House passes the $700B+ bailout deal (updated)

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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
47,997
37,169
136
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
You must be clueless to even think in any realm of possibility that this will make us money. Your government just made the biggest socialist move in its history. Welcome to the U.S.S.A. No its not emotion, its common sense. Last weeks poll numbers showed 7% of Americans wanted this bill to pass, but our Congress failed us once more. Do you believe in democracy? That the Senate and House are to represent the people? Then no matter how much you think we needed this bill, you should acknowledge that passing it was wrong.

In this particular case Congress was representing the best interest of the people, not necessarily their will. This is a prime example of why we are a republic and not a direct democracy.

The government may or may not make money on the deal, however it is certain the money won't be washed down the drain (or into execs pockets) as people are claiming

Yes, they know what to do with our money better than we do. How about we just go to work, have the government collect all the checks and distribute evenly monthly wages.

Given how the average American spends their money I think that point is hardly debatable in this case.
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,373
1
0
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
You must be clueless to even think in any realm of possibility that this will make us money. Your government just made the biggest socialist move in its history. Welcome to the U.S.S.A. No its not emotion, its common sense. Last weeks poll numbers showed 7% of Americans wanted this bill to pass, but our Congress failed us once more. Do you believe in democracy? That the Senate and House are to represent the people? Then no matter how much you think we needed this bill, you should acknowledge that passing it was wrong.

In this particular case Congress was representing the best interest of the people, not necessarily their will. This is a prime example of why we are a republic and not a direct democracy.

The government may or may not make money on the deal, however it is certain the money won't be washed down the drain (or into execs pockets) as people are claiming

Yes, they know what to do with our money better than we do. How about we just go to work, have the government collect all the checks and distribute evenly monthly wages.

ZOMG COMMUNISM INC!

WE NEED NWO! DOWN WITH THE FED! FOUNDING FATHERS! FREE MARKET!

LIBERTOPIA! LIBERTOPIA! LIBERTOPIA! LIBERTOPIA! LIBERTOPIA!


Jesus dude, stop letting your fear get the best of you. This bailout is not socialism and this country is not heading to a government like what you see in Cuba. Also, all forms of socialism are not prime roots of evil. It can be used very effectively when practicing moderation.

 
Sep 29, 2004
18,656
67
91
Originally posted by: Special K
Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
Originally posted by: Special K
Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
fuckin punks are gonna pass it.

I love how so many people in this country are ignorant. You have no clue what would happen wiht this bill, do you. This is about main street, not Wall Street.

Your reasons for not wanting the bailout are probably rooted in emotion (how dare they spend my money on this). You don't get it. What the gov't is doing is investing your money and most think it will result in a very profitable investment.

Good, that will provide them with the money they will need to bail these firms out again in a few years after their next get-rich-quick scheme blows up.

Greed is part of human nature. It is only a matter of time till something else happens.

Given that greed is part of human nature, isn't this bailout setting a dangerous precedent?

What precedent? That human beings will continue to be human?

You think a great depression should occur and eventually when things get better "that will teach them"? I hate to tell you this, but most of us are aware of the great depression that occurred in the 1930s and it taught us nothing. Things will eventually get better and greed will take hold and create another crisis.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
Originally posted by: SleepWalkerX
The sad thing is if this bailout passes and jobs aren't created, banks continue to fail, and we still reach a major depression (which will be a magnitude longer than it needs to be) I won't bother saying I told you so because its not going to matter. We'll still continue justifying theft from others using whatever means possible (the government in this case) as long as we stand something to gain. Its a horrible way to live.

Without the bailout. There WILL be a depression. There WILL BE alot more jobs lost than without it.

I hope you do realize that unemployment rates will continue to worsen with the bill. No disagreement there. The bill should prevent double digit percentage unemployment.

Are you paid to post for the Wall Street interests? Even the bill's biggest cheerleaders, Paulson/Bernake, told Congress unemployment might hit 8-9% if it *wasn't* passed.

So here you are flipping that around to say that the same thing they warned about is now a good thing with is passing.
 

razor2025

Diamond Member
May 24, 2002
3,010
0
71
Originally posted by: Xavier434


1. Govt buys mortgages at low price.
2. Econ recovers over time.
3. Demand for housing increases a lot causing their values to rise.
4. Govt. sells mortgages for more than what they bought it for.
5. Profit.

