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House passes the $700B+ bailout deal (updated)

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Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
Originally posted by: Special K
Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
Originally posted by: Special K
Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
fuckin punks are gonna pass it.
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I love how so many people in this country are ignorant. You have no clue what would happen wiht this bill, do you. This is about main street, not Wall Street.

Your reasons for not wanting the bailout are probably rooted in emotion (how dare they spend my money on this). You don't get it. What the gov't is doing is investing your money and most think it will result in a very profitable investment.
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Good, that will provide them with the money they will need to bail these firms out again in a few years after their next get-rich-quick scheme blows up.
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Greed is part of human nature. It is only a matter of time till something else happens.
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Given that greed is part of human nature, isn't this bailout setting a dangerous precedent?
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What precedent? That human beings will continue to be human?

You think a great depression should occur and eventually when things get better "that will teach them"? I hate to tell you this, but most of us are aware of the great depression that occurred in the 1930s and it taught us nothing. Things will eventually get better and greed will take hold and create another crisis.
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The precedent is that the government will now step in and save failing firms whose get-rich-quick schemes blow up rather that let them fail. Won't this just encourage even more irresponsible behavior in the future?

Won't we find ourselves facing a very similar situation in several years? Just replace "housing/mortgages" with some other asset.
 
Yeah I have a lawn chair out back valued at...let's say....$40,000,000 so I'll add that to the value of all my assets. What? You want to see how much its really worth? Oh noes! Bailout please~!
 
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: Xavier434
ZOMG COMMUNISM INC!

WE NEED NWO! DOWN WITH THE FED! FOUNDING FATHERS! FREE MARKET!

LIBERTOPIA! LIBERTOPIA! LIBERTOPIA! LIBERTOPIA! LIBERTOPIA!


Jesus dude, stop letting your fear get the best of you. This is not socialism like what you see in Cuba and it will not get that way give the current track we are heading. Also, all forms of socialism are not prime roots of evil. It can be used very effectively when practicing moderation.
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Are you kidding me? You think its fear? Get a clue. Jesus. Its ANGER! Wow, I'm glad you're ok with them taking our tax dollars for banks. I say fuckem!@ Let those bastards drown!

Enjoy your pie in the sky on the expense of the taxpayer.
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You fear communism and you are angry because you believe this country's decisions are leading us towards communism. Thus, your fear is fueling your anger. Not exactly a new concept.

But where is the true reason and solid forms of evidence? It is no where to be found. Sure, it is a possibility. Anything is possible, but that specific possibility is far from becoming likely yet. The best you can possibly come up with is linking a few similarities here and there with other communist countries while ignoring the vast number of differences. That is anything but what I would consider "solid" and "complete" evidence. There are so many other paths that this country can take for better or for worse it is ridiculous to blow up such a speculation to the proportions that you and other libertopians constantly plague this forum with.
 
Originally posted by: razor2025
Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Warren Buffet said if Berskshire had $700 billion to spend, he'd be buying all the mortgage debt the gov't is about to buy. That should tell you something. He'd love to have 1% of the pie but it is not possible. He also said that. But you know more.

By the way, we actually did land on the moon!
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Lie. You're twisting his words. Buffet would buy the debt AT MARKET PRICE. Do you know what the market price for those debt are? Isn't the reason why we're in this mess is because NO ONE knows how much those assets are really worth? Buffet could mean that he simply wants those debts for FREE!
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Exactly, buffet is all about money and he'll say and do whatever it takes to make it. It was obvious this bill would pass though once buffet throu in, all through history there's always big money to be made at turning points by the elite in the economy. And they always make their money.

 
This combined with its pork and comments about maybe lowering interest rates another 50 basis, it's like the gov is doing all it can to devalue the dollar. Granted, it's up against Euro but only because the Euro is being smoked on a spit as well, right?
 
Originally posted by: Xavier434

With that said, this bailout will allow me to get a loan so I can buy a house which I can reasonably afford along with enough cushion money just in case something unexpected happens. I have excellent credit but I wasn't able to get a loan before. Now I can. So, that's one main street American for you which will benefit from this bailout and that is one main street American for you which will be buying a house and making payments successfully while doing my part to stimulate this economy.
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You do realize of course that you'd be much better able to afford a house if the cheap credit spree of the last decade hadn't tripled home prices, right?
 
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: Xavier434
ZOMG COMMUNISM INC!

WE NEED NWO! DOWN WITH THE FED! FOUNDING FATHERS! FREE MARKET!

