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Discussion How can democracy function when part of the population are acting on non-factual information?

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Entangled

Banned
Nov 28, 2020
80
9
11
Substack? Lol.

The author there makes an error so elementary that I suspect it is on purpose to deceive you. He is using estimates of unconfirmed cases for the case count and only confirmed deaths for the death count. So he’s using an apples to oranges comparison to try and push his narrative.

Basically he’s lying to you or he’s incompetent. I would blacklist him and never read anything he says again if I were you.
The majority of cases are unconfirmed because at least 80 percent have no symptoms and as such have nothing to be tested for. I have also heard though not sure that people with no symptoms actually test negative because there is not enough virus to trigger a positive.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
6,435
4,930
136
Lincoln already brought this up.

"A house divided against itself, cannot stand." I believe this government cannot endure permanently half slave and half free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved — I do not expect the house to fall — but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing or all the other. "

A more recent paraphrase by a blogger is "This nation can no longer survive half-Fox and half-free."
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
71,105
20,755
136
The majority of cases are unconfirmed because at least 80 percent have no symptoms and as such have nothing to be tested for. I have also heard though not sure that people with no symptoms actually test negative because there is not enough virus to trigger a positive.
Not relevant to the guy’s basic analytic error. He is either incompetent or deliberately trying to deceive you. Either way, bad news.
 

allisolm

Elite Member
Administrator
Jan 2, 2001
23,626
1,648
136
Oh my. Great sources. :rolleyes:

Link #1: despite the article's title, only the author says that 86% of UK covid patients have no symptoms. The study referenced says that 86% of the 115 people who tested positive in the study did not report any specific symptoms on the day of the test. Big difference.

Link#2: written by a covid denier who calls the people who wear masks a cult.

Link #3: a video by Dr Polly Heil-Mealey who is not an MD or an accredited doctor of anything but who practices the pseudoscience hokum of iridology.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
71,105
20,755
136
Oh my. Great sources. :rolleyes:

Link #1: despite the article's title, only the author says that 86% of UK covid patients have no symptoms. The study referenced says that 86% of the 115 people who tested positive in the study did not report any specific symptoms on the day of the test. Big difference.

Link#2: written by a covid denier who calls the people who wear masks a cult.

Link #3: a video by Dr Polly Heil-Mealey who is not an MD or an accredited doctor of anything but who practices the pseudoscience hokum of iridology.
Well I guess we now know what happens when people are reacting on non-factual information, haha.
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
15,184
3,978
136
Speaking of not factual information check out this clown. There's an explosion of fake news like this and trumpanzees are soaking it up. I'm stunned by their desire to believe this fantasy.

 

Entangled

Banned
Nov 28, 2020
80
9
11
Oh my. Great sources. :rolleyes:

Link #1: despite the article's title, only the author says that 86% of UK covid patients have no symptoms. The study referenced says that 86% of the 115 people who tested positive in the study did not report any specific symptoms on the day of the test. Big difference.

Link#2: written by a covid denier who calls the people who wear masks a cult.

Link #3: a video by Dr Polly Heil-Mealey who is not an MD or an accredited doctor of anything but who practices the pseudoscience hokum of iridology.
LOL, the fact is that I had covid, as did the rest of my family and I have no fear whatsoever, nor will I get a vaccine. But I do respect your right to wear two masks, and be first on line to get vaccinated. Do you think that people who are living in fear of their lives are better off than me? See others can tell me to be scared, but no one can make me scared, why would I possibly fear what I already had.

Not sure why my opinion and the fact that I had covid bothers people so much. And how is my having had this interpreted as denial?

CDC Data Shows Coronavirus Survival Rate: 99%-Plus for Ages 69 and Younger, 94.6% for Older (breitbart.com)
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
71,105
20,755
136
LOL, the fact is that I had covid, as did the rest of my family and I have no fear whatsoever, nor will I get a vaccine. But I do respect your right to wear two masks, and be first on line to get vaccinated. Do you think that people who are living in fear of their lives are better off than me? See others can tell me to be scared, but no one can make me scared, why would I possibly fear what I already had.

