How are motorcycles legal?

[halik]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: CVSiN

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: CVSiN

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: Oger
More people die in cars than motorcycles, why are cars legal ?

Not as a percentage of people that use them.

total bull crap...
worthless statistic
Cars are way more dangerous than a bike..
there are too many distractions for car drivers.. heaters ACs Stereos TVS car phones...
on a bike you are pretty much forced to pay attention to the road...
PROPERLY Licenced and trained riders are far less likely to get in a wreck than these no load morons with 10k burning a hole in their pocket and wanting to get a 1000CC bike so they can be a starboy...

Bikes are getting a bad rap becasue in the recent years they have become trendy...
therefore every moe larry and curly think they have what it takes to get on a bike and ride...
with thier CAR licence.....

its been said that 80% of the Bikers in Houston alone are Unlicensed and Uninsured...
thats just 1 city...
Most cops I talk to say that most wrecks they clean up are younger riders with no insurance and no Motorcycle Endorsement...

If the USA implemented Bike License laws like Europe and the rest of the word has.. there would be alot less bike accidents..
the way the law works there is you cannot even buy a motorcycle without a license...
and if you do have a license you are restricted by CCs based on your experience level...
only long time riders can get a license that allows access to 750cc+ motorcycles..
this ensures riders are completely trained before allowing them to the Widowmaker sportbikes and large harleys and cruisers...

Im sick and tired of being bashed and targeted by law enforcement mearly becasue I ride a sportbike...
not because of what I have done personally.. but what others do ...
Im sick of paying 500 bucks a year for insurance because of the morons that buy bikes and cant ride and crash into a bus...
or try to run from a cop...

Bikes are safe when ridden responsibly...
I have held a motorcycle License for almost 17 years now.. the only accidents I have ever had are from cars that arnt paying attention and run me off the road casue they never looked in thier mirrors... or are talking on a cell phone or are adjusting thie stereos...
I get close calls on a daily basis from cars that dont look or dont care...

If you want stricter bike licensing write your congressmen.. I have...

Your post is the one that's total bull crap. Yes, you can ride a motorcycle in a safe manner, just like you can drive a car in a safe manner. More people (as a percentage) still die on a motorcycle, like my post says. My post makes no claims about the training or ability of those people that are dying.

Per mile traveled in 1998, a motorcyclist is approximately 16 times more likely to die in a crash than an automobile occupant. And 3x (times) as likely to be injured.

from this page.

Um duh?
we dont have 2 tons ot metal and airbags wrapped around our ass idiot..
of course rwe are more likely to die int he event of a wreck..

moron..
this is just common sence..
i hit soemthing i go flying and die...
no crap...
this has nothing to do with what you posted...
there are VERY few bike wrecks per miles travled compared to the daily clusterfvcks you cage driving idiots casue or are in...

PER MILE a motorcyclist is 16x more likely to die in a crash than someone driving a car.

Sixteen times as many fatalities occur per mile on motorcycles than in cars.

If there were 1 fatal accident for evry 1000 miles driven in a car, then there would be 16 fatal accidents per 1000 miles ridden on a motorcycle.

Do you understand the statistic yet?

and then you take in account the fact that you only use a bike a fraction of the time compared to your car, so the *REAL* risk is nowhere near it. I put about 15k/year on my car and i put 700 miles on my cbr f3 this season.

Accident wise, ober 50% of all bike accidents come from drivers making left turn into the bikes path and as far as fatalities, you're 12x more likely to die in an accident riding a motorcycle than driving a car.

 

[Ausm]

Motorcycle riders are needed to for Organ donation 😉

Ausm

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: CheapArse
If you're going to outlaw anything, should be those tanks...

i.e. excursions

Yes, let's outlaw safer vehicles. :roll:

hook, line, sinker.

As for motorcycles: They're legal because, while dangerous, they don't usually cause much harm to innocent bystanders (with the occasional exception...but mostly a bad motorcycle rider will just cause a dent in someone's car and provide a couple kidneys to society).

