Honda's engines vs Nissan vs Toyota?

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: NFS4

Uh...Lola uses Nissan engines (3l VQ) in the Le Mans and various other races, Infiniti uses Nissan's V8s in IRL (I think that's the series..not sure), I believe Toyota/Nissan were sharing technology equally...finally isn't the Sentra CA the most environmentally friendly gasoline powered car in the US??

All you can give are race scenarios, like that's any good to the buying public. And Infiniti IS Nissan so that IRL reference is pretty lame.

And the "cleanest" gas cars sold in America are the Honda Insight and the Toyota Prius.

Also, Toyota is SUPPLYING Nissan with hybrid systems:

Under the deal unveiled Monday, Toyota will supply hybrid system components for Nissan models sold in the United States starting in 2006, targeting 100,000 vehicles over a five-year period, both sides said.

http://www.auto.com/industry/iwira3_20020903.htm

Who said anything about hte buying public? I was talkin about these company's as an engine manufacturing company for designing the best engines not specifically for consumer interest. Also, I used Infiniti since the engine is badged under Infiniti ( I know its a Nissan) and I don't see how that is lame.

And about teh Sentra CA I was talking about a gasoline engine car, not a hybrid. But yes your are right on that frnt that Honda/Toyota are leaders in that field. But I don't really give a damn about that (not now anyway) so to me its a moot point.

I care about engines that excite you and have emotion. Honda and Nissan have those engines...Toyota sadly does not (apart from the 2GZE and the older 1.6L in the Corollas). And again, i don't give a damn about what the buying public wants.

1) The point was that other companies use Honda/Toyota technology in their production models. This technology is available for customers to purchase. I don't see Nissan in any cross company powertrain deals other than Toyota supplying them with hybrid systems

2) Sentra CA? Never heard of it. I'd be willing to bet that the ULEV Civics are the cleanest

3) The only "excitement" to be had in a Honda vehicle is from an S2000, Integra, NSX, or RSX IMHO. V6 Accords don't exactly pour out emotion or excitement. Refinement, YES. You may not give a damn what the buying public wants, but they make a BIG impact on what YOU are able to buy. Don't belive me, look at what happened in the 90's to:

300ZX
RX7
Supra
240SX
MR2

All were victims of people flocking to SUV's and family sedans. While three of those cars have come back in new incarnations, the buying public is a fickle bunch and they help determine what a manufacturer WILL or WILL NOT produce. But for you to sit here and say that you don't care about what the buying public wants is a bit uninformed.

Cars up on the block next may include the Acura CL/CL Type-S due to poor sales. The point is, you can act like you're in your own little wonder land of performance and tire shredding, but you're not the only that decides what's "hip" or what's production worthy.

The Sentra CA is only sold in California to meet their environmental demands (on a side: is CA really that bad that they need to have the strictest emission laws in the States??)

I know what you mean about the what the buying public wants and I am upset that they did not want teh Supra/300ZX/240SX/etc.. but that is not the point of this thread. The thread is about engine manufacturing.

btw, when I mentioned Honda, I meant the motors in the cars you mentioned...not the Accord/etc.

And the only two economical car companies that interest me now are Mazda and Nissan. Both have sporting character in all products in their line-up.

anyway lets end this: all 3 manufactueres make good engines..if you want fun and power go Nissan, if you want a engine for your mom, go Toyota, if you want a high-reving banshee that will make you crap your pants and have a ear-to-ear grin, go for Honda's sports(y) cars.

LAUST: which Nissan has a 2.8L engine?

 

[LAUST]

Delete

 

[flyfish]

Originally posted by: LAUST
As far as ease of workin on, Honda

, but Toyo has one thing aginst them... the 4.7 is total crap, no low end at all, and if you put any stress on the motor it's valves go to hell in under 50K

#1 Honda
#2 Toyo
#900 Nissan

I have a Toyota Tundra with a 4.7 V8. I have never had any problems. It seems to have a lot of low end to me.
HP (SAE Net) 245 HP @ 4,800 RPM
Torque 315 lb.-ft. @ 3,400 RPM
The same engine in a Lexus is tuned to do 290HP.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: LAUST
As far as ease of workin on, Honda

As far as the worst to work on.. Nissan.. that 2.8 can kiss my A$$ and I hope my sister in law sells hers cause I'm tired of that car.

