment. Is that fair?"

​

One problem is that Christie may not have been referring to teachers, specifically, with that statement. It could have been any state employee/retiree. However, the very next segment of the speech is this:

"A retired teacher paid $62,000 towards her pension and nothing, yes nothing, for full family medical, dental and vision coverage over her entire career. What will we pay her? $1.4 million in pension benefits and another $215,000 in health care benefit premiums over her lifetime. Is it “fair” for all of us and our children to have to pay for this excess?"

​

The union-driven pension system is quite obviously unsustainable... that is, it's obvious IF you're paying attention. Accusing the OP of drawing his data from Rush Limbaugh indicates to me that you're not paying very close attention to the politics of this subject, so you should probably ditch the lame accusations...

My only heartburn comes when government steps in and tilts the playing field in favor of one side or the other. In the early days they would help the companies bust unions, now they lean more towards helping the unions bust companies.

^^This.

 

[WHAMPOM]

except that we pay them unemployement for their accual 5 month vacation at 60% of that 40/hr

teachers dont get shitty pay, I am an IT admin, and I make slightly less per hour than my wife

I clear way more than her because I work ALOT more hours than she does. She makes a fine hourly wage, people seeem to forgot they work about 190 days a year instead the 250 or so regular people work

my wifes union just went to bat to keep a teacher on that got fired due to low performance evaulations for the last few years

instead she is staying and they cut the last teacher on the seniority list who had better evals than the lazy POS due to budget cuts

they blindly support all the union members no matter what they do unless they molest a child, and its stupid. they are wasting everyones $$ because on top of that the tenure'd teacher makes way more than the new teacher with good eval scores.

Never takes papers home to grade or make lesson plans there either? No after school meetings with parents? No refresher courses during the Summer? Your're right your wife is a douchbag. Or are you just jealous of her renumeration? You get paid for overtime? WOW!!! Better cut that out right now! Crybaby!

 

[Turin39789]

Never takes papers home to grade or make lesson plans there either? No after school meetings with parents? No refresher courses during the Summer? Your're right your wife is a douchbag. Or are you just jealous of her renumeration? You get paid for overtime? WOW!!! Better cut that out right now! Crybaby!

The teachers I worked with were generally at the school until 5, often back for events at 7 and worked with students on the weekend. I was too lazy to pursue the career and take a paycut.

:

"One state retiree, 49 years old, paid, over the course of his entire career, a total of $124,000 towards his retirement pension and health benefits. What will we pay him? $3.3 million in pension payments over his life and nearly $500,000 for health care benefits -- a total of $3.8m on a $120,000 investment. Is that fair?"​

How many paid in for 15 years and died without collecting any benefits? I know I'm saving for a retirement I don't expect to see.​

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

except that we pay them unemployement for their accual 5 month vacation at 60% of that 40/hr

teachers dont get shitty pay, I am an IT admin, and I make slightly less per hour than my wife

I clear way more than her because I work ALOT more hours than she does. She makes a fine hourly wage, people seeem to forgot they work about 190 days a year instead the 250 or so regular people work

my wifes union just went to bat to keep a teacher on that got fired due to low performance evaulations for the last few years

instead she is staying and they cut the last teacher on the seniority list who had better evals than the lazy POS due to budget cuts

they blindly support all the union members no matter what they do unless they molest a child, and its stupid. they are wasting everyones $$ because on top of that the tenure'd teacher makes way more than the new teacher with good eval scores.

yup.
any system where compensation is not merit based is doomed to fail.
tenure is the biggest crock of shit.

 

[her209]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/01/business/01hedge.html

Did the bond holders get a fair vote?

Yes they did. They were trying to shakedown the government for more bailout money.

 

[Patranus]

Yes they did. They were trying to shakedown the government for more bailout money.

Bonds are secured debt.
Stock is unsecured debt.

Under existing law 100% of bond debt is to be repaid before a single penny of stock debt is repaid.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Never takes papers home to grade or make lesson plans there either? No after school meetings with parents? No refresher courses during the Summer? Your're right your wife is a douchbag. Or are you just jealous of her renumeration? You get paid for overtime? WOW!!! Better cut that out right now! Crybaby!

i know several teachers.
sure from home they grade papers and do lesson plans for a couple more hours. but they also only work from 8:30am-2:45pm. so with the work they bring home, they're doing 8-5 like most people.

refresher courses over the summer? nope, they're out vacationing or tutoring for extra money.

 

[HumblePie]

Not really a fan of unions in many industries. Some still need it like the agriculture industry and such. Basically, if the union is causing more harm than good, then it needs to be fixed or go.

