How are we going to fix America's broadband problems?

[videogames101]

Originally posted by: ed21x
DSL has been improving and coming down in price as well.

no? rofl...

 

[13Gigatons]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: 13Gigatons

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: 13Gigatons
Everything in America basically sucks because CORPORATIONS are greedy and the government is CORRUPT.

Anytime monopolies exist they should be broken up because they hurt the overall progress.

The majority of people with broadband have a choice. There is no monopoly only competition.

It is this competition that is improving access and speeds. Which is the way it is supposed to be instead of big gubment paying for it all.

America INVENTED telecommunications and The Internet. Our infrastructure is just older.

Yeah right and if someone offered REAL competition to AT&T they would run to the government and have them shutdown. The politicians are bought and sold and do the Corporations bidding!

Your really naive if you think we have REAL competition in Telcom.

*Snicker*, I've been working in it for quite a long time. It is about as cut throat competitive as they come. Prices have continually gone down at a pretty drastic rate.

The battle between cable and telecom is just more proof of this.

Yes but we really need is a National Plan for Broadband like other countries and we don't have one because Cable and Telco wouldn't be able to profit as much.

I still don't understand why Americans like Large monopolies controlling everything.

 

[alkemyst]

Because American monopolies use america's freedoms to profit excessively and don't think so much on a society level as a 'me' level.

You can see this in different nationalities work ethics and what a 'worker' feels is a good job vs lazy one.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: MichaelD

Originally posted by: senseamp
I live in Silicon Valley, the supposed tech hub of the world, I am about a mile from Apple's campus, and the fastest DSL I can get is 768 kbps, and even that with CRC errors. Otherwise it would be 384 kbps.
It's quite pathetic that AT&T is still using the old too far from central office line, as if they cannot put a repeater station somewhere closer. It's like they don't care if they compete or not. Don't be surprised if other countries lead us on broadband centric technologies, simply because we have too many entrenched monopolies controlling the pipes.

Best post in this thread so far. 100% TRUE. "Making things better", i.e. customer service has pretty much been dead in America for a long time now.

Another note: I don't know the exact price, but I highly doubt it costs Verizon $1K to run a piece of fiber to a house. When you buy fiber by the 1000ft roll, the price goes down drastically. Now, to make the intial run into a neighborhood probably isn't cheap. But to run some fiber from a switch/patch panel a few blocks away? That's more time than money.

and how many feet are in ONE mile? 5280. and lets say you have to cover the state of PA.. about 300x150miles, IIRC.. that's a lot of fvckin fiber.

it's all well and good until you look at how much you *actually* have to lay down. 1000 feet might not be much, but 1,000,000 feet is a LOT more expensive, regardless of discounts.

Also - the labor is the biggest piece of the pie, not the cost of the fiber. Fiber is cheap. Not to mention the gear to light it up.

Even gopher proof fiber is relatively cheap.

Esp with union workers. As a network tech often I have to work side by side with union laborers.

For instance on one job site we were not allowed to even plug anything in the network closet without the electrician doing it.

Union workers I have found exploit the fact that every job site is usually new so even with the GPS they show up late, get lost coming from lunch as well. They average about 4 hours of work a day seriously.

On top of that a one-person job usually has 3 coming out, all of which you need to pay for.

That is part of the problem. You have Joe Dirt making $75-100k a year when a bag boy at the grocery could do exactly what he did in a year.

Add this in to the fact that in a union you have to wait for pay...even if you are the best you have to put time in to move to the next level. All the while paying union dues.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: 13Gigatons
Yes but we really need is a National Plan for Broadband like other countries and we don't have one because Cable and Telco wouldn't be able to profit as much.

I still don't understand why Americans like Large monopolies controlling everything.

There have been numerous bills and acts to do such a thing, however they are flawed and don't really address it because they're too socialist in nature. Even now there is a tax on your broadband access to help fund rural reach. And as I've already pointed out it is the competition between cable and telco that is fueling better and better services for less cost. That's the beauty of it.

Other countries have a single large monopoly controlling everything even much more, except the gubment is either the monopoloy or enables a single entitiy.

So don't take from my paycheck or services any more taxes, the market will work itself out. Telecom is already taxed out the wazoo, don't need more - all that does is drive up prices.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: indamixx99
Yeah there's no way Japan would have 300-500Mbps for regular residential customers.

I'm thinking some of these countries have government funded programs set in place to upgrade and improve their existing telecom infrastructure. There's really nothing like that in this country, while most of our money is going into Iraq.

Thats what we should do... if you want broadband to expand we need to publicize it.
The private industry has no real motivation to move anyhting foreward now.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: indamixx99
Yeah there's no way Japan would have 300-500Mbps for regular residential customers.

I'm thinking some of these countries have government funded programs set in place to upgrade and improve their existing telecom infrastructure. There's really nothing like that in this country, while most of our money is going into Iraq.

Thats what we should do... if you want broadband to expand we need to publicize it.
The private industry has no real motivation to move anyhting foreward now.

You have got to be kidding. Are there really people that believe this?

 

[KeithP]

The report linked by two of the articles was conducted by the Communication Workers of America, a union that would have a direct vested interest in additional investment in the telecommunications infrastructure in the United States. In other news, I saw a report released by RJ Reynolds that says cigarette smoking isn't addictive and doesn't cause any adverse health effects.

As others have pointed out, population density in the US will be a problem in regards to getting super fast broadband to everyone. Plus the fact that many people simply don't need or want it. Maybe when the analog TV spectrum gets auctioned off we will see some additional wireless offerings.

That being said, telecommunication bills in the United States are pretty much bought and sold by the industry and our elected officials. If they don't want it, we pretty much won't get it regardless of how many studies, biased or otherwise, are conducted.

-KeithP

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: indamixx99
Yeah there's no way Japan would have 300-500Mbps for regular residential customers.

I'm thinking some of these countries have government funded programs set in place to upgrade and improve their existing telecom infrastructure. There's really nothing like that in this country, while most of our money is going into Iraq.

Thats what we should do... if you want broadband to expand we need to publicize it.
The private industry has no real motivation to move anyhting foreward now.

You have got to be kidding. Are there really people that believe this?

As everyone so frequently pointed out... if it isnt profitable to put broadband in a remote area where only 1-2 people would get it...why should they?

The same is true of basic cable TV service... there are still remote regions which do not have service.

The public sector doesnt have these constraints...everyone pays taxes, everyone gets served. I always believed that all public utilities should be publicized.
Water / Electric
Communications (Telephone, Cell phone, Internet, & TV)
Transportation

As long as the industry is privatized, you will never get 100% service to the entire nation.

 

[spidey07]

That would only stiffle inovation and advancement. With no competition there is zero incentive. Russia figured this out. This is America, not some communist country. Let's keep it that way.

There are plenty of rural areas that don't have running water and a whole lot more that don't have sewage. So it's not a valid comparison. Broadband isn't necessary to live.

 

[IGBT]

Originally posted by: spidey07
That would only stiffle inovation and advancement. With no competition there is zero incentive. Russia figured this out. This is America, not some communist country. Let's keep it that way.

There are plenty of rural areas that don't have running water and a whole lot more that don't have sewage. So it's not a valid comparison. Broadband isn't necessary to live.

..same thing with TV. many cry and complain about poor service and ever increasing rates. shut the thing off it's only TV or watch a DVD.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: 13Gigatons
Everything in America basically sucks because CORPORATIONS are greedy and the government is CORRUPT.

Anytime monopolies exist they should be broken up because they hurt the overall progress.

The majority of people with broadband have a choice. There is no monopoly only competition.

It is this competition that is improving access and speeds. Which is the way it is supposed to be instead of big gubment paying for it all.

America INVENTED telecommunications and The Internet. Our infrastructure is just older.

The majority of people I know with broadband have no choice.

Where I grew up with my parents, we had (and they still have) no broadband choice.

When I lived in an apartment complex, I had no choice. Where I live now (graduate housing), I have no choice.

There are countless regions where people have no choice over their broadband options due to contracts between broadband providers allowing monopolies to exist in certain blocks.

There are plenty of regions in America with complete broadband monopolies, especially (surprisingly) urban areas. I've lived in several of them.

Also, America did not invent the internet. It was invented at CERN. It's always hilarious when people say that America invented the internet.

 

[spidey07]

Eeezee,

I think you need to use facts instead of "people I know" or your own personal situation. The majority with access to broadband have a choice. Just do a little googling. Also - YOU CHOSE to live in that apartment or housing. Your CHOICE. When you have your own property then maybe you can complain.

 

[RESmonkey]

OMG what gives? Imagine the torrents if everyone had fast up and down speeds. You could DL a gig+ in minutes!

I want moar on this. MOAR I say!

 

[LeetViet]

Canada isn't better off than America for broadband.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Also, America did not invent the internet. It was invented at CERN. It's always hilarious when people say that America invented the internet.

Al Gore invented the internet, noob.

You will have no choice but to agree with that statement as well since you allow everyone else to make decisions for you.

 

[13Gigatons]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: 13Gigatons
Everything in America basically sucks because CORPORATIONS are greedy and the government is CORRUPT.

Anytime monopolies exist they should be broken up because they hurt the overall progress.

The majority of people with broadband have a choice. There is no monopoly only competition.

It is this competition that is improving access and speeds. Which is the way it is supposed to be instead of big gubment paying for it all.

America INVENTED telecommunications and The Internet. Our infrastructure is just older.

The majority of people I know with broadband have no choice.

Where I grew up with my parents, we had (and they still have) no broadband choice.

When I lived in an apartment complex, I had no choice. Where I live now (graduate housing), I have no choice.

There are countless regions where people have no choice over their broadband options due to contracts between broadband providers allowing monopolies to exist in certain blocks.

There are plenty of regions in America with complete broadband monopolies, especially (surprisingly) urban areas. I've lived in several of them.

Also, America did not invent the internet. It was invented at CERN. It's always hilarious when people say that America invented the internet.

No one person invented the Internet as we know it today. However, certain major figures contributed major breakthroughs:

Leonard Kleinrock was the first to publish a paper about the idea of packet switching, which is essential to the Internet. He did so in 1961. Packet switching is the idea that packets of data can be "routed" from one place to another based on address information carried in the data, much like the address on a letter. Packet switching replaces the older concept of "circuit switching," in which an actual electrical circuit is established all the way from the source to the destination. Circuit switching was the idea behind traditional telephone exchanges.

J.C.R. Licklider was the first to describe an Internet-like worldwide network of computers, in 1962. He called it the "Galactic Network."

Larry G. Roberts created the first functioning long-distance computer networks in 1965 and designed the Advanced Research Projects Agency Network (ARPANET), the seed from which the modern Internet grew, in 1966.

Bob Kahn and Vint Cerf invented the Transmission Control Protocol (TCP) which moves data on the modern Internet, in 1972 and 1973. If any two people "invented the Internet," it was Kahn and Cerf - but they have publicly stated that "no one person or group of people" invented the Internet.

Radia Perlman invented the spanning tree algorithm in the 1980s. Her spanning tree algorithm allows efficient bridging between separate networks. Without a good bridging solution, large-scale networks like the Internet would be impractical.

 

[LtPage1]

My parents have had 10mb fiber up/down for 6 or 7 years now.

 

[13Gigatons]

Originally posted by: LtPage1
My parents have had 10mb fiber up/down for 6 or 7 years now.

What Company and what country?

 

[maxster]

Japan wins while we lose.

 

[pontifex]

actually, haven't speeds in the US been increasing, albeit slowly, over the past few years?
about 5 years ago, all i could get was dial-up. i'm up to 3 mbps dsl now.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: LtPage1
My parents have had 10mb fiber up/down for 6 or 7 years now.

7 years? at what cost to them/location.

Percieve the power of google here: First link, who invented the internet

I wouldn't put this up as a credible source however and much of the 'inventors' differ from what viewpoint one considers.

IMHO LAN technology no more 'invented' WAN technology than the first CPU giving birth to gaming, online shopping, office productivity, et al.

Those that assembled ARPANet and MILNet and then bridged the gaps between them started the ball rolling.

 

[oiprocs]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
dude, some of us live in the sticks and are lucky to have anything better than dial up

You have dial up??

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: pontifex
actually, haven't speeds in the US been increasing, albeit slowly, over the past few years?
about 5 years ago, all i could get was dial-up. i'm up to 3 mbps dsl now.

Of course they've been increasing; why would they decrease or stay the same?

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Eeezee,

I think you need to use facts instead of "people I know" or your own personal situation. The majority with access to broadband have a choice. Just do a little googling. Also - YOU CHOSE to live in that apartment or housing. Your CHOICE. When you have your own property then maybe you can complain.

About 33% of non-homeless people in the US in 2006 rented their household (whether there's an apartment, house, etc). That's according to the US Census Bureau Fact Sheet Text

The FCC recently tried to ban exclusive service contracts (including exclusive broadband service contracts) with owners of apartment buildings. If you've lived in several apartment complexes like I and others I know have, then you know that this is prevalent; it's not as though there are only a few apartment complexes out there that have this problem.

Even if only 1% of Americans don't have a broadband choice, that's 3 million people! I agree, the majority of people in the US do have a choice, but millions of people do not.

When I went looking for my last apartment complex, every single one had only ONE choice for broadband; I either went with that one choice or I didn't have internet at all. I had no choice. You are wrong. I suggest you actually take a step back and ask yourself if it's intelligent to suggest that I CHOSE to live in an apartment with no broadband choice. What else could I do, live on the street? On a downtown campus there aren't any houses nearby (which would have a choice) and all of the apartment complexes had the same broadband provider without alternatives. Are you seriously going to sit there and tell me that you believe such a situation is impossible? It is not only possible, it is a reality.