Not sure why my opinion and the fact that I had covid bothers people so much. And how is my having had this interpreted as denial?

CDC Data Shows Coronavirus Survival Rate: 99%-Plus for Ages 69 and Younger, 94.6% for Older (breitbart.com)
You did link to misinformation about COVID though. While that might not be denial it’s something adjacent to it.
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
7,617
2,779
136
Wiped the drive then installed Linux. Wiped it again and went back to win. I do not do programming Apple does and my damn stocks keep splitting.

Gonna tell me that I do not own Apple, Google, Netflix, Alibaba, Taiwan Semiconductor and several hundred others in funds?

Can't wait for the google antitrust suit

LOL should I overclock my 6 core cpu so my trades happen quicker?

CIAO

Either you are _boasting_ about being a speculator - which, where I grew up, would not be considered something to be proud of - on the contrary it would have been considered a source of embarrassment, to be kept quiet about. Or, more likely, you are one of those deluded types, who thinks dabbling in day-trading makes them a titan of finance. The type who are impressed by Trump's business prowess. That you fondly imagine you "own" those corporations suggests it's the latter.

And are you seriously _boasting_ about how many cores your CPU has? Honestly?
 
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pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
7,617
2,779
136
Speaking of not factual information check out this clown. There's an explosion of fake news like this and trumpanzees are soaking it up. I'm stunned by their desire to believe this fantasy.


The comments on that video are deeply depressing.

Of all social media, youtube seems to be the worst, when it comes to garbage "information". Every crazed conspiracy theorist I encounter will cite YouTube videos as a source.
 

Entangled

Banned
Nov 28, 2020
80
9
11
You did link to misinformation about COVID though. While that might not be denial it’s something adjacent to it.
You are allowed to have your opinion and I am allowed to have mine.

I believe in God, many say that this is misinformation, and I do not care what others believe

Fear is awful and unfortunately many are committing suicide.

Do they matter?
 

Entangled

Banned
Nov 28, 2020
80
9
11
Either you are _boasting_ about being a speculator - which, where I grew up, would not be considered something to be proud of - on the contrary it would have been considered a source of embarrassment, to be kept quiet about. Or, more likely, you are one of those deluded types, who thinks dabbling in day-trading makes them a titan of finance. The type who are impressed by Trump's business prowess. That you fondly imagine you "own" those corporations suggests it's the latter.

And are you seriously _boasting_ about how many cores your CPU has? Honestly?
LOL if you understood the market, then you would know that day traders do not see their shares split nor does it matter when they do for a day trader.

Apple - 40 Year Stock Split History | AAPL | MacroTrends

When GOOG gets broken up I will own 1 share of every new company for every share of GOOG that I hold. Same thing happened what ATT got broken up.

Tip, GOOG is almost $1800.00 per share and people are still buying, so buy now
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
71,105
20,755
136
You are allowed to have your opinion and I am allowed to have mine.
Do you think adding estimates of non-confirmed cases to one figure and not adding estimates of non-confirmed deaths to the second figure is an honest and viable way to calculate the death rate? If yes, why? If not, is it not misinformation?

I believe in God, many say that this is misinformation, and I do not care what others believe
Saying you believe in god is very clearly your opinion. Saying as much is not misinformation.

Fear is awful and unfortunately many are committing suicide.

Do they matter?
Claims of increased suicide rates due to COVID prevention measures are at best, disputed. There is now considerable evidence it has had no effect on suicides.

Regardless, that doesn’t get you off the hook for spreading misinformation earlier.
 

Entangled

Banned
Nov 28, 2020
80
9
11
Do you think adding estimates of non-confirmed cases to one figure and not adding estimates of non-confirmed deaths to the second figure is an honest and viable way to calculate the death rate? If yes, why? If not, is it not misinformation?


Saying you believe in god is very clearly your opinion. Saying as much is not misinformation.


Claims of increased suicide rates due to COVID prevention measures are at best, disputed. There is now considerable evidence it has had no effect on suicides.

