How and why the right lies about Social Security - and the media repeat it

[BarneyFife]

I think the majority of people that are anti-social security either have never worked, are retarded, or both.

 

[her209]

LMAO what a f'in moron...I take it you don't have a job?

From last year...
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2092241

But he lives in NYC so yeah..........

 

[Nemesis 1]

All three statements are true.

Are you sure about 3. look at how they stealing the 401K money . You don't think they do the same with SS investments. My wife is so pleased with me . I asked her to take half her 401K and she did and are we happy she listened The thing that great about being 60 . no penelity to speak of . and I timed it perfectly Got out before summer .

 

[Jhhnn]

There are two separate issues with SS. One is that the trust fund is not enough to cover future outlays for SS so we will need to do one or more of the things Craig discussed. The second is that the trust fund doesn't really exist and government will have to issue new bonds on the public market when it wants to draw down the trust fund. IIRC LBJ was the first president to start counting annual SS surpluses toward the general budget. So even Clinton's balanced budget wasn't actually balanced.

The boomers have paid their SS taxes, but they are going to get more back on average then they put in. Even if the trust fund actually existed they would still have not paid enough in.

Not quite true at all. The govt can raise taxes to cover the SS shortfall, rather than issuing new debt. The truth is that if Repub Admins had been as fiscally responsible as the Clinton Admin or even the Carter Admin., we wouldn't be having this discussion- federal debt would be much lower than it is today, and issuing new debt would be a viable method. It's not, not now, not after Repubs kept cutting taxes at the top & borrowing more money to finance those taxcuts as they radically shifted national income to the wealthiest among us, puffed up the military, engaged in elective wars of adventure.

Righties can't call for balancing the budget and borrowing to finance SS out of opposite sides of their mouths, as if those things existed in different universes.

If boomers haven't put enough into the trust to cover the shortfall, that's by design. Their contributions covered the SS expenditures made for their elders, and they've gone above and beyond in creating the trust in an attempt to partially cover their own SS. They've done what they were asked to do, trusted their leaders, and still pay for the SS benefits received by their seniors. Very few boomers are actually receiving SS payments at this time. The vast majority are still paying in.

So what does the Conservative leadership they've voted for & trusted these last 30 years have in store for them?

Heh. Take a wild guess. America's wealthiest aren't giving up any of their pile to keep the elderly riffraff clothed, or fed, or supplied with necessary meds, or warm in the winter w/o a fight, and it's the Republican party doing the fighting for them. They're the Job Creators!, even when they aren't actually creating jobs at all, but rather just hoarding, and their entitlement to more money, more power is all they care about.

 

[Nemesis 1]

You just named the 2 guys that did the most to get us to this point in time . Stop lieing to self they all evil lieing bastards . Google elenin now , or Nasa elenin this thing is massive 40 days and counting. No jokes please this thing is confirmed and it really massive

 

[Craig234]

So, did you watch the video? Comments on that issue?

IIRC LBJ was the first president to start counting annual SS surpluses toward the general budget.

Not the best idea.

So even Clinton's balanced budget wasn't actually balanced.

Yes, it was, even when you take Social Security out the last year.

The boomers have paid their SS taxes, but they are going to get more back on average then they put in.

I'd be interested to see some data on that, I haven't found much.

Even if the trust fund actually existed they would still have not paid enough in.

Yes, the government coming up with the borrowed money seems it'll be painful. Who's guilty of spending every penny since Reagan created it? Voters let them.

It has let the politicians in part get away with hiding the financial problems, with debt.

But that isn't just 'they spend too much', it's about covering up the massive transfer of wealth to the top - their skyrocketing wealth has come from somewhere.

 

[a777pilot]

Are you sure about 3. look at how they stealing the 401K money . You don't think they do the same with SS investments. My wife is so pleased with me . I asked her to take half her 401K and she did and are we happy she listened The thing that great about being 60 . no penelity to speak of . and I timed it perfectly Got out before summer .

No, I am not. You have a good point. I guess if I had my way I would end SS all together.

 

[blackangst1]

Interesting. I didnt know Tom Carper, Dianne Feinstein, and Joe Lieberman (amongst others) were amongst the Republicans calling for increasing the retirement age! Who knew they switched parties!

I stopped reading at that lie, since 95% of what Craig posts about Republicans is lies and the other 5% is propaganda.

I will watch the video when I get home tonite though. Bernie Sanders, although sometimes on topic, is amusing to watch.