LIBERTOPIA! LIBERTOPIA! LIBERTOPIA! LIBERTOPIA! LIBERTOPIA!


Jesus dude, stop letting your fear get the best of you. This is not socialism like what you see in Cuba and it will not get that way give the current track we are heading. Also, all forms of socialism are not prime roots of evil. It can be used very effectively when practicing moderation.
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Are you kidding me? You think its fear? Get a clue. Jesus. Its ANGER! Wow, I'm glad you're ok with them taking our tax dollars for banks. I say fuckem!@ Let those bastards drown!

Enjoy your pie in the sky on the expense of the taxpayer.
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You fear communism and you are angry because you believe this country's decisions are leading us towards communism. Thus, your fear is fueling your anger. Not exactly a new concept.
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Whatever kid. I just told you I am not afraid but angry. But you have it all figured out, so be it. We are in the transition period from democracy to socialism, communism isn't far away from that but not what I have been pointing out.

But where is the true reason and solid forms of evidence? It is no where to be found.
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I know you are not that stupid. Did the bailout just pass or not? Is that a socialist move or not? I rest my case.

Sure, it is a possibility. Anything is possible, but that specific possibility is far from becoming likely yet. The best you can possibly come up with is linking a few similarities here and there with other communist countries while ignoring the vast number of differences. That is anything but what I would consider "solid" and "complete" evidence. There are so many other paths that this country can take for better or for worse it is ridiculous to blow up such a speculation to the proportions that you and other libertopians constantly plague this forum with.
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Where do you get this communist BS? Who said anything about it? Oh I know, you did.
 
Originally posted by: Xavier434

ZOMG COMMUNISM INC!

WE NEED NWO! DOWN WITH THE FED! FOUNDING FATHERS! FREE MARKET!

LIBERTOPIA! LIBERTOPIA! LIBERTOPIA! LIBERTOPIA! LIBERTOPIA!


Jesus dude, stop letting your fear get the best of you. This bailout is not socialism and this country is not heading to a government like what you see in Cuba. Also, all forms of socialism are not prime roots of evil. It can be used very effectively when practicing moderation.
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Get out from under LegendKiller's desk.
 
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: Xavier434

With that said, this bailout will allow me to get a loan so I can buy a house which I can reasonably afford along with enough cushion money just in case something unexpected happens. I have excellent credit but I wasn't able to get a loan before. Now I can. So, that's one main street American for you which will benefit from this bailout and that is one main street American for you which will be buying a house and making payments successfully while doing my part to stimulate this economy.
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You do realize of course that you'd be much better able to afford a house if the cheap credit spree of the last decade hadn't tripled home prices, right?
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Yup, but that is no longer a problem either as of last few months where I live.
 
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Do yuo know where small busiensses get money from when their income stream is not steady? With credit being lended no where, you local corner store would be closed for a while. The empl;oyees out of work. etc....

This also applies to things like car dealerships, everything really. If people can't get credit to bu ya vehicle, what will happen?
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Uhh IDK, maybe FUCKING SAVE?! An economy built on debt. You like that?
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Debt is a very useful tool, one that companies and nations have used effectively for centuries.

If we had to pay up front for everything we wouldn't even have a fucking country to be talking about this in. The American Revolution was funded by loans from France and on notes to other Americans.
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Debt is useful when used as a means of production. The US is now just financing extravagance. It's that financing which caused the credit market to seize up. All we've done with this bailout is allow people to keep spending more than they make. Keep the shopping spree going, America. Don't worry, our kids will pay for it!
 
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
I know you are not that stupid. Did the bailout just pass or not? Is that a socialist move or not? I rest my case.
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Your issue is that you believe that all decisions made by the Fed which even hit at socialism are somehow bad a progressive move towards Communism which is complete bullshit. I would agree with you if we practiced socialism far more than what we do now, but that simply isn't the case.

Look...you really want to prevent the possibility of this country becoming too much of a socialized society then you need to start trying to convince the Repubs to truly be conservative again so that the equation can be balanced more effectively over long periods of time. This radical Libertarian way of thinking will always be rejected. It won't work. I believe your intentions are justified but your anger is making you far less flexible and objective than what is necessary to make good realistic progress here.

The answer is balance. It is not socialism. It is not conservatism, being a bleeding heart liberal, or some kind of left field radical activist from the LP. It completely revolves around checks and balances.
 