Regardless, that doesn’t get you off the hook for spreading misinformation earlier.
When at least 80% do not have symptoms and are not tested, yes including all effected is the best way to assess the real danger of the disease.

So you are in denial of suicides related to covid, the lockdowns and unemployment. Why?

Lockdown Suicides on the Rise | National Review
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/lockdown-suicides-on-the-rise/
In Albany, Ga., Doughtery County coroner Michael Fowler claimed that suicides have increased during the pandemic. With 11 or 12 suicides in 2020 so far — the county's typical average for an ...

Head of CDC Admits Lockdown Killing Way More Americans ...
https://redstate.com/michael_thau/2020/07/27/head-of-cdc-lockdown-suicides-drug-ods-killing-way-more-americans-than-covid-n248959
Let that sink in. Even Redfield admits lockdowns are now killing at least two times the number of Americans as COVID-19. Dozens of media outlets ran stories on his talk the very same day. But some, like the Washington Post, neglected to even mention this appalling disclosure. Among those that did report that Redfield and Fauci's cure is now ...
COVID-19 Linked to Rising Suicide Rates Among Teens
https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/09/29/covid-19-linked-to-rising-suicide-rates-among-teens/
Inasmuch as 8 out of 10 COVID-19-related deaths are ... the onset of the nationwide lockdowns. Between March and June, suicide risk rose sharply for ... increased risk of teen suicide, being able ...
Lockdown Suicide Data Reveal Predictable Tragedy - AIER
https://www.aier.org/article/lockdown-suicide-data-reveal-predictable-tragedy/
Whether it is the direct unemployment effect or the potential poverty produced from the economic shutdown that leads to greater suicides, an increase from the 48,344 suicides and 1,400,000 suicide attempts in the US in 2018 should give decision-makers pause during their response to this pandemic. That article created in me a sense of dread.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
71,105
20,755
136
When at least 80% do not have symptoms and are not tested, yes including all effected is the best way to assess the real danger of the disease.
You did not answer my question - do you think including estimates in one half of the equation but not the other is honest and valid? If so, why? If not, can you acknowledge you are spreading misinformation?

So you are in denial of suicides related to covid, the lockdowns and unemployment. Why?

Lockdown Suicides on the Rise | National Review
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/lockdown-suicides-on-the-rise/
In Albany, Ga., Doughtery County coroner Michael Fowler claimed that suicides have increased during the pandemic. With 11 or 12 suicides in 2020 so far — the county's typical average for an ...

Head of CDC Admits Lockdown Killing Way More Americans ...
https://redstate.com/michael_thau/2020/07/27/head-of-cdc-lockdown-suicides-drug-ods-killing-way-more-americans-than-covid-n248959
Let that sink in. Even Redfield admits lockdowns are now killing at least two times the number of Americans as COVID-19. Dozens of media outlets ran stories on his talk the very same day. But some, like the Washington Post, neglected to even mention this appalling disclosure. Among those that did report that Redfield and Fauci's cure is now ...
COVID-19 Linked to Rising Suicide Rates Among Teens
https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/09/29/covid-19-linked-to-rising-suicide-rates-among-teens/
Inasmuch as 8 out of 10 COVID-19-related deaths are ... the onset of the nationwide lockdowns. Between March and June, suicide risk rose sharply for ... increased risk of teen suicide, being able ...
Lockdown Suicide Data Reveal Predictable Tragedy - AIER
https://www.aier.org/article/lockdown-suicide-data-reveal-predictable-tragedy/
Whether it is the direct unemployment effect or the potential poverty produced from the economic shutdown that leads to greater suicides, an increase from the 48,344 suicides and 1,400,000 suicide attempts in the US in 2018 should give decision-makers pause during their response to this pandemic. That article created in me a sense of dread.
I’m not in denial of anything, I’m telling you the current state of the evidence.

If you’re interested in actual medical research on the topic from a credible, nonpartisan source you can read some here:


Broadly speaking it says the evidence so far in countries like the US shows no meaningful change in suicide rates. If anything so far it looks like suicides have gone DOWN, but this could be transient and we need to be vigilant because that will not necessarily hold true long term.