Toyota and Honda I'd say are both pretty easy to work on, but Toyo has one thing aginst them... the 4.7 is total crap, no low end at all, and if you put any stress on the motor it's valves go to hell in under 50K

#1 Honda
#2 Toyo
#900 Nissan

Well, there's one opinion I respect on this matter

I think the 4.7 will do great after toyo revamps the heads for it too (maybe it'll happen with their new 5.4), when I did a valve job on my sisters 93 Camry (220K miles) they were almost all still in perfect adjustment, and she lives in Conifer so she does mountian driving every day she drives (very stressful) not too mention she's a typical female driver

As far as even looking at smaller motors (2 stroke) I like honda's there too, I'd get a 125 Honda, but I'm lookin more into the Rotax class.

Well, I read today that Toyota will be revising the 4.7 for more horsepower for '04 so they may be revamping the heads on it. Still, Toyota SERIOUSLY needs that 5.4 though to compete.

 

[LAUST]

.

 

[LXi]

Hm... so the Nissan V6 qualifies as an exciting engine and Honda V6 does not? Why not?

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: LAUST
As far as ease of workin on, Honda

As far as the worst to work on.. Nissan.. that 2.8 can kiss my A$$ and I hope my sister in law sells hers cause I'm tired of that car.

Toyota and Honda I'd say are both pretty easy to work on, but Toyo has one thing aginst them... the 4.7 is total crap, no low end at all, and if you put any stress on the motor it's valves go to hell in under 50K

#1 Honda
#2 Toyo
#900 Nissan

Well, there's one opinion I respect on this matter

I think the 4.7 will do great after toyo revamps the heads for it too (maybe it'll happen with their new 5.4), when I did a valve job on my sisters 93 Camry (220K miles) they were almost all still in perfect adjustment, and she lives in Conifer so she does mountian driving every day she drives (very stressful) not too mention she's a typical female driver

As far as even looking at smaller motors (2 stroke) I like honda's there too, I'd get a 125 Honda, but I'm lookin more into the Rotax class.

Well, I read today that Toyota will be revising the 4.7 for more horsepower for '04 so they may be revamping the heads on it. Still, Toyota SERIOUSLY needs that 5.4 though to compete.

If they get the 5.4 out with some good low end grunt they will have a good full size for certain.

mAD Indian the 2.8 was a typo it's the 2.4 in a 99 Altima, I took off the air filter last week, 40 K miles and full of oil, nothing big but that still seems early for a PCV valve to be goin.

Hmmm..i have the same 2.4L in my 240SX..it has around 90k miles running Amsoil syn oil..it seems to be fine. Don't scare me about PCV vavles (altho those are easy to replace right?) I'm more worried about my tranny!!

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: LXi
Hm... so the Nissan V6 qualifies as an exciting engine and Honda V6 does not? Why not?

Only one way to find out, drive them both. See all this is subjective. What I like, you may not. But thats the whole point of a message board, to discuss such matters.

 

[LXi]

You and NFS4 spoke it like it was the truth or something... NFS4 went, the *ONLY* excitment found in Honda is S2000, Integra, NSX, RSX. You know, I wouldn't really agree with that, the discontinued Prelude had a pretty damn good engine, so did the '99-'00 Civic Si, and I would say the new V6 in the Accord is a good engine too. Nissan put their VQ in like 6 or 7 of their cars, Honda isn't going with that approach, but that doesn't mean it isn't a good engine.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: LXi
You and NFS4 spoke it like it was the truth or something... NFS4 went, the *ONLY* excitment found in Honda is S2000, Integra, NSX, RSX. You know, I wouldn't really agree with that, the discontinued Prelude had a pretty damn good engine, so did the '99-'00 Civic Si, and I would say the new V6 in the Accord is a good engine too. Nissan put their VQ in like 6 or 7 of their cars, Honda isn't going with that approach, but that doesn't mean it isn't a good engine.

I should have said "current" models. I was talking about the current Honda models and Japan's smoking hot Integra Type-R (which is our RSX Type-S on crack). The current Civic Si can't hold a candle to the '99-'00's IMHO.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: LAUST
As far as ease of workin on, Honda

As far as the worst to work on.. Nissan.. that 2.8 can kiss my A$$ and I hope my sister in law sells hers cause I'm tired of that car.