Obviously there are other things which also fulfill this criteria, but are still illegal.

My take on it is that there are people who want to ban EVERYTHING. These people are constantly lobbying to government to ban, well, everything, for some reason or another. Most of the time they aren't successful, but unfortunately every once in a while something bad happens and gets publicized, so public opinion temporarily goes against that activity. The ban-freaks take advantage of these opportunities to push legislation through that should never go through.

As for me, I've never smoked weed, and probably never will. However, there's no particular reason why weed should be illegal and alcohol not. In BOTH cases, I would want there to be some "Don't use and drive" laws, but if you want to toke up in your own home, you're not causing anyone any harm.
For other drugs like crystal meth, where people go crazy and start harming others, that should stay very illegal.

For the most part, any activity which causes little to no danger to others, and doesn't cost the state a lot of money, should stay legal IMHO.

 

[Ornery]

Oh God, here comes nested quote hell again... :roll:

But anyway, I've known three people personally who have died on bikes, and none were their fault. Big deal, eh? They're still dead! That said, I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to ride them, anymore than you should be allowed to shoehorn your loved ones into these econobox death traps. Hey, it's your funeral!

I also think helmet and seatbelt laws are BS, except where kids are concerned. Nobody's damn business IMO. As long as you or your insurance company get billed for the ambulance ride, it's fine by me!

 

[thomsbrain]

they shouldn't be banned anymore than any of that other crap. it's no skin off my back if they want to risk theirs.

 

[vi edit]

One other thing is that motorcycle wrecks typically aren't as harming to others as car wrecks. You've got 400 pounds crashing into something instead of 4000 or more pounds. More than likely if a motorcycle collides with another vehicle the driver of that vehicle will survive and the damage is less.

I'm not saying there aren't exceptions, obviously. It's largely a self induced, and assumed risk with *reasonably* minimal impact on the lives of others.

 

[erikistired]

ban everyone and everything. and CVSiN it's hostile idiots like you ranting and raving about people stuck in cages or whatever that make normal people hate tards on bikes. no one cares that you think you're some freedom loving badass flying across the plain on your two wheel dragon.

Accident wise, ober 50% of all bike accidents come from drivers making left turn into the bikes path and as far as fatalities, you're 12x more likely to die in an accident riding a motorcycle than driving a car.

do you have a link to back that up? i saw 46% single vehicle and 54% multi vehicle from above, but that doesn't mean 98% or whatever happened because of drives making left turns into bike paths. i know for a fact that there are quite a few bike riding morons out there who weave in and out of traffic and do wheelies at 80+ mph on the highway, i can't imagine they only make up 2% of multi vehicle accidents. and before you say they are all lumped into single vehicle, i've seen one of these freedom lovers swing around my parents' car when i was a kid and go plowing into a stopped car at a light. i don't think that qualifies as a single vehicle accident, and i doubt it was the only time that it happened.

btw, i don't advocate banning motorcycles, if i didn't have 2 kids i'd have a harley (i know, drinking and boozing before i got on my bike at the bar right?). oh, and when did roger become red dawn? i don't remember him being so crotchity when he had the R in his name.

 

[vi edit]

Oh, and one more comment to feed off my previous point.

I'd *MUCH* rather have a jackass remove himself from the gene pool by doing stupid things on a bike than with a several ton vehicle(assuming it was his stupidity that prompted the darwin award).

If you are going to be wreckless, do it in something less harmful TO ME.

 

[RaiderJ]

AFAIK, most accidents involving motorcycles are not the fault of the motorcyclist. Maybe we should ban all vehicles that aren't motorcycles?

<-- For banning RV's &amp; soccer moms

<-- Has not read this thread

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: Oger
Percentage of cars has nothing to do with his original question, you stop posting.

His reasoning here, people die on motorcycles, we should outlaw them, more people die in cars every year, let's outlaw them and save more lives.

I hate to call you a dumbass, but you can't fvcking read:

Originally posted by: notfred
...I'm not advocating banning motorcycles...

