How Arabs solve problems

[SamurAchzar]

There were Four threads created to keep the issues categorized.

Please use them


Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy



Case #1: In the 1960's, Arafat and his gang decided it would be a good idea to establish a Palestinian entity over the West Bank. Only problem is that it belonged to Jordan at the time. It never stopped him, though, and he began creating his own country-within-a-country, which didn't hit all too well with King Hussein. It peaked at 1970:

On September 15, King Hussein declared martial law. The next day, Jordanian tanks (the 60th Armored Brigade) attacked the headquarters of Palestinian organizations in Amman; the army also attacked camps in Irbid, Salt, Sweileh,Baq'aa, Wehdat and Zarqa. Then the head of Pakistani training mission to Jordan, Brigadier Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq (later Chief of Army Staff and President of Pakistan), took command of the 2nd division.[2] [3] In addition, the Iraqi army in Jordan after 1967 war serving as a reserve forces supported the Jordanian army.[4]

Arafat later claim that the Jordanian army killed between 10,000 and 25,000 Palestinians, although more conservative estimates put the number between 1000 and 2000.

Hostage David Raab described the initial military actions in Black September this way:

"We were in the middle of the shelling since Ashrafiyeh was among the Jordanian Army's primary targets. Electricity was cut off, and again we had little food or water. Friday afternoon, we heard the metal tracks of a tank clanking on the pavement. We were quickly herded into one room, and the guerrillas threw open the doors to make the building appear abandoned so it wouldn't attract fire. Suddenly, the shelling stopped."

The armored troops were inefficient in narrow city streets and thus the Jordanian army conducted house to house sweeps for Palestinian fighters and got immersed in heavy urban warfare with the inexperienced and undisciplined Palestinian fighters.

Amman experienced the heaviest fighting in the Black September uprising. The American backed Jordanian army shelled the PLO headquarters in Amman and battled with Palestinian guerillas in the narrow streets of the capital. Syrian tanks rolled across the Yarmouk River into northern Jordan and began shelling Amman and other northern urban areas. Outdated missiles fired by the PLO struck Amman for more than a week. Jordanian infantry pushed the Palestinian Fedayeen out of Amman after weeks of bitter fighting.

And later Syria joined the gangbang, which prompted a most curious response from his Majesty:

On September 18, some 300 Syrian tanks rolled into Jordan. Hussein's army seemed incapable of checking the Syrian drive.

As King Hussein dealt with threats by both Palestinian refugees in his country and Syrian military forces crossing Jordan's border, the king asked "the United States and Great Britain to intervene in the war in Jordan, asking the United States, in fact, to attack Syria, and some transcripts of diplomatic communiques show that Hussein requested Israeli intervention against Syria

Obviously, true to the Arab way of conducting good business, his Highness responded with such deftness that makes the Israelis look like the Red Cross:

Estimates of the number of the people killed in the ten days of Black September range from three thousand to more than five thousand, although exact numbers are unknown. The Palestinian death toll in 11 days of fighting was estimated by jordan at 3,400, though Arafat claimed that 20,000 had been killed...

Apparently, he wasn't too fond of journalists, either -

The Western reporters were concentrated at the Intercontinental Hotel, away from the action. Nasser's state-controlled Voice of the Arabs from Cairo reported genocide.

The remaining were later displaced into Lebanon, and Jordan had peace afterward.

These events were later known as the Black September (or, I name I find amusing, "the era of regrettable events").

Case #2: Apparently, some hardcore Muslim guys wanted Syria's president at the time, Hafez Al Assad (the father of current president Bashar) dead, and to install a proper Islamic republic in place of the relatively secular present regime. Assad Sr. didn't respond too well, as the following suggest:

In 1979, the Syrian public was shocked by a chain of assassinations which took place starting in the artillery school in Aleppo. No one could identify who was responsible for these assassinations. After almost a year, a member from the group believed to be behind the assassinations was injured and taken into custody by the Syrian intelligence system. He was identified as a member of the Muslim Brotherhood party. The party's goals were to eliminate all persons who had strong ties with the government or Baath party, focusing on Baathists who were educated and have good reputation within the government, or army high ranking members who were relatives of Assad family or Alawites. It took The Syrian intelligence system a long time to penetrate the Muslim Brotherhood and diminish its power. Unfortunately, the Syrian security forces were, in some incidents, brutal. Many innocent civilians died in the battles between the army and the party members. Some sources estimate that the number of civilians killed was between 150,000 to 200,000. The violence damaged the national growth of the Syrian economy. The Muslim Brotherhood organisation aimed to weaken the government's authority, hoping that Sunni Muslims in the army would overthrow the Alawite-dominated government.