Toyota and Honda I'd say are both pretty easy to work on, but Toyo has one thing aginst them... the 4.7 is total crap, no low end at all, and if you put any stress on the motor it's valves go to hell in under 50K

#1 Honda
#2 Toyo
#900 Nissan

Well, there's one opinion I respect on this matter

I think the 4.7 will do great after toyo revamps the heads for it too (maybe it'll happen with their new 5.4), when I did a valve job on my sisters 93 Camry (220K miles) they were almost all still in perfect adjustment, and she lives in Conifer so she does mountian driving every day she drives (very stressful) not too mention she's a typical female driver

As far as even looking at smaller motors (2 stroke) I like honda's there too, I'd get a 125 Honda, but I'm lookin more into the Rotax class.

Well, I read today that Toyota will be revising the 4.7 for more horsepower for '04 so they may be revamping the heads on it. Still, Toyota SERIOUSLY needs that 5.4 though to compete.

If they get the 5.4 out with some good low end grunt they will have a good full size for certain.

mAD Indian the 2.8 was a typo it's the 2.4 in a 99 Altima, I took off the air filter last week, 40 K miles and full of oil, nothing big but that still seems early for a PCV valve to be goin.

Hmmm..i have the same 2.4L in my 240SX..it has around 90k miles running Amsoil syn oil..it seems to be fine. Don't scare me about PCV vavles (altho those are easy to replace right?) I'm more worried about my tranny!!

Smart man. If I were you, I'd use their oil filters also. You can use their air filters, too.. I am not sure if there are better ones though. But they're certainly better than the 4% paper pieces of garbage. It doesen't matter how good your oil is if your oil filter is a piece of garbage. Even the best oil is reduced to useless if it has particlulates in it.

People overlook that so often, it's not even funny. Your oil filter and air filter are the single two most important things that contribute to engine life(or lack of). Changing your oil is right up there, too. The best method is prevention. A lot of what your engine sucks up ends up in your oil. If you can keep it out of there in the first place, you're way ahead. If you can then remove particulates that are introduced through surfaces mating, and combustion blow-by.. you can expect your engine to outlast others 2 to 1, everything else being equal.

If you walk into Napa and buy a 4$ air filter and a 6$ oil filter for your 25,000$ car.. you're doing yourself a great disservice.

 

[wellerdball]

toyota/honda suv<nissan suvs lol@ nissans 12VALVE V6

 

[bolido2000]

Originally posted by: NFS4
Also, when it comes to hybrids, Toyota and Honda have Nissan whooped.

When Nissan wanted to develop hybrid powertrains for their cars, who did they go to??? They signed a deal with Toyota to use THEIR technology.

Who did GM go for hybrid engine technology?? They too signed a deal with Toyota.

Where did GM go when they wanted to put a new V6 engine in their VUE sport-ute for the next model year?? They signed a deal with Honda to provide them with SOHC 3.0 liter V6 engines.

Too bad no one leans on Nissan for engines...I wonder why??

That doesn't mean nissan engineering is inferior. Toyota has a sh!tload of cash reserves compared to the struggling Nissan. It just doesn't make financial sense for nissan to invest so much in R&D to make a Hybrid engine.


We can argue all day about which engine is better and this and that......
Fact is.....Which engine has been on Ward's 10 best engine every year since its introduction and considered one of the best V6 in the US? (Hint: is not made by honda or Toyota)

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: bolido2000

Originally posted by: NFS4
Also, when it comes to hybrids, Toyota and Honda have Nissan whooped.

When Nissan wanted to develop hybrid powertrains for their cars, who did they go to??? They signed a deal with Toyota to use THEIR technology.

Who did GM go for hybrid engine technology?? They too signed a deal with Toyota.

Where did GM go when they wanted to put a new V6 engine in their VUE sport-ute for the next model year?? They signed a deal with Honda to provide them with SOHC 3.0 liter V6 engines.

Too bad no one leans on Nissan for engines...I wonder why??

That doesn't mean nissan engineering is inferior. Toyota has a sh!tload of cash reserves compared to the struggling Nissan. It just doesn't make financial sense for nissan to invest so much in R&D to make a Hybrid engine.


We can argue all day about which engine is better and this and that......
Fact is.....Which engine has been on Ward's 10 best engine every year since its introduction and considered one of the best V6 in the US? (Hint: is not made by honda or Toyota)

What are the basis for comparison?

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: bolido2000

Originally posted by: NFS4
Also, when it comes to hybrids, Toyota and Honda have Nissan whooped.

When Nissan wanted to develop hybrid powertrains for their cars, who did they go to??? They signed a deal with Toyota to use THEIR technology.

Who did GM go for hybrid engine technology?? They too signed a deal with Toyota.

Where did GM go when they wanted to put a new V6 engine in their VUE sport-ute for the next model year?? They signed a deal with Honda to provide them with SOHC 3.0 liter V6 engines.

