How can a peace loving Christian NOT support gun control?

[Malak]

There was once a day on these forums when there were posters here - sufficiently intelligent and independent in thought - to both understand this and argue this.

I do understand it. The truth in your statement is exactly why guns are so dangerous. Nobody is safe with one.

 

[Triumph]

I do understand it. The truth in your statement is exactly why guns are so dangerous. Nobody is safe with one.

Nobody is safe with a car.

 

[Vic]

I do understand it. The truth in your statement is exactly why guns are so dangerous. Nobody is safe with one.

But there is no way to make everyone not have one. In fact, all anti-gun laws actually do is ensure the rights of one group of people to own guns in order to make sure that another group of people does not own guns (which incidentally, it can only try but never succeed at). In my mind, this kind of situation is known as tyranny.

 

[Malak]

But there is no way to make everyone not have one. In fact, all anti-gun laws actually do is ensure the rights of one group of people to own guns in order to make sure that another group of people does not own guns (which incidentally, it can only try but never succeed at). In my mind, this kind of situation is known as tyranny.

Your absolutely right. But I don't try to change people's lives with laws. That is how all governments fail. I prefer to just change their mind, if possible.

 

[Malak]

What if killing someone was unavoidable?

My limitless imagination fails to find any instance where this could occur.

 

[SparkyJJO]

But guns are not designed to defend or protect you. They do not stop you from getting hurt in anyway. Guns are only designed to inflict damage. So you have chosen to utilize a means of hurting or even killing someone instead of more appropriate defenses that would not be so lethal. Not to mention avoiding the possibility of accidental death.

If someone is coming to kill me or my family (I'm single right now but don't plan on staying that way), I'm not going to stand back and let them do so. What am I supposed to use to prevent them? I'm almost 6 foot tall but weigh next to nothing. I'm not a physically fit person. Even if I was, if the perpetrator was armed, what good what physical fitness do me if he could shoot me at range? :\

As far as accidental death, yeah, it could happen, but that could happen every day to me when I'm driving that 110 mile round trip to work and back, and much more likely out on the highway too than by a gun. Common sense and training with a gun greatly reduces the chance of an accident with one (only point where you intend to shoot, or point at the ground with you finger off the trigger and the safety on, for example).

Gun control, in general, is a horribly flawed notion too. All it does is disarm the law-abiding citizens. The bad guys aren't gonna give a crap whether a firearm is illegal or not. In fact, I'd bet they'd love gun control to be the norm - a disarmed populous is a much easier target.

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

My limitless imagination fails to find any instance where this could occur.

Then you are naive.

 

[Vic]

Your absolutely right. But I don't try to change people's lives with laws. That is how all governments fail. I prefer to just change their mind, if possible.

Good luck with that.

 

[Malak]

Can someone point to any specific Christian doctrine forbids any form of violence? Again, I state the OP original is based off a flawed one.

The doctrine of love, the cornerstone of the Christian faith. It is the #1 topic in the new testament.

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

The doctrine of love, the cornerstone of the Christian faith. It is the #1 topic in the new testament.

True, but that does not exclude the use of violence to defend yourself or your family.

 

[monovillage]

Malak, i'm glad you're here to tell me how to worship, what i should believe in and how to conduct my life.

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

Right, because no has a right to express his opinion. </sarcasm>

 

[Fear No Evil]

The doctrine of love, the cornerstone of the Christian faith. It is the #1 topic in the new testament.

What greater show of love is there than to take the life of another to defend someone from death or serious harm?

 

[shira]

Religion = Faith

You don't have one without the other.

I don't agree.

I believe the sun will rise each morning. I don't believe I have a soul independent of my body. You might say I have "faith" that these things are true. But to call this "faith" the same as religion makes both "religion" and "faith" meaningless terms.

 

[LunarRay]

The doctrine of love, the cornerstone of the Christian faith. It is the #1 topic in the new testament.

The New Testament tells us that to love our neighbor is as important as Loving God himself... because with love in your heart you cannot have hate... But not everyone has love in their hearts and some have so much hate that they'd seek to destroy what they feel in themselves by destroying another... They are cowards!
If I had the Opportunity to terminate such a person's bent regarding the termination of another person, I'd do that without a thought. That might extend to termination of the person... To me that is termination of evil... Evil is as evil does, it seems to me. I am not compelled to love evil nor commanded by God to love evil.
The terms used in the Testament... Neighbor and etc have meaning and context. Jesus is said to have rid the soul of folks possessed of evil.. He tolerated evil cuz it lives here... but by no means did he embrace it...