I wonder where was the BBC back then? Anyway, he too had peace.

You could read more about this magnificent man Here.

A lesson in irony: Ever read that article written by King Abdullah of Jordan, about how unjust is the foundation of Israel? It can be seen circulating here by the Hamas crew. Anyway, that very same King Abdullah was assassinated by... A disgruntled Palestinian. At 1951, long before Israel even knew what the West Bank is. The motive? his alleged wish to end the conflict with Israel:

Abdullah was shot while attending Friday prayers at the Dome of the Rock in the company of his grandson, Prince Hussein.[10] The Palestinian gunman, motivated by fears that the old king would make a separate peace with Israel, fired three fatal bullets into the King's head and chest

It's only appropriate that the event during which Abdullah was assassinated was... A eulogy for Lebanese Prime Minister Riad as-Solh, also assassinated by a Palestinian, also because of an alleged wish to end the conflict with Israel.

To Arabs, wherever they are :beer:

 

[Farang]

Careful don't criticize Abdullah it makes you a member of the Mossad according to some around here.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Hey, don't mind the bunch of tools hanging around here. They all have good intents, they're just stupid. If they only knew who are they people they stand up for, they wouldn't be able to look in the mirror

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Hey, don't mind the bunch of tools hanging around here. They all have good intents, they're just stupid. If they only knew who are they people they stand up for, they wouldn't be able to look in the mirror

I just think that their coffee shops and macbooks protect them from the evil truth... sometimes I wonder why we even bother to try and snap them out of it...

 

[JSt0rm]

41,749,400 civilians died in ww2. What are you trying to say?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

over 16 million Chinese civilians died in ww2

soviet union lost 11.4 million

5.7 million jews were killed

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
41,749,400 civilians died in ww2. What are you trying to say?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

over 16 million Chinese civilians died in ww2

soviet union lost 11.4 million

5.7 million jews were killed

Exactly, now Imagine Stalin preaching to Israel about human rights. Because that's just whats going on right now.

 

[Lemon law]

Be it resolved, the way Arabs solve problems is no way inferior to how the rest of us solve problems, namely badly.

We support Bapista, we get a Castro, we support a Shah in Iran and get an Ayatollah, we support a dictator in Iraq and get a Saddam Hussein, we support colonialism in South Vietnam and buy a defeat,we declare a war against terrorism and get more motivated terrorists, lets table the current Iraq and Afghanistan occupations for now, but are we winning yet?

 

[JSt0rm]

I really have no idea what your talking about. Are you saying its ok to kill civilians in war? Or are you saying that others have killed civs in war so isreal can?

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Case #1: In the 1960's, Arafat and his gang decided it would be a good idea to establish a Palestinian entity over the West Bank. Only problem is that it belonged to Jordan at the time.

Your argument is based on a lie.

Jordan never had rightful claim to the West Bank, and neither does Israel today. It has was affirmed as Palestinian territory in the 1947 UN Partition Plan and remains so today.

Perhaps if I could get a moderator to retitle your thread "How Jews make problems", you would understand how obscenely bigoted your attempts to perpetuate Israel's ongoing colonization of the West Bank actually are?

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Case #1: In the 1960's, Arafat and his gang decided it would be a good idea to establish a Palestinian entity over the West Bank. Only problem is that it belonged to Jordan at the time.

Your argument is based on a lie.

Jordan never had rightful claim to the West Bank, and neither does Israel today. It has was affirmed as Palestinian territory in the 1947 UN Partition Plan and remains so today.

Perhaps if I could get a moderator to retitle your thread "How Jews make problems", you would understand how obscenely bigoted your attempts to perpetuate Israel's ongoing colonization of the West Bank actually are?