If you look at your links they are all from extreme right wing sources with a reputation for dishonesty in the service of right wing activism. Oddly enough you’re a great example of someone who is no longer relying on actual facts to form your opinions, just like the topic says.

I hope that you’re able to see your sources have nothing but contempt for you and your intelligence because they consistently lie to you. I mean this seriously. You don’t have to go along with it though, you can reject these biased sources telling you comforting lies.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,654
13,734
136
You did link to misinformation about COVID though. While that might not be denial it’s something adjacent to it.
It's a perfect example of what the OP is talking about. The poster in question firmly believes he can just decide whether he had covid or not independently of any scientific evidence at all. "We were sick. We got well. Must have been the covid." Plus links to various crackpots & Woo merchants to prove his point.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
71,105
20,755
136
It's a perfect example of what the OP is talking about. The poster in question firmly believes he can just decide whether he had covid or not independently of any scientific evidence at all. "We were sick. We got well. Must have been the covid." Plus links to various crackpots & Woo merchants to prove his point.
To me the telling part is when he linked ultra right wing advocacy groups as his evidence.

It really is exactly what the OP was talking about - I have no doubt this guy thinks those ultra right wing sources are real evidence and doesn’t realize they are lying to him and everyone else. What do you do when people can’t tell that they are being lied to?
 
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alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
11,932
1,888
126
Speaking of not factual information check out this clown. There's an explosion of fake news like this and trumpanzees are soaking it up. I'm stunned by their desire to believe this fantasy.

i'm not playing that video, nor do i suggest anyone else does either, they aren't getting my time/money.

but i will check out the stats and that channel has 720k subscribers and 180 Million total views, scary stuff indeed.

trump was just a tumor, unfortunately the cancer remains.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
6,435
4,930
136
i'm not playing that video, nor do i suggest anyone else does either, they aren't getting my time/money.

but i will check out the stats and that channel has 720k subscribers and 180 Million total views, scary stuff indeed.

trump was just a tumor, unfortunately the cancer remains.
Exactly this. Trump was just an outward sign.

This isn't a Trump problem, it's a Republican problem.

It's not year 4 of the Trump administration, it's year 40 of the Reagan Revolution.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,110
3,155
126
A

A cold last for days to a week and you have the symptoms 24 hours a day and the symptoms that you do have with a cold overlap each other. Over the 4 days I had perhaps 10 hours of symptoms mostly stomach pain.
Duration does not make it worse. How many people die from Colds?
 

Entangled

Banned
Nov 28, 2020
80
9
11
Duration does not make it worse. How many people die from Colds?
LOL are you aware that the common cold is typically the rhinovirus or the coronavirus

Again covid did not make any member of my family ill to the point that we even took a Tylenol. But then this is the case with 80 to 85 percent of those who catch it. Now are you going to call me a denier for saying that I had covid?
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,110
3,155
126
LOL are you aware that the common cold is typically the rhinovirus or the coronavirus

Again covid did not make any member of my family ill to the point that we even took a Tylenol. But then this is the case with 80 to 85 percent of those who catch it. Now are you going to call me a denier for saying that I had covid?
I am saying that in no way is Covid less concerning than a Cold. Over 250k Americans have died from Covid in the last 10 months and that number looks likely to hit 400k by the time Vaccines have been widely distributed.
 

Meghan54

Diamond Member
Oct 18, 2009
9,761
2,634
136
LOL are you aware that the common cold is typically the rhinovirus or the coronavirus

Again covid did not make any member of my family ill to the point that we even took a Tylenol. But then this is the case with 80 to 85 percent of those who catch it. Now are you going to call me a denier for saying that I had covid?
So you tested positive when exactly?
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,612
4,157
136
There is no mask debate, it is established science that wearing a mask is the best practice.

The problem in the USA, up until recently, is that society has been too polite with people acting out of a belief system with no basis in science, nor reason. Those folks no longer get a "free pass" for their quaint cultural /religious beliefs when it comes to exposing the rest of us to harm. Keep your religion to yourself, in your private, personal life. You don't have the right to infect the rest of us.
The Supreme Court says otherwise.
 

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