You're assuming that economy recovers because of this bailout. How do we know that the recovery is actually based on fundamental growth and not some financial-black-magic that caused the collapse of today? Bankers fucked up and now they're given candy for their mistakes.
 
Sep 29, 2004
18,656
67
91
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
I hope you guys don't think this will be the last bailout passed. This has only set the precedent for more in the future, and I'll bump this post when it happens. Fvcking crooks.

I think the FDIC should not honor checking accounts anymore. F the American people and there bull shit bailouts. If people had money in a bank that failed it's their own fault!
 

razor2025

Diamond Member
May 24, 2002
3,010
0
71
Originally posted by: Craig234

Are you paid to post for the Wall Street interests? Even the bill's biggest cheerleaders, Paulson/Bernake, told Congress unemployment might hit 8-9% if it *wasn't* passed.

So here you are flipping that around to say that the same thing they warned about is now a good thing with is passing.

IIRC, IHMJ2004 does work for investment/finance industry, so I can see why he's anxious for the government to save his boss's rear.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
47,997
37,169
136
Originally posted by: razor2025
Originally posted by: K1052

In this particular case Congress was representing the best interest of the people, not necessarily their will. This is a prime example of why we are a republic and not a direct democracy.

The government may or may not make money on the deal, however it is certain the money won't be washed down the drain (or into execs pockets) as people are claiming

If the Congress had the best interest of the people, they would lock themselves for two weeks and craft a through and comprehensive reform for the market along with the bailout. No, Congress did not have people's best interest in their mind. All they were doing is saving their own asses and their buddies in the finance sector.

Regulatory reform is going to take longer to craft and pass but I have no doubt its coming.

All the regulatory reform in the world wouldn't be worth 2 cents if the debt markets were allowed to totally collapse.
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,373
1
0
Originally posted by: razor2025
Originally posted by: Xavier434


1. Govt buys mortgages at low price.
2. Econ recovers over time.
3. Demand for housing increases a lot causing their values to rise.
4. Govt. sells mortgages for more than what they bought it for.
5. Profit.

You're assuming that economy recovers because of this bailout. How do we know that the recovery is actually based on fundamental growth and not some financial-black-magic that caused the collapse of today? Bankers fucked up and now they're given candy for their mistakes.

No, I am assuming the econ will recover period and I also assume that the bailout is a form of positive assistance towards that recovery if we want to recover in a way that involves a lot less pain and time. Beyond that, no matter how you slice it profit = profit.

In the end, there are many ways to skin this cat. I just happen to agree that this is a good way to do it even though I recognize it is not the only way.

 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
You must be clueless to even think in any realm of possibility that this will make us money. Your government just made the biggest socialist move in its history. Welcome to the U.S.S.A. No its not emotion, its common sense. Last weeks poll numbers showed 7% of Americans wanted this bill to pass, but our Congress failed us once more. Do you believe in democracy? That the Senate and House are to represent the people? Then no matter how much you think we needed this bill, you should acknowledge that passing it was wrong.

In this particular case Congress was representing the best interest of the people, not necessarily their will. This is a prime example of why we are a republic and not a direct democracy.

The government may or may not make money on the deal, however it is certain the money won't be washed down the drain (or into execs pockets) as people are claiming

Yes, they know what to do with our money better than we do. How about we just go to work, have the government collect all the checks and distribute evenly monthly wages.

ZOMG COMMUNISM INC!

WE NEED NWO! DOWN WITH THE FED! FOUNDING FATHERS! FREE MARKET!

LIBERTOPIA! LIBERTOPIA! LIBERTOPIA! LIBERTOPIA! LIBERTOPIA!


Jesus dude, stop letting your fear get the best of you. This is not socialism like what you see in Cuba and it will not get that way give the current track we are heading. Also, all forms of socialism are not prime roots of evil. It can be used very effectively when practicing moderation.

Are you kidding me? You think its fear? Get a clue. Jesus. Its ANGER! Wow, I'm glad you're ok with them taking our tax dollars for banks. I say fuckem!@ Let those bastards drown!

Enjoy your pie in the sky on the expense of the taxpayer.
 
Sep 29, 2004
18,656
67
91
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
fuckin punks are gonna pass it.

I love how so many people in this country are ignorant. You have no clue what would happen wiht this bill, do you. This is about main street, not Wall Street.

