Sorry for the generic tone of the post but I copied from another post I made. I feel the same way and have purchased all my games ( I have 2 320 ring CD binders for old games and have about 2+ large bins full with recent purchases). I hate to admit it I have a ton of games that I bought but never played. Compare that to people who pirate that play but may never buy. The last few years have made people that obtain games via legitamate methods end up having the most headaches. Do I turn to piracy? Nope, I just avoid buying/playing games at the same rate and migrated more towards consoles (outside of RTS games). Huge change in the last 2 years and I have been an active PC gamers since the release of Doom 1. I think in the last 12 months I only made 3 pc game purchase which were COH Expansion, COD4 (both PC and Xbox), and Orange Box (PC and Xbox). On the Xbox I probably purchased at least 10-12 games.
Here were my thoughts on Copy protection.
Actually I don't need to get used to DRM, I simply avoid buying/playing any more PC games. I buy all my games, if you could only see the piles of boxes in the garage my wife nags me about (some even unopened). However, my issue is with the mechanism.
A) CD Checks. That was fine with me. Don't have an issue with checking my CD to make sure I purchased it. Still it was nice for those titles without, but it was fine for the time.
B) CD Keys. This was to prevent people from bypassing the CD Checks, so now we got this mechanism. Early on it was fun trying to figure out if you had O (Letter) or 0 with several variances in between. Either case it was fine for the time and was only used for install.
C) CD Key via online. So not only was the 2 above not getting the job done, now we need to verify when we start the game and/or play multiplayer. My favorite was with Farcry and if you exited a game you would need to wait roughly 5-10 minutes so your key would be released before you could join a new server.
D) DRM: Now not only is the 3 above not doing the job, now we need to install additional software on your computer to make sure your not circumventing, guess what, the CD check.
E) Online Verification: Now not only do we need all 4 of the above, but we need to add online verification so we can inconvenience you with all 4 including this additional measure. Oh BTW, if you swap out hardware frequently you need to jump through hoops to be able to play your purchased game. That and early versions, ie HL2, you go out and buy the version on CD/DVD but if you happen not to have broadband, or if the server is getting hammered on new release, your SOL.
So with the console I take it out of the new DVD case, place it in the console, game fricken on!
Here were my thoughts on Copy protection.
Actually I don't need to get used to DRM, I simply avoid buying/playing any more PC games. I buy all my games, if you could only see the piles of boxes in the garage my wife nags me about (some even unopened). However, my issue is with the mechanism.
A) CD Checks. That was fine with me. Don't have an issue with checking my CD to make sure I purchased it. Still it was nice for those titles without, but it was fine for the time.
B) CD Keys. This was to prevent people from bypassing the CD Checks, so now we got this mechanism. Early on it was fun trying to figure out if you had O (Letter) or 0 with several variances in between. Either case it was fine for the time and was only used for install.
C) CD Key via online. So not only was the 2 above not getting the job done, now we need to verify when we start the game and/or play multiplayer. My favorite was with Farcry and if you exited a game you would need to wait roughly 5-10 minutes so your key would be released before you could join a new server.
D) DRM: Now not only is the 3 above not doing the job, now we need to install additional software on your computer to make sure your not circumventing, guess what, the CD check.
E) Online Verification: Now not only do we need all 4 of the above, but we need to add online verification so we can inconvenience you with all 4 including this additional measure. Oh BTW, if you swap out hardware frequently you need to jump through hoops to be able to play your purchased game. That and early versions, ie HL2, you go out and buy the version on CD/DVD but if you happen not to have broadband, or if the server is getting hammered on new release, your SOL.
So with the console I take it out of the new DVD case, place it in the console, game fricken on!
Mem
Lifer
- Apr 23, 2000
- 21,476
- 13
- 81
I have had no problems with Starforce,SecuROM or Tages,however Bioshock did give me a bit of grief when it was first released,took me over 3 hours before I could even install and play the game due to their activation server being down,not good for a gamer like myself that goes out and buys a retail game,I mean you expect to be able to install and play the game.
Problem is there are no perfect solutions,harder they try to prevent piracy the harder and more problems legit gamers get to run the game ,we all know its the legit gamers that suffer in the end and not the piracy sector.
raystorm
Diamond Member
- Apr 24, 2001
- 4,712
- 2
- 0
I picked up GRID the other day and I can only play it by going into the dvd drive and double clicking autorun. ..lol I get a nice securom error if I just use the start menu or vista game folder shortcuts. Nice. I probably should have bought the steam version.
The only games I buy are on steam, I do it for three reasons.
1. No need to keep cd's, my games are all there
2. Cheaper
3. I will never have any problems of games not working because of drm
1. No need to keep cd's, my games are all there
2. Cheaper
3. I will never have any problems of games not working because of drm
Language was a bit excessive, but he pretty much nailed it.