I'm wondering why, in a country in which the government has taken on the job of protecting it's citizens from themselves, they haven't done so with motorcycles.

And you know full well that someone is more likely to be seriously injured while riding a motorycle than driving a car.

exasperating, isn't it? Don't worry, I feel your pain.

 

[The Stigenator]

I have to agree with CVSin on this.. there needs to be more laws for riders being able to buy motorcycles, like those of europe and japan. My local suzuki dealer in LA would not sell a bike to a 20 yr old because he didnt have his licence. Yet the kid apparently went to another dealer and bought it. He died a few weeks later crashing.

I personally know two of the riders who notfred is talking about. Let me say I had my opinion as a long time rider "squashed" because in someone's eyes I was not worthy of listening to. Guy A who had a 600 who later upgraded to a 1000 (RC51) with minimal experience told his roommate to get a 600 too. He also told a few friend with that to go bigger.

In anycase tyler, i remember you're argument of getting an YZF600 or an R6 at one time. You wanted a bike that would be as fast as your car in 0-60 cause if not you're going to be bored. First of all, riding is NOT about going in a straight line and pulling wheelies. Its a lot more complex and back then I told you not to go for an YZF or the R6. Not because you were my roommmate, but as an experienced rider who knows what he is talking about. I am glad you took up mountain biking, a lot safer.

Rule number on in my eyes is never start with a 600cc. If you want to kill yourself and be a stunter like how one of these boys wanted to be, then your writing your own will and it has nothing to do with laws , cause as humans, we are at will to break the laws.. and sometimes we get bitten by them.

I strongly support a law on restricting motorcyclists to lower powered bikes, too bad AMA will probably fight it. I heard the Govenator might be considering this.

Also there needs to be a paragaraph or two on the car dmv manual to look out for motorcyclists, since we share the road and in CA we can share the lane legally.

 

[The Stigenator]

people who want to only show off and be all bling bling shouldnt be in this sport.. they dont know what it means to be a motorcyclist nor do they share the joys of being a motorcyclist.

 

[boyRacer]

Originally posted by: TheGoodGuy
people who want to only show off and be all bling bling shouldnt be in this sport.. they dont know what it means to be a motorcyclist nor do they share the joys of being a motorcyclist.

well the trend seems to be in full swing here in LA... 😕

 

[Cattlegod]

i can't believe you want to ban motorcycles.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

They should ban SUVs or atleast restrict them to people who need them. Sure they may be safer for the driver of the SUV, but they are way more dangerous for other people on the roads. Motorcycles are more dangerous for the people riding them. It's because the motorcyclist isn't making the choice for other people whether to be safe or not that's why there isn't a lot of attempts to ban them.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: hop12

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: mcvickj
I would guess a high percentage of motorcycle accidents are the riders fault. I've seen too many people with a crotch rocket think they are all big and bad and need to go 120+MPH to prove something.

A high percentage of heroin overdoses are the user's fault, but it's still illegal.

Part of the reason heroin and other drugs are illegal are the heath dangers, but another major part is the crime that is involved with drug distribution. Not really a good comparison to motorcycles as I believe they are manufactured legally.

Logical fallacy alert.

The reason there are crimes associated with drug use and distribution is because they are illegal; it is forced underground.

There are crimes associated with motor vehicles, too. Namely the.. *gasp*.. underground reselling of stolen parts.

See the connection? No? You should.

 

[dethman]

i wanted a motorcycle. then i did my month of trauma. never again.

 

[vi edit]

Logical fallacy alert.

The reason there are crimes associated with drug use and distribution is because they are illegal; it is forced underground.

There are crimes associated with motor vehicles, too. Namely the.. *gasp*.. underground reselling of stolen parts.

See the connection? No? You should.

Logical fallacy on your part as well.

By and large, GM/Ford/Toyota/Honda are legal operations in the production of cars. Same goes for the dealerships that sell and service the vehicles. These are all pre-sale operators.