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Don't worry, our kids will pay for it!
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Not my kids. Time to pack the bags and hit the road. This ship has sank. I wouldn't burden my children on this piece of shit place. When we have bridges collapsing we decided to bailout bankers who are already filthy rich?
 
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Keep the shopping spree going, America. Don't worry, our kids will pay for it!
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So when will the bill actually come due? It seems like people have been saying this forever.

 
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Debt is useful when used as a means of production. The US is now just financing extravagance. It's that financing which caused the credit market to seize up. All we've done with this bailout is allow people to keep spending more than they make. Keep the shopping spree going, America. Don't worry, our kids will pay for it!
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No, what we have done with this bailout is allow people to spend period.
 
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
I know you are not that stupid. Did the bailout just pass or not? Is that a socialist move or not? I rest my case.
Click to expand...

Your issue is that you believe that all decisions made by the Fed which even hit at socialism are somehow bad a progressive move towards Communism which is complete bullshit. I would agree with you if we practiced socialism far more than what we do now, but that simply isn't the case.
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This is you dodging the question. Let me answer this for you cause you do not get it. This was a Socialist move and for the final time will you get it out of your thick monkey head about communism? You are trying to make an argument out of nothing. Either point out where I mentioned something about communism or shut up. Thank you very much for your cooperation.

Look...you really want to prevent the possibility of this country becoming too much of a socialized society then you need to start trying to convince the Repubs to truly be conservative again so that the equation can be balanced more effectively over long periods of time. This radical Libertarian way of thinking will always be rejected. It won't work. I believe your intentions are justified but your anger is making you far less flexible and objective than what is necessary to make good realistic progress here.
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What is radical about not allowing socialist intrusions into the market? Secondly, the only thing remotely close to be conservative has been the Ron Paul movement. The rest are hooked on the money and power drug.

The answer is balance. It is not socialism. It is not conservatism, being a bleeding heart liberal, or some kind of left field radical activist from the LP. It completely revolves around checks and balances.
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There is no check or balance when common American citizens will pay for wallstreet mistakes.

I'm sorry, continue eating your pie....
 
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
This is you dodging the question. Let me answer this for you cause you do not get it. This was a Socialist move and for the final time will you get it out of of thick monkey head about communism? You are trying to make an argument out of nothing. Either point out where I mentioned something about communism or shut up. Thank you very much for your cooperation.
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Yes, it was a socialist move and it was a positive one imo. You very obviously disagree.

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Secondly, the only thing remotely close to be conservative has been the Ron Paul movement.
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Ron Paul is far from what I would consider a candidate who will restore balance to the equation. All he wants to do is tip the needle a different direction in an incredibly radical way. Thus, replacing one set of problems with a completely different set of problems. That is not progressive. I know you don't believe that, but I do and so do many others apparently.


Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
There is no check or balance when common American citizens will pay for wallstreet mistakes.

I'm sorry, continue eating your pie....
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There is when it is followed up by proper regulation and enforcement reform. The checks and balance system was broken which lead us to this problem. It is still broken because no reform has taken place yet but it will unless we are retarded beyond all degrees demonstrated in the past (Cynics! Chime in!). If the reform is successful then that means the checks and balances with this kind of issue has been reestablished. That's the goal.



...I swear it is always the crazy libertopians which cause those most heated flame wars in P&N. When will your party figure out that America just doesn't like you or your policies? You don't stand a chance whether you are truly right or wrong.
 
Originally posted by: Special K
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Keep the shopping spree going, America. Don't worry, our kids will pay for it!
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So when will the bill actually come due? It seems like people have been saying this forever.
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So you think foreign investors will keep floating us forever?
 
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: IsLNdbOi
Once the house and senate pass a bill, can the president still veto it?
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:Q Seriously?!?
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Don't ridicule him for asking, encourage him to ask, that's how we improve people being informed.
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You're of course correct, and I'm sorry if I offended the OP, but still, this stuff is just so basic, and only fuels my cynicism. A few weeks back the Wash. Post published a poll indicating that only 2/5 of adults questioned knew the federal gov't was composed of three branches, and could name them. Just wow. And people want to encourage these sorts of people to vote? I want to encourage them to get more informed, or just stay home. Besides, they might miss Access Hollywood or the latest Paris Hilton reality show if they went to the polls.
 
I haven't had a government class since the first year of college. Give me a break. I hate celebs. and whenever I watch TV, it's usually on CNN, MSNBC or some other news channel. Whenever they start doing a piece on crap related to pop culture I change the channel.

You're an ass Mursilis.
 
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