 

[ProfJohn]

Not quite true at all. The govt can raise taxes to cover the SS shortfall, rather than issuing new debt. The truth is that if Repub Admins had been as fiscally responsible as the Clinton Admin or even the Carter Admin., we wouldn't be having this discussion- federal debt would be much lower than it is today

Are you fucking blind???

Obama has added $3.5 trillion to the debt in 2.5 years!!!!

By the time his first term is up he will have added as much to the debt as Bush did over 8 years!! By the end of this term he will be responsible for a third of the debt total.

Stop bitching about Republican Presidents and what they did to the debt while your boy is blowing up in a way never seen before.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

I think the majority of people that are anti-social security either have never worked, are retarded, or both.

Or the wealthy whose wealth comes in the form of dividends and capital gains and they pay no payroll taxes, therefore earn no SS benifits.

 

[her209]

Are you fucking blind???

Obama has added $3.5 trillion to the debt in 2.5 years!!!!

By the time his first term is up he will have added as much to the debt as Bush did over 8 years!! By the end of this term he will be responsible for a third of the debt total.

Stop bitching about Republican Presidents and what they did to the debt while your boy is blowing up in a way never seen before.

Bush spent 10T (and that was just during his term) but is responsible for only ~3T? Bush could have paid down the national debt but he instead chose to return the money in the form of tax cuts, ran a failed war in Afghanistan, started a useless war in Iraq, and signed off on Medicare Part D along with many other unfunded programs.

You're smoking something if you think Bush is only responsible for ~3T to the national debt.

 

[Engineer]

Stop bitching about Republican Presidents and what they did to the debt while your boy is blowing up in a way never seen before.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2011/07/14/Poll-Bush-responsible-for-economy/UPI-92741310654192

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Are you fucking blind???

Obama has added $3.5 trillion to the debt in 2.5 years!!!!

By the time his first term is up he will have added as much to the debt as Bush did over 8 years!! By the end of this term he will be responsible for a third of the debt total.

Stop bitching about Republican Presidents and what they did to the debt while your boy is blowing up in a way never seen before.

Blah, Blah, Blah! Hack on blind hater boy

Obama inherited a raging forest fire, and every time he picks up a fire hose the right wing haters like yourself turn off the hydrant. Then complain about how much bigger the fire has grown, and how its the hated ones fault.

 

[ProfJohn]

Bush spent 10T (and that was just during his term) but is responsible for only ~3T? Bush could have paid down the national debt but he instead chose to return the money in the form of tax cuts, ran a failed war in Afghanistan, started a useless war in Iraq, and signed off on Medicare Part D along with many other unfunded programs.

You're smoking something if you think Bush is only responsible for ~3T to the national debt.

The debt went up by $5 trillion during the Bush years.

 

[blackangst1]

Blah, Blah, Blah! Hack on blind hater boy

Obama inherited a raging forest fire, and every time he picks up a fire hose the right wing haters like yourself turn off the hydrant. Then complain about how much bigger the fire has grown, and how its the hated ones fault.

Well apparently Moody's doesnt like Obama's plan either...that's right. Obama's plan. He owns this mess now. He's had 3 fucking years.

 

[dmcowen674]

How and why the right lies about Social Security - and the media repeat it

- Reducing the wealth of the public makes the wealth of the rich more valuable. This is basic 'concentration of wealth' agenda. Money not spent on them, can go to the rich.

- Privatization would create many, many billions of dollars of profit in fees for administering Social Security, while putting the retirement funds of Americans worth trillions into the hands of Wall Street to invest and leverage - fueling the bubble of the day, more than they already can with their massive resources, including the other retirement money, 401(k) and pensions. Wall Street is willing to spend to lobby for that.

The video has Bernie Sanders commenting, listing three myths the right-wing spreads:

1. Social Security needs to raise the age of retirement

If you respond to the thread, please say if you watched it, I'm leaning toward only reading replies that begin by saying they did.

Yes, watched the Video. Up until the Wisconsin fiasco I had never heard of the Koch Brothers. Apparently they were responsible for what happened in Wisconsin and now the people of the state are trying to get the state back from them.

I still don't know who they are or where they came from.

Since they appear to be so anti-American how come Americans have not run them out of the country yet?

 

[Engineer]

Well apparently Moody's doesnt like Obama's plan either...that's right. Obama's plan. He owns this mess now. He's had 3 fucking years.

People don't think so.

As was stated earlier, Obama has folded to the Republicans faster than Superman on laundry day. Regardless, he was handed the most shitty situation since the 1930's. Has he handled it very well? Probably not but what he has done is mostly continue the policies of the previous administration in tax cuts and the like and did increase spending, just as the last administration was doing at the very end.