 

[palehorse]

How many paid in for 15 years and died without collecting any benefits? I know I'm saving for a retirement I don't expect to see.

The exact answer to that question is pretty difficult to ascertain, but I know the short answer is this: not nearly enough.

The very next portion of the same Christie speech is this:

"The total unfunded pension and medical benefit costs are $90 billion. We would have to pay $7 billion per year to make them current. We don’t have that money—you know it and I know it. What has been done to our citizens by offering a pension system we cannot afford and health benefits that are 41% more expensive than the average fortune 500 company’s costs is the truly unfair part of this equation."

​

So, even folks like you who may kick-the-bucket early aren't making much of a difference in the long run... but, can you imagine what it would be like if everyone lived to 90, or longer!?

 

[her209]

Bonds are secured debt.
Stock is unsecured debt.

Under existing law 100% of bond debt is to be repaid before a single penny of stock debt is repaid.

They had a vote to reject the plan. They didn't.

 

[Mr. Lennon]

So OP, does your wife know you are jealous of the "amazing" benefits her job provides her with?

Since she is your wife and all...won't you be benefiting from her retirement as well? You know damn right you are enjoying the free health insurance.

Until you tell your wife to stop accepting all of these benefits and the nice retirement package she will receive, you need to shut the fuck up.

 

[theeedude]

1. Abolish "the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances," under the first amendment.
2. Set the water cannons lose

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

So OP, does your wife know you are jealous of the "amazing" benefits her job provides her with?

Since she is your wife and all...won't you be benefiting from her retirement as well? You know damn right you are enjoying the free health insurance.

Until you tell your wife to stop accepting all of these benefits and the nice retirement package she will receive, you need to shut the fuck up.

i don't have a wife so you can kindly shut the fuck up yourself.

 

[Red Dawn]

Unions today are for the weak, helpless, and lazy. Everyone knows this

Then you'd make a good Union member if that's the criteria you are using to judge them. As a member of the Carpenters Union for 15 years I can state that the weak,lazy and helpless didn't last long.

 

[Mr. Lennon]

i don't have a wife so you can kindly shut the fuck up yourself.

Rofl, that is what I get for trying to post from my phone. A post made by Zargon showed up as your name.

 

[MJinZ]

Then you'd make a good Union member if that's the criteria you are using to judge them. As a member of the Carpenters Union for 15 years I can state that the weak,lazy and helpless didn't last long.

Is there a Janitor's union too?

IMO Janitors should also make $80k a year and afford a big house in the burbs.

Because here in America, apparently everyone deserves it all regardless of what you do for a living.

 

[piasabird]

The problem with your thinking is that not all unions are bad. Unions are important in the construction trades. Without a union there is no accounting for the quality of work or if there is even a valid training program. When you hire a non-union carpenter, you do not know what you are getting. Anyone with a hammer can claim to be a carpenter. Construction is the trade with the most problems with unfinished substandard work and rampant law suits.

When I worked in a factory, I saw more abuse by management than you would even believe. After you have filled a room full of hoppers, climbing up steps with brass shells for a month till your back was aching every time you moved you can start talking some baloney. Then every time same a-hole called off they would make you work a 16 hour shift, sometimes back to back.

The problem is not really the union it is management always trying to mistreat the worker and then ask them to work in inhumane conditions.

 

[Linflas]

Is there a Janitor's union too?

Yes it is called SEIU.

IMO Janitors should also make $80k a year and afford a big house in the burbs.

Because here in America, apparently everyone deserves it all regardless of what you do for a living.

I suspect Andy Stern would not detect your sarcasm.

 

[CitizenKain]

Maybe if the anti-union people get their way, we can bring back company scrip and repeal those pesky child labor laws. If the corporation says its good, then it has to be good.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Blah Blah, don't cut off your nose to spite your face. You are probably enjoying having various benefits at your workplace and at your job that you take for granted that came about as a result of labor unions. I agree that the unions aren't always good for employees, the economy, or for society. However, they have also done some good things and we shouldn't forget that.

It's funny to see so many people saying that teachers and other types of workers are receiving too much compensation without looking in the mirror. I bet that if someone tried to cut the posters' compensation that they would squeal and complain loudly.

 

[MJinZ]

Yes it is called SEIU.



I suspect Andy Stern would not detect your sarcasm.

Interesting. I do think that everyone should be able to make a good living doing even the most basic labor, but they should also not expect to live to the same standards as someone with higher education or uncommon skills.

Unions artificially allow them to do this, and we are left as a nation being dragged down by regressive labor instead of progressive education and innovation.

Labor is only necessary as long as we do not have machines to do it. Eventually, labor will only be left to the tasks suitable for a human touch (like hair cuts or whatever).