Illicit drug manufactures and pushers are more times than not, murderers, theifs, and money launderers before they even put their "product" on the market. That's before it's even in a buyer's hand.

Comparing the drug industry to car theif and chop shop crooks is erroneous. The closest comparison would be comparing the LEGAL drug industry (ritalin, oxcodone, ect) and people that aquire those drugs through illegal channels and sell them to abusers.

Two VERY different situations.

 

[PushHands]

Originally posted by: TheGoodGuy
I personally know two of the riders who notfred is talking about. Let me say I had my opinion as a long time rider "squashed" because in someone's eyes I was not worthy of listening to. Guy A who had a 600 who later upgraded to a 1000 (RC51) with minimal experience told his roommate to get a 600 too. He also told a few friend with that to go bigger.

I don't visit ATOT much anymore let alone post, but I just have to call buIIshit on this one! For the record, "Guy A" that he's referring to is me. I'm going to break it down to you right now. For the longest time I've tried to be friendly, then nice, and eventually polite to you; and here you are, calling me out behind my back. I'm not pissed because now that I know you better, I realize this is not below you.

Let me say I had my opinion as a long time rider "squashed" because in someone's eyes I was not worthy of listening to.

Wish you could hear yourself speak sometimes. What I've learned from meeting you is that a person's internet persona has absolutely little correlation to who they are in real life because everything is hidden behind a keyboard. Sounds obvious, but 100% of anyone who I consider a friend I have made through actual human contact (except for notfred) so I might not be a "savy of the obvious." In my life, your word is your word.

And you see TheGoodGuy, your word doesn't amount to much after I got to know you. How do you expect anyone to respect your mechanical and motorcycle skills when it all is just smoke that you're blowing out. Come on man, you do not release pressure in order seperate the brake pads by opening the bleed valves, and that's just one example.

You were not there when I went down nor when my friend (whom I recommended a 600) went down, and you don't know the full story. (Have you ever wonder why I don't ask you to go riding any longer?) Only my friend truly knows inside of him what happened on that day, even though he's shared alot of it to me and I have my thoughts on the matter. You are completely clueless on the circumstances and reasons why I went down. And you will never know because I don't respect you enough, as a rider or a person to even use my breadth and describe it to you.

I have my personal beliefs about what consitutes a good beginner bike contingent on the person, riding circumstances and opportunities for mentorship. My opinions I reserve to myself and a select few who I care enough about. But you yap your jaw constantly with the illusion that everything you believe is correct. I realize now that you're really just a kid, and I don't sweat it.

And please don't think you're all that good either. Reflecting back on how you taught me, that she1t was dangerous! I've taken a few people under my wing in the past and their safety has always been my utmost concern; and I do those things that I believe will make them a safer rider instead of yapping away on chat forums trying to prove to others how great I am.

people who want to only show off and be all bling bling shouldnt be in this sport.. they dont know what it means to be a motorcyclist nor do they share the joys of being a motorcyclist.

Your hyprocracy is so self evident. You recall that first night when we went out to the local meet on a Thrs night? You wanted to put on those g4y as5 blue lights on your valve stems. Yes, you preach a good song, but when the sh!t hits the fan, you're no where to be found.

I try to be humble in my riding and admit there's a lot to motorcycling that I don't know yet. That and trying to be a person of my word has allowed me to move forward. There's no need for me to prove anything to you, but I'll tell you this, in 1.5 yrs of riding, I've progressed way further than you have in your, who knows how many, years that you said you have. And I still continue to grow and now have hooked up with a lot of older, more mature, riders, racers, and ex-racers.

You've reached a plateau in your riding because it directly represents where you are as a person and I hope you realize this one day. Next time we run into each other, feel free to not reconginze me.... as I'll be doing the same.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Logical fallacy alert.

The reason there are crimes associated with drug use and distribution is because they are illegal; it is forced underground.

There are crimes associated with motor vehicles, too. Namely the.. *gasp*.. underground reselling of stolen parts.

See the connection? No? You should.

