Honda's engines vs Nissan vs Toyota?

[isekii]

I wish they come out with a Factory Turbo for the IS300

then i'd be pushing well over 300 easy



Supra Engine is prolly one of the most underrated engine around .. plus it's reliability is out of this world...

Small tuning would equate to lots of power~

 

[jlee]

I have a 1998 Corolla (~120hp, 115-120ft/lb), just short of 117,000 miles..still runs great, no problems with it at all (nothing that I'm aware of, anyways)..not exactly a Ferarri, but it works..

My grandparents buy nothing but Toyota..they now have a Highlander & a 2door sedan..forget which one..kinda sporty looking, though.

 

[isekii]

Originally posted by: CadetLee
I have a 1998 Corolla (~120hp, 115-120ft/lb), just short of 117,000 miles..still runs great, no problems with it at all (nothing that I'm aware of, anyways)..not exactly a Ferarri, but it works..

My grandparents buy nothing but Toyota..they now have a Highlander & a 2door sedan..forget which one..kinda sporty looking, though.

if it was a 2 door it would be a coupe not a sedan..

sedan = 4 door

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: slikmunks
oh... mazda's not an option... well, nm then...

FordZda

Well, that's a bit short sighted. The RX-8, Miata, Mazda6 (save the Duratec V6 - which has a custom head and valvetrain), Millenia (now-defunct), 626 (also defunct), and Protege were all Mazda designed from beginning to end.

 

[Doggiedog]

The 3.0L I6 in my old GS300 was very smooth. Smoother than the I6 in my BMW 325i. But the exhaust sound of the BMW was much nicer.

The 3.5L V6 in my MDX is not as smooth. I can feel it rumbling when the car is idle.

On another note, I saw the new Z last night with Xenons in silver. It was absolutely sweet!

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: slikmunks
i'm gonna have to drop off my 2 cents here... reliability, i'd have to say goes to honda and toyota... you see some OLD hondas and toyotas out there... but performance engines... i'm a rotary guy, so i'm going to have to say mazda's 13bt or 13b-rew... and then if you REALLY want performance, you go 20bt. Between the rotary, and a somewhat lightweight sports car, that's where the fun's at...

Why don't we see more rotary engines? They've gotten pretty reliable, haven't they? Can they go 200,000 miles without replacing the apex seals yet? lol..

You can find small, ~13hp rotary engines on ebay sometimes. I've always wanted to pick one up and build a gocart or something. Extremely powerful for their size...

 

[bolido2000]

Originally posted by: isekii

Originally posted by: CadetLee
I have a 1998 Corolla (~120hp, 115-120ft/lb), just short of 117,000 miles..still runs great, no problems with it at all (nothing that I'm aware of, anyways)..not exactly a Ferarri, but it works..

My grandparents buy nothing but Toyota..they now have a Highlander & a 2door sedan..forget which one..kinda sporty looking, though.

if it was a 2 door it would be a coupe not a sedan..

sedan = 4 door

In theory it could be a 2 door sedan
A car is classified as a coupe depending on the room in the backseat, not if it has 2 doors.

 

[CraigRT]

I don't dispute that Toyota makes fantastic engines... overall perhaps even a bit better than Nissan for long lasting durability although not by much.. and Nissan engines have the edge on the performance aspect for SURE.

I think overall the Nissan engine is better ( at least for someone like me ) being as it's smooth (3.0V6 lets say), has fantastic power, and is extremely reliable.

 

[LXi]

<<Fact is.....Which engine has been on Ward's 10 best engine every year since its introduction and considered one of the best V6 in the US? (Hint: is not made by honda or Toyota)>>

It's interesting why the Ward's 10 best engine is brought up so many times in support of Nissan engines. Yet, Car And Driver's 10 Best Cars was never brought up in discussions involving the best sedan. The Accord has been one of the 10 Best 16 of the past 20 years. Not saying that makes their engine any better, but I just want to throw this in 'cause I find it relavent.

 

[bolido2000]

Originally posted by: LXi
<<Fact is.....Which engine has been on Ward's 10 best engine every year since its introduction and considered one of the best V6 in the US? (Hint: is not made by honda or Toyota)>>

It's interesting why the Ward's 10 best engine is brought up so many times in support of Nissan engines. Yet, Car And Driver's 10 Best Cars was never brought up in discussions involving the best sedan. The Accord has been one of the 10 Best 16 of the past 20 years. Not saying that makes their engine any better, but I just want to throw this in 'cause I find it relavent.