The above has no direct connection to Israel. Most the affairs revolving Jordan have taken place long before Israel had control of the West Bank.

I know it comes across as shocking to you, but try to get this: No one gives a fuck about the West Bank. Not Israel, not the Palestinians. They day Israel withdraws is the day Hamas throws the remaining Fatah officials from buildings, assumes control and begins shooting rockets into Tel Aviv. And I'm sure that Gaza would look like a school party compared to the outcome of that.

West Bank matters to the Palestinians as a tactical post in their holy war against Israel, nothing more than that.

 

[Lemon law]

Sammy puts it exactly right by asking, "Exactly, now Imagine Stalin preaching to Israel about human rights. Because that's just whats going on right now." Not only are Stalin and Hitler now dead, the current problem is now imagine Israel trying to preach to both Arabs and the rest of the world about human rights and we have the same epic fail. The Israeli state as the new Nazis, because the shoe now fits for Israel, wear it Sammy.

I and the bulk of people support the right of Israel to exist, but sadly, most of us cannot support the State of Israel current behavior.

 

[SamurAchzar]

It doesn't matter what you support, nor does the UN matter. You can't expect the problem solving of Sweden to apply in a conflict between people this different in mentality. Arabs understand the language of power, that's what brought Israel, ultimately, peace with its neighbors. The terrorist organizations (Hamas/Hizballah) are a relatively new problem that worries the Arab countries themselves just as much - if not more - than it worries Israel.

Who do you think Mubarak fears more, Hamas or Israel?

 

[Aimster]

What about the millions of "Arabs" in Israel who are not classified as "Arabs" because of their religion?

The thread is to suggest that Arabs as a whole act like animals. If there is something genetic in their system then the "Arab"-Jews in Israel have it to.

That would explain the big mess then

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
The above has no direct connection to Israel.

I was referring to your attempt to build an argument to slander Arabs based on a lie.

Were I a bigot, I'd claim that is "how Jews make problems". However, I know that many non-Jews are making problems the exact same way, and many Jews are working to stop this madness, so I'm not compelled towards any such bigotry.

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
I know it comes across as shocking to you, but try to get this: No one gives a fuck about the West Bank. Not Israel, not the Palestinians.

If Israeli leaders didn't five a fuck about the West Bank they wouldn't have colonized it with half a million Israel civilians.

On the other hand Palestinians have to give a fuck about it because they don't have any other homeland than the Palestinian territories.

Yet you obviously don't give a fuck about Palestinians as plainly evidenced by your mad "death to Palestine" crusade against them. You whine on about Hamas, but they are your ilk.

 

[Craig234]

Your thread is nothing but bigotry.

Is there some truth in criticisms of things Palestinians have done? Of course. That's not the point.

When racists say things about eating watermelon as a way of referencing black people, the issue isn't that "blakcs really hate watermelon, they're lying!"

The issue is that they're expressing nothing but bigotry, hate, with the very reference, in the context they're saying it.

You are doing nothing but posting bigotry - regardless of the specific facts, that's the context ofyour post.

All the comments about the 'Hamas crowd', the sneering responses misrepresenting other posters and so on, are exactly the same you see when racists egg each other on.

Your post is not to educate but to dehumanize, to build support for your agenda of hate and violence, even if you don't realize that's what it is just as many racists don't realize it.

There's almost no talking to racists, and there's almost no talking to you.

You're just blind to the dehumaning you do, the hate you spew, the hypocrisy oozing from your propaganda (you use Abdullah for your purposes and ignore him for others).

Your bigotry is a good example of the irrational blocks to peace that outsiders boggle at when looking at the region. The fact it exists on the other side as well doesn't excuse yours.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
It doesn't matter what you support, nor does the UN matter.

The UN matters as much as we make it matter. We made South African apartheid end, and we can make it bring a just solution the Israel Palestine conflict as well.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
The above has no direct connection to Israel.

I was referring to your attempt to build an argument to slander Arabs based on a lie.

Were I a bigot, I'd claim that is "how Jews make problems". However, I know that many non-Jews are making problems the exact same way, and many Jews are working to stop this madness, so I'm not compelled towards any such bigotry.