Your only choices:
Don't buy it - you're not supporting DRM, but you aren't helping the Devs either (if the game deserves it).
Buy it - you support the Devs and the DRM, and you may well have issues playing the game.
Pirate it - you support neither, but you're not legit.
Buy it and use Pirate version - You're still supporting both the Devs and the DRM, but you'll probably be able to play without issues.
Buy a used copy and use the Pirate version - You're legit and can play the game, but you're not supporting the Devs or DRM.
Some would add STEAM as a viable method as well, but I prefer to have a hard copy - what happens they go out of business or shut down the servers? Also, look at Bioshock, it still has DRM crap in the STEAM version - why is that necessary?
Consoles? No thanks, I don't need to make room for another appliance and their games are generally more expensive. Also, some systems have been known to eat the CD's/DVD's - so you'll end up buying it again if it's worthwhile.
Right now there are no win-win solutions with DRM.
Your only choices:
Don't buy it - you're not supporting DRM, but you aren't helping the Devs either (if the game deserves it).
Buy it - you support the Devs and the DRM, and you may well have issues playing the game.
Pirate it - you support neither, but you're not legit.
Buy it and use Pirate version - You're still supporting both the Devs and the DRM, but you'll probably be able to play without issues.
Buy a used copy and use the Pirate version - You're legit and can play the game, but you're not supporting the Devs or DRM.
Some would add STEAM as a viable method as well, but I prefer to have a hard copy - what happens they go out of business or shut down the servers? Also, look at Bioshock, it still has DRM crap in the STEAM version - why is that necessary?
Consoles? No thanks, I don't need to make room for another appliance and their games are generally more expensive. Also, some systems have been known to eat the CD's/DVD's - so you'll end up buying it again if it's worthwhile.
Right now there are no win-win solutions with DRM.
Yes, he's helping to solve the problem.
If enough people complain about it, publishers will get the hint that shit like like Starforce and SecuROM hurt sales.
Let's break it down logically
1) SecuROM is sometimes an extreme inconvenience to users who buy the games legitimately. If the game has been purchased legitimately, it should work straight out of the box regardless of any additional software or hardware that is on the PC. These games don't work if you have 2 DVD drives. That's bullshit.
2) SecuROM doesn't meet its intended goal. It does not prevent piracy of any kind. You can easily find cracks and full versions of any SecureROM game all over the internet.
3) Using SecuROM costs money; it is a licensed software scheme. PC games didn't increase in price (they've always been $50ish), so this is only increasing development costs.
4) Using SecuROM decreases the number of legitimate purchases. I didn't buy numerous PC games because of this bullshit, including Bioshock and Mass Effect, choosing instead to borrow my friend's copy for the 360. I love these games and would have been happy to purchase them, because I prefer PC gaming. I hate SecuROM though.
5) We can conclude from points 3 and 4 that SecuROM costs a publisher a net loss in income. If fewer people purchase the games due to SecuROM and SecuROM itself costs the publisher money, then clearly this is one piracy scheme that needs to be scrapped. The point of piracy prevention is to increase income, not decrease it.
SecuROM is killing PC gaming. If enough people point out that they are NOT going to buy SecuROM games, then publishers will stop using it.
shortylickens
No Lifer
- Jul 15, 2003
- 80,287
- 17,081
- 136
I appreciate the rant but this is nothing new.
We all know darn well that anti-piracy measures affect paying customer much more adversely than pirates.
At this point its easier for me to just give up PC gaming and go back to my nintendo.
On a completely unrelated topic:
Why didnt they make a 2nd Zelda game for the SNES?
We all know darn well that anti-piracy measures affect paying customer much more adversely than pirates.
At this point its easier for me to just give up PC gaming and go back to my nintendo.
On a completely unrelated topic:
Why didnt they make a 2nd Zelda game for the SNES?
I like Ubisoft though! I don't want them to go bankrupt and would prefer a more direct approach along the lines of everyone e-mailing them and telling them that they're absolutely retarded if they think this SecuRom shit works.
Ubisoft is not a shitty publisher, they're just bundling good games with a shitty add-on. It's a mistake, but I don't want them to go bankrupt for it. All the same, I don't buy games with SecuROM, but I do want the developers to get SOMETHING.
The problem is that the publishers don't know that. If people remain vocal about this issue, it may change. It's impossible for publishers to realize that they're losing customers when a fair number of people are still buying the games. They're not making as much money as they could and there's no way for them to realize that unless people actually tell them so.