 

[shira]

The New Testament tells us that to love our neighbor is as important as Loving God himself... because with love in your heart you cannot have hate... But not everyone has love in their hearts and some have so much hate that they'd seek to destroy what they feel in themselves by destroying another... They are cowards!
If I had the Opportunity to terminate such a persons bent regarding the termination of another person, I'd do that without a thought. That might extend to termination of the person... To me that is termination of evil... Evil is as evil does, it seems to me. I am not compelled to love evil nor commanded by God to love evil.
The terms used in the Testament... Neighbor and etc have meaning and context. Jesus is said to have rid the soul of folks possessed of evil.. He tolerated evil cuz it lives here... but by no means did he embrace it...

I don't know that they're necessarily cowards. Some of those suicide bombers must be pretty darned brave to carry out their missions.

Funny how, in the movies, when the lead knowingly sacrifices himself to save everyone else, he's a hero (think Bruce Willis in "Armageddon"). Suicide bombers think they're fighting for a hundreds of millions of other Muslims. Sort of hypocritical to call them cowards.

 

[Colt45]

This thread as strayed a bit off topic...

Can someone point to any specific Christian doctrine forbids any form of violence? Again, I state the OP original is based off a flawed one.

Mennonites, Quakers, et al, generally follow the non-resistance way. I think this mostly comes from the sermon on the mount.

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

following that is the part about not hating enemies:

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Of course these are very difficult things to do as humans, it's hard to forgive, and also to resist violence. I suppose that's why a lot of Christians don't follow the above, it's hard; But it's what Christ taught....

I suppose it's a lot easier to say ten hail mary's and continue holding grudges on people that have wronged you, eh?

 

[LunarRay]

I don't know that they're necessarily cowards. Some of those suicide bombers must be pretty darned brave to carry out their missions.

Funny how, in the movies, when the lead knowingly sacrifices himself to save everyone else, he's a hero (think Bruce Willis in "Armageddon"). Suicide bombers think they're fighting for a hundreds of millions of other Muslims. Sort of hypocritical to call them cowards.

Sorry, I mean 'coward' in the context of not facing the reality of the hate that causes their actions... the internal that they hate they refuse to address... They are cowards! It takes bravery to address the issues within...

Yes, indeed! Bravery is from within and the actions of the folks you mentioned are Brave. Well, let me say that bravery occurs with no notion of reward, imo.. so if a dude runs into a group and blows up believing he's going to get a reward.. then he's not brave.. it is a quid pro quo... again, imo..

 

[sandorski]

I don't agree.

I believe the sun will rise each morning. I don't believe I have a soul independent of my body. You might say I have "faith" that these things are true. But to call this "faith" the same as religion makes both "religion" and "faith" meaningless terms.

You know the sun will "rise". It has nothing to do with Faith.

 

[LunarRay]

You know the sun will "rise". It has nothing to do with Faith.

Dad gum semantics...
I know the sun did rise and I've faith it will do so again... (belief with out proof?)

 

[classy]

The OP is right. But here is how the two have been linked. You have the goof balls on the right who babble all day about how righteuos and holy they are, which they are not. So to the rest of world they put forth this distorted lie of what a christian is. So when they rally for their weapons and violent behavior which is not even close to the mind of God, most people link the two together. But the truth is most of these so called gun owners who claim to be christians, are just gun owners. Christ is not in them and never has been. They are false believers.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

And if I am dead, why will that matter? Would it have been better that I killed the intruder? I fail to see why. Do you think some people deserve to die more than others? Therein lies the fault, a need to inflict judgement as you see fit.

Guns have no place in Christianity.

You skirted my point. If I am intent on harming you and your family, and you do not protect your family you have aided evil in harming them. You could have prevented it, yet without citing any evidence you claim that being a Christian means you aren't allowed to stop a torture, rape and murder.

Show me in the Bible where it says "Thou shalt let thy family be murdered for my sake".

Christianity isn't pacifism.

&#8216;Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father,
and a daughter against her mother,
and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
and one&#8217;s foes will be members of one&#8217;s own household.

Christ knew that his teachings and society would result in conflict, sometimes violent. He did it anyway.

If you were to say that Christianity places a tremendous moral burden on those who practice it not to support murder or a farce like Iraq, I would agree.

Sacrificing those you love in clear and present danger? Show us where that's in the Bible.

 

[Carmen813]

What greater show of love is there than to take the life of another to defend someone from death or serious harm?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9HdA1Rzoas

 

[iGas]

You can get further with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word. [Capone]

 

[Malak]

True, but that does not exclude the use of violence to defend yourself or your family.

If there are perfectly capable ways of protecting your family without violence, why not use them? Or at the very least, non-lethal means. I am not in any way saying you should not protect your family. Using a gun means you believe hurting the other person as much as possible is the only way to protect someone, and that is not love.