C&D looks at the overall package. Nissan't might have killer engines but perhaps C&D thinks the Accord is a better car overall *shrugs*. Same thing with the Passat...it has won almost all sedan comparisons yet it has never been on C&D 10 best. The Maxima was among C&D 10 best in 1995 when it came out IIRC.

 

[Balthazar]

Originally posted by: wellerdball
performance by efficentcy im not impressed by 245hp from a nissan altima 3.5 liter dohc v6 or the maximas 255 hp at 5800 rpm on the same 3.5 block when hondas 3.0 liter dohc v6 can do 240 and the 3.2 can do 260.YES i have noticed the torque difference but we are talking about a half a liter difference and added weight.

Can you pass some of whatever that is?
I'd love to get knocked out of my gourd as hard as you!

 

[Balthazar]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: wellerdball
performance by efficentcy im not impressed by 245hp from a nissan altima 3.5 liter dohc v6 or the maximas 255 hp at 5800 rpm on the same 3.5 block when hondas 3.0 liter dohc v6 can do 240 and the 3.2 can do 260.

Did you LOOK at the torque curve? The Nissan engine has way more area under the curve than the Honda counter parts.

You guys/gals should realize that engine performance is dependent on the torque rather than peak power. Look at dynocharts of these engines and you'll see which make more power.

Get out of here with that crazy "reality" stuff!
It has no place in a thread like this!

 

[CraigRT]

Originally posted by: Balthazar

Originally posted by: wellerdball
performance by efficentcy im not impressed by 245hp from a nissan altima 3.5 liter dohc v6 or the maximas 255 hp at 5800 rpm on the same 3.5 block when hondas 3.0 liter dohc v6 can do 240 and the 3.2 can do 260.YES i have noticed the torque difference but we are talking about a half a liter difference and added weight.

Can you pass some of whatever that is?
I'd love to get knocked out of my gourd as hard as you!

I'm with you dude...

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Yield

Originally posted by: Balthazar

Originally posted by: wellerdball
performance by efficentcy im not impressed by 245hp from a nissan altima 3.5 liter dohc v6 or the maximas 255 hp at 5800 rpm on the same 3.5 block when hondas 3.0 liter dohc v6 can do 240 and the 3.2 can do 260.YES i have noticed the torque difference but we are talking about a half a liter difference and added weight.

Can you pass some of whatever that is?
I'd love to get knocked out of my gourd as hard as you!

I'm with you dude...

Actually.. I'm with him.. Considering Honda's 3.0L engine produces 240, I don't find 255 from a 3.5L very impressive.

Let's compare the stats more.

Honda:
240HP @ 6250RPM
212ftlbs @ 5000RPM
Redline = 6800RPM
Bore x Stroke = 86.0 x 86.0mm
Compression Ratio = 10.0:1
Fuel Required = Regular Unleaded
Fuel Economy = 22/31 (6 speed Manual(?))
DOHC 24 Valve i-VTEC
MPFI
Direct Ignition
Emissions Rating = LEV-II ULEV Tier 2 Bin-5
Tune-Up Interval = 105,000 Miles

Nissan:
255HP @ 5800RPM
246ftlbs @ 4400RPM
Redline = 6600RPM
Bore x Stroke = 95.5 x 81.4mm
Compression Ratio = 10.3:1
Fuel Required = Premium Unleaded
Fuel Economy = 21/28 (6 speed manual)
DOHC 24 Valve CVTCS
MPFI
Direct Ignition
Emissions Rating = LEV (?)
Tune-Up Interval = 105,000 Miles

The most interesting thing I think I've learned here is that the Maxima requires Premium, while the Honda doesen't.. even though their compression ratios are virtually the same. I can't find torque curves for the V6 Honda engine. I'll keep looking, but until I find some.. I can't really comment. The Honda engine develops maximum HP and torque at higher RPMs, along with having a slightly higher redline. It also gets better gas milage, but that may be due to car weight, etc. From what I was able to determine, the Honda has better emissions rating.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if someone had their Honda V6 bored out to 93mm (93 x 86 = 3.5L).. would be interesting to see what the numbers were.