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
I know it comes across as shocking to you, but try to get this: No one gives a fuck about the West Bank. Not Israel, not the Palestinians.

If Israeli leaders didn't five a fuck about the West Bank they wouldn't have colonized it with half a million Israel civilians.

On the other hand Palestinians have to give a fuck about it because they don't have any other homeland than the Palestinian territories.

Yet you obviously don't give a fuck about Palestinians as plainly evidenced by your mad "death to Palestine" crusade against them. You whine on about Hamas, but they are your ilk.

Hey, I don't think Arabs create problems. I think they are just Arabs, with their own morality and judgment you're too condescending to accept. Didn't mommy teach you about diversity and that not everyone is just like you?

This is the only reason Hamas can shout "Death to Israel" and you fools think they want to negotiate. You never want to face reality, as it just defies your logic. So you think it could end tomorrow if Israel would just give them the West Bank, all the while ignoring their very public intents.

 

[ProfJohn]

Case #3
Hamas and Fatah fight for control of Gaza

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: Craig234
Your thread is nothing but bigotry.

Is there some truth in criticisms of things Palestinians have done? Of course. That's not the point.

When racists say things about eating watermelon as a way of referencing black people, the issue isn't that "blakcs really hate watermelon, they're lying!"

The issue is that they're expressing nothing but bigotry, hate, with the very reference, in the context they're saying it.

You are doing nothing but posting bigotry - regardless of the specific facts, that's the context ofyour post.

All the comments about the 'Hamas crowd', the sneering responses misrepresenting other posters and so on, are exactly the same you see when racists egg each other on.

Your post is not to educate but to dehumanize, to build support for your agenda of hate and violence, even if you don't realize that's what it is just as many racists don't realize it.

There's almost no talking to racists, and there's almost no talking to you.

You're just blind to the dehumaning you do, the hate you spew, the hypocrisy oozing from your propaganda (you use Abdullah for your purposes and ignore him for others).

Your bigotry is a good example of the irrational blocks to peace that outsiders boggle at when looking at the region. The fact it exists on the other side as well doesn't excuse yours.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Cheers :beer:

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
This is the only reason Hamas can shout "Death to Israel" and you fools think they want to negotiate.

I never suggested anything of the sort.

Would you quit acting like a fool now?

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Case #3
Hamas and Fatah fight for control of Gaza

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/967828.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/ZER403A.html
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsme...l_created_hamas_and_k/
http://www.larouchepub.com/oth...002/2902isr_hamas.html

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: Craig234
Your thread is nothing but bigotry.

Is there some truth in criticisms of things Palestinians have done? Of course. That's not the point.

When racists say things about eating watermelon as a way of referencing black people, the issue isn't that "blakcs really hate watermelon, they're lying!"

The issue is that they're expressing nothing but bigotry, hate, with the very reference, in the context they're saying it.

You are doing nothing but posting bigotry - regardless of the specific facts, that's the context ofyour post.

All the comments about the 'Hamas crowd', the sneering responses misrepresenting other posters and so on, are exactly the same you see when racists egg each other on.

Your post is not to educate but to dehumanize, to build support for your agenda of hate and violence, even if you don't realize that's what it is just as many racists don't realize it.

There's almost no talking to racists, and there's almost no talking to you.

You're just blind to the dehumaning you do, the hate you spew, the hypocrisy oozing from your propaganda (you use Abdullah for your purposes and ignore him for others).

Your bigotry is a good example of the irrational blocks to peace that outsiders boggle at when looking at the region. The fact it exists on the other side as well doesn't excuse yours.

Bigotry? I just referenced Wikipedia. Never did I judge their actions; I think they know the Palestinians more than you or I do.

No, I think you're the bigot, for completely dismissing their mentality and values. When I show that historically, Arabs, who at times like these pretend to be the knights of human rights, are much more aggressive than Israel, you get all confused, resorting to accuse me of a malicious context. Huh.

Whether you like it or not, with your misinformed reactions here you are siding with Hamas, a movement which is as bigoted, cruel and violent as they come. Some Americans wised up at 9/11; you just get pissed upon and you call it rain. I wonder what spectacular Islamic pyrotechnics would it taken your enlightened Muslim friends before you switch sides.