Regardless, he'll get the blame most likely and we'll start over with the same end results. A crumbling foundation of offshoring and removing decent jobs from the lower/middle classes and without them, you'll never get out of this mess.

 

[ProfJohn]

Blah, Blah, Blah! Hack on blind hater boy

Obama inherited a raging forest fire, and every time he picks up a fire hose the right wing haters like yourself turn off the hydrant. Then complain about how much bigger the fire has grown, and how its the hated ones fault.

Obama chose to spend $800 billion on a worthless stimulus that did nothing to fix the economy.

Spending is the problem!

Open your eyes.

In his first three years in office Obama has spent $1.8 trillion MORE than Bush's last year.
2011 spending will be almost $1 trillion more than 2008 alone.
It took Bush 6 years to add $1 trillion to the budget, Obama has done it in 3.

Bush's last budget estimated that we would spend $3.1 trillion in 2011.
Obama's 2011 budget wanted $3.8 trillion in spending.

There is NO way that we have $700 billion in recession spending in there. That $700 billion is EXTRA spending all belongs to Obama. So stop making excuses for the guy.

Everything you need to know is right here:
Bush's last budget.
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy09/pdf/hist.pdf
Obama's most recent budget.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2012/assets/hist.pdf

 

[ProfJohn]

People don't think so.

Obama thinks so and he even said as much in 2009.

“Now, my administration has a job to do, as well, and that job is to get this economy back on its feet. That's my job. And it’s a job I gladly accept. I love these folks who helped get us in this mess and then suddenly say, ‘Well, this is Obama’s economy.’ That’s fine. Give it to me. My job is to solve problems, not to stand on the sidelines and carp and gripe.”

 

[Engineer]

Obama thinks so and he even said as much in 2009.

“Now, my administration has a job to do, as well, and that job is to get this economy back on its feet. That's my job. And it’s a job I gladly accept. I love these folks who helped get us in this mess and then suddenly say, ‘Well, this is Obama’s economy.’ That’s fine. Give it to me. My job is to solve problems, not to stand on the sidelines and carp and gripe.”

Well, Obama isn't going to vote himself or the rest of the dems into (back) office by himself.

I don't know why I'm wasting my time. You would never give Obama credit for anything regardless of the fact that he's continued the last admin's policies almost to the letter.

 

[trenchfoot]

Blah, Blah, Blah! Hack on blind hater boy

Obama inherited a raging forest fire, and every time he picks up a fire hose the right wing haters like yourself turn off the hydrant. Then complain about how much bigger the fire has grown, and how its the hated ones fault.

Yeah, I think it hilarious how the repubs have been doing every single thing possible to wreck anything the Dems have been doing toward fixing the mess the repubs made and then have the gall to deny any culpability whatsoever toward the stagnant state of affairs we find ourselves in whilst attributing all the damage they've caused on Obama.

Cute.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Well apparently Moody's doesnt like Obama's plan either...that's right. Obama's plan. He owns this mess now. He's had 3 fucking years.

NO Moodys doesn't like the divided gridlock that is our government which is incapable of acting in the best interests of the country. Any plan Obama puts forward only galvanizes those who oppose him at all costs.
If anyone is to blame for the shape we are in it is the severly divided electorate that elected Obama in 2008 then turned around and put the republicans in control of the house in 2010.

 

[ProfJohn]

Well, Obama isn't going to vote himself or the rest of the dems into (back) office by himself.

I don't know why I'm wasting my time. You would never give Obama credit for anything regardless of the fact that he's continued the last admin's policies almost to the letter.

If he was continuing Bush's policies the debt would be at least a trillion less than it actually is...

 

[ProfJohn]

NO Moodys doesn't like the divided gridlock that is our government which is incapable of acting in the best interests of the country. Any plan Obama puts forward only galvanizes those who oppose him at all costs.
If anyone is to blame for the shape we are in it is the severly divided electorate that elected Obama in 2008 then turned around and put the republicans in control of the house in 2010.

No, Moody's is upset that we have TOO much debt.

The rest of it is BS smoke and finger pointing.

They wanted a $4 trillion debt deal. Obama wanted a clean increase. If Obama got 100% of what HE wanted they would have still lowered our rating.

 

[Engineer]

Well, Obama isn't going to vote himself or the rest of the dems into (back) office by himself.

I don't know why I'm wasting my time. You would never give Obama credit for anything regardless of the fact that he's continued the last admin's policies almost to the letter.

If he was continuing Bush's policies the debt would be at least a trillion less than it actually is...

Check.