 

[mithrandir2001]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: Yield

Originally posted by: Balthazar

Originally posted by: wellerdball
performance by efficentcy im not impressed by 245hp from a nissan altima 3.5 liter dohc v6 or the maximas 255 hp at 5800 rpm on the same 3.5 block when hondas 3.0 liter dohc v6 can do 240 and the 3.2 can do 260.YES i have noticed the torque difference but we are talking about a half a liter difference and added weight.

Can you pass some of whatever that is?
I'd love to get knocked out of my gourd as hard as you!

I'm with you dude...

Actually.. I'm with him.. Considering Honda's 3.0L engine produces 240, I don't find 255 from a 3.5L very impressive.

Let's compare the stats more.

Honda:
240HP @ 6250RPM
212ftlbs @ 5000RPM

Nissan:
255HP @ 5800RPM
246ftlbs @ 4400RPM

Problem is torque ratings. Those are more revealing than HP (which is a function of torque and RPM anyway). 212/3.0 = 70.7 and 246/3.5 = 70.3. VERY similar and why they say "there is no replacement for displacement". Torque is great and you can only get more torque by increasing the bore and stroke.

That said, I'd take the Honda engine because it has enough power and is a cheaper proposition from various angles.

 

[bolido2000]

Ok...here are the proofs that the VQ whoops ass

Altima 240Hp vs Accord 240HP @ crank

getting sadder...VQ35DE vs J30A4 torque graph

Maxima 255HP vs TL-S 260 HP

same as above for torque


Lots of dyno comparisons

 

[AvesPKS]

Originally posted by: NFS4

It's a known issue, and Toyota changed the design in response. That tells you something.
Does VQ develope sludge without oil change for 10K miles? I don't think so.

Changed their design how and do you have a link?

As to the second part, what's your point? What dumbass drives their car for 10,000 miles without changing their oil (unless stated that you can drive that long btw changes like some Mercedes models)?

That's like saying that you can drive 100,000 miles on a set of 40,000 mile all season tires. Sure, you could POSSIBLY do it, but what kind of idiot does that?

ME!!!

When old faithful's end was near ('87 Cutlass Ciera with 200,000 miles), I just knew I had to kill it before I sold it. I kept it for over a year (probably 14-16 months, at least 15,000 miles) without changing the oil (hell, any fluids, excepting washer fluid). I would regularly go offroading with it, drop it down to first gear at excessively high speeds...it just would not die! That old Quad 4 just refused to die, despite my best efforts.

 

[AvesPKS]

Originally posted by: NFS4
Also, when it comes to hybrids, Toyota and Honda have Nissan whooped.

When Nissan wanted to develop hybrid powertrains for their cars, who did they go to??? They signed a deal with Toyota to use THEIR technology.

Who did GM go for hybrid engine technology?? They too signed a deal with Toyota.

Where did GM go when they wanted to put a new V6 engine in their VUE sport-ute for the next model year?? They signed a deal with Honda to provide them with SOHC 3.0 liter V6 engines.

Too bad no one leans on Nissan for engines...I wonder why??

Maybe because Nissan and GM knew that hybrids are a phase, and the not the next generation of green vehicles.

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Nobody leans on Mazda for engines, and look at the amazingness of their rotaries. Besides that, one engine from Nissan, and a hybrid powertrain from Toyota are not exactly leaning.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: AvesPKS

Originally posted by: NFS4
Also, when it comes to hybrids, Toyota and Honda have Nissan whooped.

When Nissan wanted to develop hybrid powertrains for their cars, who did they go to??? They signed a deal with Toyota to use THEIR technology.

Who did GM go for hybrid engine technology?? They too signed a deal with Toyota.

Where did GM go when they wanted to put a new V6 engine in their VUE sport-ute for the next model year?? They signed a deal with Honda to provide them with SOHC 3.0 liter V6 engines.

Too bad no one leans on Nissan for engines...I wonder why??

Maybe because Nissan and GM knew that hybrids are a phase, and the not the next generation of green vehicles.

It is a question of volume. There is not sufficient volume for each company to justify developing their own hybrid system, but if they use the same system in several companies it might generate sufficient volume to make money. As of now Toyota loses money on hybrid systems. If Nissan thought that they would sell enough hybrids to justify developing one in house, they would have done that. I don't think Nissan by themselves will sell enough hybrids, so they are making a good business decision to license the technology. This happens in business all the time. That's why Dell doesn't make their own CPUs.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: bolido2000
Ok...here are the proofs that the VQ whoops ass

Altima 240Hp vs Accord 240HP @ crank

getting sadder...VQ35DE vs J30A4 torque graph

Maxima 255HP vs TL-S 260 HP

same as above for torque


Lots of dyno comparisons

Thanks for the links. Exactly what I was looking for.

Hmm.. Very interesting. According to the VQ35DE vs J30A4 torque graph, the Nissan engine actually develops around 270ftlbs max @ about 3750rpm. :Q

Okay.. I have new respect for the Nissan engine. It really is a torque monster, eh.

 

[mithrandir2001]

Originally posted by: bolido2000
Ok...here are the proofs that the VQ whoops ass

Altima 240Hp vs Accord 240HP @ crank

getting sadder...VQ35DE vs J30A4 torque graph

With torque output like that at low RPMs, the Altima engine must achieve horrible fuel economy. I don't care what the EPA figures are: those figures are for "normal" (hardly) driving. For instance, the Corvette coupe (5.7L V8, 405hp, 400ft-lb) gets 19mpg city EPA and the Jetta GL (2.0 I-4, 115hp, 122ft-lb) gets 23mpg city EPA. The Jetta engine has 35% of the displacement, 28% of the max HP and 31% of the max torque of the Vette engine and it gets a measly 21% more mpg in the city? I mean, REALLY. The person who drives a Vette is going to drive much differently than somebody who drives a base Jetta. EPA economy figures are shite.

Anyway, this thread is not about indicting the EPA's method for measuring fuel economy but I want to point out that high torque output carries a price: high fuel consumption. It's money out of your pocket.

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: mithrandir2001

Originally posted by: bolido2000
Ok...here are the proofs that the VQ whoops ass

Altima 240Hp vs Accord 240HP @ crank

getting sadder...VQ35DE vs J30A4 torque graph

With torque output like that at low RPMs, the Altima engine must achieve horrible fuel economy. I don't care what the EPA figures are: those figures are for "normal" (hardly) driving. For instance, the Corvette coupe (5.7L V8, 405hp, 400ft-lb) gets 19mpg city EPA and the Jetta GL (2.0 I-4, 115hp, 122ft-lb) gets 23mpg city EPA. The Jetta engine has 35% of the displacement, 28% of the max HP and 31% of the max torque of the Vette engine and it gets a measly 21% more mpg in the city? I mean, REALLY. The person who drives a Vette is going to drive much differently than somebody who drives a base Jetta. EPA economy figures are shite.

Anyway, this thread is not about indicting the EPA's method for measuring fuel economy but I want to point out that high torque output carries a price: high fuel consumption. It's money out of your pocket.

But with torque output sufficiently higher, you can drive around in a higher gear.
Edit: Also, there is no way that torque is actually being produced during normal driving. What determines fuel economy is the opening of your throttle, not torque at max throttle.

 

[rootaxs]

Nissan is playing the numbers game once again. The 3.5L in the Maxima and Altima is actually pushing more torque than advertised, in fact it's pretty much the same as what the Pathfinder is advertised as having (and so with the G35 sedan).

As for fuel economy on the Maxima, i went on a trip from the Midwest to the NE states and back - 95% highway - and i'm glad to report getting 530 miles/tank with just a bit over a gallon left in the tank between fill-ups. That translates to approximatly 29mpg on a 3.5L Auto Maxima. I'm sure the 6spd's are capable of better fuel economy.

 

[LAUST]

Unless a vehicle is gonna hit a track or tow a trailor I'd say that throws power into a distant priority

It's desighn and longevity that are the 2 most important things with a REGULAR CAR engine. I have yet to personally scope a 3.5, but it is a V6 right? and it's in a FWD car?? that already SUCKS to do anything under the hood. 29MPG is good but I had 2 Civic's that both went the speed limit just fine and got over 40Mpg on 85 Octaine Plus I could change the plugs in 5 minutes. Have fun with those back 3 fella's ... oh wait... thats right everyone is gonna have a shop do it for them... no actual quality time with your engines