Anyone who denies that the internet can act as a driving force clearly hasn't been living in reality. Just one person on a message board won't make a difference, but if enough gamers voice dissent then the publisher will realize exactly how much money SecuROM costs them.
The only problem I have with Steam is if Valve ever goes bankrupt... but I trust Valve would remove the DRM and allow people to download ISOs or something at that time.
If you had problems with Bioshock, then you've had problems with SecuROM.
I like Steam's solution; it is not invasive and works very well. It's not perfect, but I think it fosters enough good will in their customers that more people buy the games than pirate them.
Zenoth
Diamond Member
- Jan 29, 2005
- 5,202
- 216
- 106
You obviously don't have any more arguments, you keep posting that line as if you were a bot with an auto-response, just leave this thread if you cannot provide opinions. At least I'm trying to debate and discuss it, I may be wrong in some of my points but you're not the one who's going to help the situation either anyway by posting such a weak remark over and over.
@ Eezee
Finally someone's with me here, that's refreshing once in a while.
@ Xavier434
No indeed I never worked in that domain but I'm trying to think about this situation the best I can. When I buy a game the money don't just go to SecuROM or any other anti-piracy companies, that you don't have to work in that domain to know about, the devs and publishers also get some of that money, if not all of it. Tell me though I really do want to get educated about it, who's paying SecuROM, the devs? or the publishers? ...or both?
In the end though you just confirmed exactly what I was saying, you said "The way to do that is to develop effective methods of copyright protection which does not harm the legitimate user in any way." And that's exactly what I typed almost word by word in my previous posts. I AM for copy protection, for anti-piracy measures, but for Christ's sake let's hope that they make a more efficient method, because right now they're still using the same crappy, often not-working one over and over.
The problem is I do want to continue buying games simply because I want to support the creative minds behind it. If some of my money from buying a game goes to SecuROM then the positive thing in it is that IF there is an intelligent mind out there in that company who's going to use it and every other gamer's to make a better method than in the end buying games WILL have helped make the situation better for everyone (for all the legitimate gamers). Yes, it might be a naive thought, but at least I do support the developers, at least it is with that in mind that I still buy the games I own, sooner or later.
Yes, intellectual masturbation is much more productive than making fun of intellectual masturbation.
My mistake. Carry on.
Zenoth
Diamond Member
- Jan 29, 2005
- 5,202
- 216
- 106
If I carry on it'll go off-topic with personal attacks, and that'd be useless.
And I've made all of my points regarding this subject, you obviously made yours too, which is that the guy and me are both "not helping the situation", alright. Now what? Nothing, there's nothing to carry on about other than hatred towards each other which isn't the goal here or shouldn't be anywhere else for that matter.
If you want to carry on do it you're free to and I don't care if you do or don't, I just won't reply to your posts anymore since it brings us nowhere. Maybe we'll meet each others in another thread, another context and hopefully another behavior.
lxskllr
No Lifer
- Nov 30, 2004
- 59,959
- 10,439
- 126
That exact same thing happened to me. I got pissed, and downloaded a crack. Unfortunately I had a cranial/rectal inversion at the time and installed a virus on my system :^/ I got that cleared up, and ended up contacting Securom. 2 days later I got to play the game. I highly doubt I'll be buying the sequel, even though I thoroughly enjoyed the game when it worked properly. I don't appreciate paying $60(limited edition set) for a game, only to be treated like a criminal, and having unreasonable restrictions on how I install the game.
Believe it or not, you can still crack Steam games. Every one of my Steam games is using a cracked exe so I can start the game from a batch file and assign priority.
(programs launched by steam.exe cannot have a custom priority).
I'm not upset about Steam's DRM. I'm choosing to crack my games because I want to use batch files. The games still work perfectly fine without being cracked, and that's the way it should be
Capt Caveman
Lifer
- Jan 30, 2005
- 34,543
- 651
- 126
For BF2, why not just mount an image to a virtual drive? I haven't seen my BF2 DVD in like two years.
Originally posted by: ShawnD1
Believe it or not, you can still crack Steam games. Every one of my Steam games is using a cracked exe so I can start the game from a batch file and assign priority.
(programs launched by steam.exe cannot have a custom priority).
I'm not upset about Steam's DRM. I'm choosing to crack my games because I want to use batch files. The games still work perfectly fine without being cracked, and that's the way it should be
But at least your games are legit. Copy protect doesn't prevent hackers from copying the games. It just gives legitimate users like us a hard time.
Zenoth
Diamond Member
- Jan 29, 2005
- 5,202
- 216
- 106
Capt Caveman, that's what I do. And I typed it, I said I'm using a mini-image without replacing the original .EXE, and that way it works, on a virtual drive created by Deamon Tools, of course. The original DVD never worked, it's not recognized at all.
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