Logical fallacy on your part as well.

By and large, GM/Ford/Toyota/Honda are legal operations in the production of cars. Same goes for the dealerships that sell and service the vehicles. These are all pre-sale operators.

Illicit drug manufactures and pushers are more times than not, murderers, theifs, and money launderers before they even put their "product" on the market. That's before it's even in a buyer's hand.

Comparing the drug industry to car theif and chop shop crooks is erroneous. The closest comparison would be comparing the LEGAL drug industry (ritalin, oxcodone, ect) and people that aquire those drugs through illegal channels and sell them to abusers.

Two VERY different situations.

😛 I couldn't really come up with a good analogy.. lol

I can agree, except..

That may be true currently, but the whole point of my post was to say that.. if the drugs weren't illegal, then it would not be worth it for the type of people that are murders, thieves, and money launderers to get into the business of drugs..... Anybody should be able to see that, unless they have the blinders on. It comes full circle; making them illegal drives prices up, which gives shady people the want to be involved with them in the first place.

The high prices also act as a catalyst, causing users to commit crimes, because they are willing to anything to get their fix.

Cigarettes are just as addicting as some hardcore drugs, but you don't usually hear about crimes associated with cigarette smoking..

If you had to go to your neighborhood drug dealer and pay 20$ for a pack, you would.

 

[Conky]

Motorcycles are good for people who are tired of living. I don't trust other people enough to drive a motorcycle.

 

[Ikonomi]

Well, I'm not going to read the whole thread, but I'd like to add that my friend's little brother was killed on his motorcycle a couple weeks ago. He was going too fast late at night, according to the 100-foot skid and paint marks. He was dismembered. 🙁

What happened? The police think he hit a bird -- there were clumps of feathers on the road following the skid marks.

It was very, very sad. He was a good kid, about 17.

But I don't think motorcycles should be outlawed.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Ikonomi
Well, I'm not going to read the whole thread, but I'd like to add that my friend's little brother was killed on his motorcycle a couple weeks ago. He was going too fast late at night, according to the 100-foot skid and paint marks. He was dismembered. 🙁

What happened? The police think he hit a bird -- there were clumps of feathers on the road following the skid marks.

It was very, very sad. He was a good kid, about 17.

But I don't think motorcycles should be outlawed.

🙁

 

[opticalmace]

You say "how are motorcycles legal".

So, you're questioning their legality.


Similar to many other actions one can legally take in the USA, it has its dangers and consequences.

I think a more appropriate question for you is: "why are my friends riding motorcycles, which are dangerous?"


You are asking why they are legal...
We are given certain freedoms by being in a democratic nation. We may do whatever we want, less the restrictions legally imposed upon us by the government.

Sky-diving is legal. Bungee-jumping is legal. A 16-year-old driving a Ferrari is legal.
We have free will. Your question implies that motorcycles should be illegal because of the hazards of riding one. The role of the government is to maintain order within the country; its role is not to play mother. From this, it should not pass judgment on actions that are dangerous only to the person committing the action.

Why let mountain bikers do such large drops? It's quite hazardous, and yet it's legal.
It's simply not the role of legality to deal with dangers that affect only the user.

 

[KLin]

Ok, notfred is not saying he wants to have motorcycles banned, he's just contemplating why they haven't been banned by the government yet, and wanted everyone's opinion. Everyone is coming in here and saying, hey why don't we ban this, it kills just as many people. That's not what he's looking for. He's looking for opinions on why the govt hasn't banned motorcycles (not to be redundant, just to get the point across).

My opinion is that the amount of money that is involved in the hobby of riding motorcycles is one of the many reasons why they haven't been banned. It's a good business. Unfortunately, irresponsible people buy a motorcycle, think they can handle it, and end up hurting themselves, or even dying. The same can be said for people driving cars. a few drive irresponsibly, don't look out for motorcycle riders, and an accident happens.

I don't think they should be banned, but maybe some more safety training should be applied to people in regards to motorcycles before giving them a license. Just my 2 cents.