Ignorance is a matter of opinion and I'm sure we are both pointing fingers. You want to make it about "main street" when it is only the banks who get the money. How many mortgages were paid off for Americans? None! All the bad debt is going to be bought up, not the good (ones that will make a profit). Otherwise there would be no need for the bailout.

Do yuo know where small busiensses get money from when their income stream is not steady? With credit being lended no where, you local corner store would be closed for a while. The empl;oyees out of work. etc....

This also applies to things like car dealerships, everything really. If people can't get credit to bu ya vehicle, what will happen?
 
Sep 29, 2004
18,656
67
91
Your reasons for not wanting the bailout are probably rooted in emotion (how dare they spend my money on this). You don't get it. What the gov't is doing is investing your money and most think it will result in a very profitable investment.

You must be clueless to even think in any realm of possibility that this will make us money. [/quote]

Warren Buffet said if Berskshire had $700 billion to spend, he'd be buying all the mortgage debt the gov't is about to buy. That should tell you something. He'd love to have 1% of the pie but it is not possible. He also said that. But you know more.

By the way, we actually did land on the moon!

 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Do yuo know where small busiensses get money from when their income stream is not steady? With credit being lended no where, you local corner store would be closed for a while. The empl;oyees out of work. etc....

This also applies to things like car dealerships, everything really. If people can't get credit to bu ya vehicle, what will happen?

Uhh IDK, maybe FUCKING SAVE?! An economy built on debt. You like that?
 

razor2025

Diamond Member
May 24, 2002
3,010
0
71
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: razor2025

Regulatory reform is going to take longer to craft and pass but I have no doubt its coming.

All the regulatory reform in the world wouldn't be worth 2 cents if the debt markets were allowed to totally collapse.

Really? Because they were sure as hell quick to dole out a bailout with the promise that this will FIX the economy? I'm not against the bailout 100%. I'm against it because it was handed out without any slightest provision for reform. I don't believe that if the bailout didn't pass this week, that we would nose-dive into the 1930's. There were plenty of opportunity to craft at least SOME provisions that HINTED at market reform. That was not done.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
47,997
37,169
136
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Do yuo know where small busiensses get money from when their income stream is not steady? With credit being lended no where, you local corner store would be closed for a while. The empl;oyees out of work. etc....

This also applies to things like car dealerships, everything really. If people can't get credit to bu ya vehicle, what will happen?

Uhh IDK, maybe FUCKING SAVE?! An economy built on debt. You like that?

Debt is a very useful tool, one that companies and nations have used effectively for centuries.

If we had to pay up front for everything we wouldn't even have a fucking country to be talking about this in. The American Revolution was funded by loans from France and on notes to other Americans.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
Your reasons for not wanting the bailout are probably rooted in emotion (how dare they spend my money on this). You don't get it. What the gov't is doing is investing your money and most think it will result in a very profitable investment.

Warren Buffet said if Berskshire had $700 billion to spend, he'd be buying all the mortgage debt the gov't is about to buy. That should tell you something. He'd love to have 1% of the pie but it is not possible. He also said that. But you know more.

By the way, we actually did land on the moon!

Saying and doing are two different things.
 

razor2025

Diamond Member
May 24, 2002
3,010
0
71
Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Warren Buffet said if Berskshire had $700 billion to spend, he'd be buying all the mortgage debt the gov't is about to buy. That should tell you something. He'd love to have 1% of the pie but it is not possible. He also said that. But you know more.

By the way, we actually did land on the moon!

Lie. You're twisting his words. Buffet would buy the debt AT MARKET PRICE. Do you know what the market price for those debt are? Isn't the reason why we're in this mess is because NO ONE knows how much those assets are really worth? Buffet could mean that he simply wants those debts for FREE!
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Do yuo know where small busiensses get money from when their income stream is not steady? With credit being lended no where, you local corner store would be closed for a while. The empl;oyees out of work. etc....

This also applies to things like car dealerships, everything really. If people can't get credit to bu ya vehicle, what will happen?

Uhh IDK, maybe FUCKING SAVE?! An economy built on debt. You like that?

Debt is a very useful tool, one that companies and nations have used effectively for centuries.

If we had to pay up front for everything we wouldn't even have a fucking country to be talking about this in. The American Revolution was funded by loans from France and on notes to other Americans.

The nation having a negative savings rate for the first time since the Great Depression IIRC is not the kind of productive borrowing you mention.

On the othher hand, the underlying issue of the corruption that has led to the economic pie going to the few most wealthy has a big effect on people's having enough to save.