Too bad no one leans on Nissan for engines...I wonder why??

That doesn't mean nissan engineering is inferior. Toyota has a sh!tload of cash reserves compared to the struggling Nissan. It just doesn't make financial sense for nissan to invest so much in R&D to make a Hybrid engine.


We can argue all day about which engine is better and this and that......
Fact is.....Which engine has been on Ward's 10 best engine every year since its introduction and considered one of the best V6 in the US? (Hint: is not made by honda or Toyota)

What are the basis for comparison?

Smoothness, efficiency, power delivery, packaging, engineering I believe.

Amsoil makes oil filters? Any idea what they look like? I mean are the green with OIL FILTER written on them? I don't know where to find Amsoil filters in Toronto, the basic choices we have are Motomaster, Puralator, and Quaker State.

But ya, Amsoil makes great oil...the car really is much smoother. I can't wait to put their syn oil in the tranny.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: bolido2000

Originally posted by: NFS4
Also, when it comes to hybrids, Toyota and Honda have Nissan whooped.

When Nissan wanted to develop hybrid powertrains for their cars, who did they go to??? They signed a deal with Toyota to use THEIR technology.

Who did GM go for hybrid engine technology?? They too signed a deal with Toyota.

Where did GM go when they wanted to put a new V6 engine in their VUE sport-ute for the next model year?? They signed a deal with Honda to provide them with SOHC 3.0 liter V6 engines.

Too bad no one leans on Nissan for engines...I wonder why??

That doesn't mean nissan engineering is inferior. Toyota has a sh!tload of cash reserves compared to the struggling Nissan. It just doesn't make financial sense for nissan to invest so much in R&D to make a Hybrid engine.


We can argue all day about which engine is better and this and that......
Fact is.....Which engine has been on Ward's 10 best engine every year since its introduction and considered one of the best V6 in the US? (Hint: is not made by honda or Toyota)

What are the basis for comparison?

Smoothness, efficiency, power delivery, packaging, engineering I believe.

Amsoil makes oil filters? Any idea what they look like? I mean are the green with OIL FILTER written on them? I don't know where to find Amsoil filters in Toronto, the basic choices we have are Motomaster, Puralator, and Quaker State.

But ya, Amsoil makes great oil...the car really is much smoother. I can't wait to put their syn oil in the tranny.

Yes, AMSOil makes oil filters. I dunno, they have some pics on their site. Just look like a normal white oil filter. They have large capacities.. they also have bypass oil filters.. that remove particles as small as 0.1 microns.. that's damn impressive.

I don't really know about their air filters. I think a properly oiled and maintained K & N air filter would be better.

AMSOil air and oil filters

Yeah. Get that good lube in your tranny.

 

[CStan]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: NFS4

Uh...Lola uses Nissan engines (3l VQ) in the Le Mans and various other races, Infiniti uses Nissan's V8s in IRL (I think that's the series..not sure), I believe Toyota/Nissan were sharing technology equally...finally isn't the Sentra CA the most environmentally friendly gasoline powered car in the US??

All you can give are race scenarios, like that's any good to the buying public. And Infiniti IS Nissan so that IRL reference is pretty lame.

And the "cleanest" gas cars sold in America are the Honda Insight and the Toyota Prius.

Also, Toyota is SUPPLYING Nissan with hybrid systems:

Under the deal unveiled Monday, Toyota will supply hybrid system components for Nissan models sold in the United States starting in 2006, targeting 100,000 vehicles over a five-year period, both sides said.

http://www.auto.com/industry/iwira3_20020903.htm

Who said anything about hte buying public? I was talkin about these company's as an engine manufacturing company for designing the best engines not specifically for consumer interest. Also, I used Infiniti since the engine is badged under Infiniti ( I know its a Nissan) and I don't see how that is lame.

And about teh Sentra CA I was talking about a gasoline engine car, not a hybrid. But yes your are right on that frnt that Honda/Toyota are leaders in that field. But I don't really give a damn about that (not now anyway) so to me its a moot point.

I care about engines that excite you and have emotion. Honda and Nissan have those engines...Toyota sadly does not (apart from the 2GZE and the older 1.6L in the Corollas). And again, i don't give a damn about what the buying public wants.

1) The point was that other companies use Honda/Toyota technology in their production models. This technology is available for customers to purchase. I don't see Nissan in any cross company powertrain deals other than Toyota supplying them with hybrid systems

2) Sentra CA? