How are voter laws racist?

[thraashman]

You suck.

He's trying to make up for the lack of racism from Spatially... He's certainly filling that gap well I'd say.

 

[EagleKeeper]

And what supporting documentation do they require to sign up for the free ID? Say a Birth Certificate for example? Any ideas on how many blacks born during say the 20's-60's into poverty throughout the south were born at home without any formal registrations done to actually get a birth certificate?

And how many of those have found that they are able to drive and/or register to vote? Many blacks also served in the military; Uncle issues an ID. Anyone born after 1940 is probably working - where did they get ID to provide legal work status?

Again with the excuses.
The amount of blacks after WWII that were born at home in minuscule. Have they registered - how - no legal document of them exists?

The ID is just to ensure that the name matches the photo which matches the registered voter list. How did they get on the list in the first place?

 

[TheVrolok]

You suck.

I would say it's mind boggling that he hasn't been banned yet, but this is AT 2013, gotta keep the numbers up.

 

[spacejamz]

The ACA itself does not provide coverage. The coverage comes from a private entity and IS NOT A CONSTITUTIONALLY GUARANTEED RIGHT!

Stop dodging the question...

How are these people supposed to get health care coverage if they can't prove who they are? If they only way they can do that is with a driver's license, that is racist according to definition of those who oppose vote laws...

 

[fskimospy]

Minorities may not have ID; how then are they able to register to vote in the first place?

Inconvenience as an excuse? Unless they are a shut-in; they can get themselves to an approved ID place in plenty of time. Also, time to collect any documents that were used to register in the first place.

Voting is a privilege; put some effort beside lip service.

For the shut-ins and a family/social service member can not assist them; then make it so they can request someone to come and verify them. But if they are shut in- how can they get to the polling booth. Absentee ballot seems likely.

ID is not necessary to register in many places. Additionally, voting is not a privilege. While it is not an explicitly enumerated right in the Constitution, the ability to vote has wide ranging Constitutional protections associated with it.

Interesting you mention absentee ballots, as they are both the primary means of individual voter fraud and are totally unaffected by new GOP voter laws. This is because the GOP believes absentee ballots favor them.

 

[blankslate]

I personally oppose voter ID laws because they solve a problem that doesn't exist. In-person voter fraud (the kind of voter fraud that IDs would solve) is extremely rare; depending on what sources you look at, it's happened, at most, a few dozen times in the last decade. Obviously, any voter fraud is bad, but a few dozen times in a decade is so exceedingly rare given how many millions of votes have been cast in that time that you realize in-person voter fraud has literally no influence on elections.

The 24th Amendment to the Constitution guarantees citizens the right to vote without having to pay any tax; if ID is required to vote, the Constitution dictates that it must be provided free of charge (which means that it comes out of taxpayer money). I, personally, don't want my taxpayer money being spent to buy millions of IDs for people when the problem it seeks to correct has absolutely no influence on elections. It seems like a colossal waste of resources that could be better used in hundreds of other ways (the highest on the list being right back into my pocket).

Pretty much that.


If the voter laws that were voted up more than 12 months before an election rather than a few months and required public service announcements on television and huge billboard signs to let the general public know about it I'd be less opposed to them...

However, when a vote on one is taken and the legislator says this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8

then for some reason I have to question the motivation behind passing such laws...

call me crazy for taking the guy at his word... too bad for him though given the results I suppose.

 

[SparkyJJO]

I love it. Republicans think everyone should have to have an ID on them at all times and have all these requirements of government issued IDs to vote, but suggest to them a national gun registry and they go fucking bonkers.

There is a huge difference between carrying a simple ID with you when you go to vote (and anytime you drive you are REQUIRED to have your license with you anyway), and having your personal property on a register with the government that would really serve no other purpose but as a handy list in case the government decides to go gun grabbing from law-abiding citizens.

Don't be so ridiculous.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Bottom line requiring a license equals a poll tax, thus somebody who a) can't afford a car so no license or b) are too old or unhealthy to have one tend to get ignored. I understand that the state could provide free ID's but the state would also have to physically get people to the place to recieve such an ID or open up so many that its an easy walking distance.
I agree most of the new voting laws are targeted at reducing minority, poor people and students from voting which are all obvious democratic voting blocks.
Nobody has shown any definate proof that there is massive voter fraud, I know my conservitive buddies are going to disagree but has anyone heard of someone being jailed or fined for voter fraud and I am not looking for some obscure story found on google.

 

[thraashman]

I would say it's mind boggling that he hasn't been banned yet, but this is AT 2013, gotta keep the numbers up.

There are members of this board that I adamantly disagree with and will likely never be on the same side as Matt1970, BoberFett, monovillage plenty of others. But I don't know if I've ever seen any of them post something that I would find vile and offensive at its core or that actually hurt the board. I heavily dislike their views, but they're the opposition to my own view so that's expected.

Posters like nehalem, Anarchist, and Incorruptible hurt the forum itself with their crap and should be removed. But I'm not a mod, so I don't get to make that decision.

I did personally lodge a complaint against one poster who kept necroing month dead threads for a day and another complaint against Darkman when his constant racist posting got out of hand.

 

[Matt1970]

You guys always get the order of argumentation wrong. Before we start discussing how easy it is for people to 'get around town', we should establish that this law actually serves a purpose.

As I asked in another thread, to justify this law you basically need to answer this:

Why do you believe undertaking this action is necessary, what objective are you attempting to accomplish, and why is preventing some legal voters from voting is a worthwhile price to pay to achieve this objective?

Please use empirical evidence to justify your position.

Isn't that what government is all about? Going to monumental lenghts to create a solution to a problem that really only effects less than 1% of the population. Much like assault weapons bans, magazine capacity restrictions. While I may fine the need for a voted ID a little mundane I find the reasons why Democrats think minorities can’t seem to obtain on a little insulting.

 

[fskimospy]

Isn't that what government is all about? Going to monumental lenghts to create a solution to a problem that really only effects less than 1% of the population.

That response doesn't make any sense. Why can't you guys just use empirical evidence to identify a problem and propose a solution that you think will solve that problem? From there it should be easy to justify how it is okay to enact a law that will prevent some legal people from voting.

 

[Matt1970]

There are members of this board that I adamantly disagree with and will likely never be on the same side as Matt1970, BoberFett, monovillage plenty of others. But I don't know if I've ever seen any of them post something that I would find vile and offensive at its core or that actually hurt the board. I heavily dislike their views, but they're the opposition to my own view so that's expected.

Posters like nehalem, Anarchist, and Incorruptible hurt the forum itself with their crap and should be removed. But I'm not a mod, so I don't get to make that decision.

I did personally lodge a complaint against one poster who kept necroing month dead threads for a day and another complaint against Darkman when his constant racist posting got out of hand.

You mentioned me first. That gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside.

 

[spacejamz]

Bottom line requiring a license equals a poll tax, thus somebody who a) can't afford a car so no license or b) are too old or unhealthy to have one tend to get ignored. I understand that the state could provide free ID's but the state would also have to physically get people to the place to recieve such an ID or open up so many that its an easy walking distance.
I agree most of the new voting laws are targeted at reducing minority, poor people and students from voting which are all obvious democratic voting blocks.
Nobody has shown any definate proof that there is massive voter fraud, I know my conservitive buddies are going to disagree but has anyone heard of someone being jailed or fined for voter fraud and I am not looking for some obscure story found on google.

So what it is called when Obmacare requires someone to prove who they are when they apply for coverage?

Isn't Obamacare intended to provide coverage to those who didn't have access before (minorities, poverty level, etc) which according to the the anti-voter laws the ones who won't have a driver's license??

 

[boomerang]

Minorities may not have ID; how then are they able to register to vote in the first place?

How are they able to hold a job? I-9's anyone?

Drive a car?

Fly on a plane?

Fill a prescription?

Rent a car?

Get a cellphone with a plan attached to it?

Social Security - how do they sign up for that?

Laid off. How do they get unemployment? Food stamps?

Medicare, Medicaid?

Get married?

Democrats want people to be able to vote multiple times and they want people who are not eligible to vote to vote. The worst part is that they think they're fooling everybody with their "logic". We know what you're trying to accomplish and we know why you want it. Stop the charade.

 

[thraashman]

You mentioned me first. That gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside.

We are solidly ideologically opposed. And some of your views certainly make me angry. But I don't think you're a bad person and I don't think your posts make P&N a worse place. I revel in discussion and conflict, some posters just make this place worse though. I'm sure I piss a lot of people off too. Sometimes that's intentional what with the whole I revel in conflict thing.

 

[nehalem256]

For the shut-ins and a family/social service member can not assist them; then make it so they can request someone to come and verify them. But if they are shut in- how can they get to the polling booth. Absentee ballot seems likely.

How exactly would the shut-ins be at the polling place?

 

[HomerJS]

Just read that thread about the Daily Show guest, and while I find him to be undeniably "racist" I honestly dont see how voter ID laws and early voting laws only serve to hurt minorities.

I voted in 2012 (I will never vote again) and I didnt really do anything special, just drove to my local high school, showed the girl at the desk my ID and voted. How did that inhibit minorities from voting exactly?

The problem is not with the ID per say. The problem is Republicans are choosing a form of id they know a disproportionate numbers of minorities don't have attempting to skew the demographic of the turnout.

I live in PA. When you walk in poll worker has you sign a register and ***pares it to your signature when you first signed up to vote. What's the problem with that?

If you want to have extra confirmation how about using something almost everyone has a utility bill. It shows your name and address.

Republicans are also eliminating early voting especially Sunday before election, which they know black churches get their people out en-mass right after service.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Here is something support what I said earlier, I'm still waiting to hear from anyone who knows of someone jailed or fined for voter fraud. Let's be honest it really doesn't happen all that much. This is just a distraction we ALL should be focused on removing the amount of money from Politics in general.

oops here is the link:
http://www.today.***/entertainment/...l-resigning-over-offensive-remarks-8C11463044

 

[schneiderguy]

I love it. Republicans think everyone should have to have an ID on them at all times and have all these requirements of government issued IDs to vote, but suggest to them a national gun registry and they go fucking bonkers.

First of all, a national gun registry is not anywhere near the same thing as requiring a state issued ID to vote.

Second, if requiring an ID to buy a gun is not racist against minorities and an infringement upon a constitutional right, neither is requiring an ID to vote.

 

[boomerang]

form of id they know a disproportionate numbers of minorities don't have

Please provide something to back this statement up. As a follow up question, why do minorities disproportionately not have picture ID?

And what's with the asterisks in everybody's posts?

 

[nehalem256]

The problem is not with the ID per say. The problem is Republicans are choosing a form of id they know a disproportionate numbers of minorities don't have attempting to skew the demographic of the turnout.

They are choosing the same form of id that people use for all transactions that require ID.

Do you think the liquor store would accept a college Id?

Republicans are also eliminating early voting especially Sunday before election, which they know black churches get their people out en-mass right after service.

Is there some reason that black people can't vote at the same time white people do?

 

[glenn1]

That response doesn't make any sense. Why can't you guys just use empirical evidence to identify a problem and propose a solution that you think will solve that problem? From there it should be easy to justify how it is okay to enact a law that will prevent some legal people from voting.

If you actually cared about anything other than their votes, people who disagree with these laws would be helping people without IDs to get them for the other potential benefits that would provide. But you don't, so you wont.

 

[boomerang]

I'm still waiting to hear from anyone who knows of someone jailed or fined for voter fraud.

You asked...

Ohio Poll Worker Convicted On Multiple Counts Of Obama-Biased Voter Fraud

Edit: Can't link to anything right now because the forum is turning the letters c o m into asterisks.

 

[fskimospy]

If you actually cared about anything other than their votes, people who disagree with these laws would be helping people without IDs to get them for the other potential benefits that would provide. But you don't, so you wont.

Uhmmm, there are groups that do just that.

How about people stand against stupid laws AND help people get IDs?

Meanwhile, if you actually cared about preventing voter fraud you would be ignoring voter ID laws and cracking down on absentee ballots hardcore. But you don't, so you won't.

It's not like the motives are hard to see in this case.

 

[fskimospy]

You asked...

http://reason.***/****/2013/07/18/ohio-poll-worker-sentenced

lol. As with basically every other example, your example would not have been prevented by voter ID laws.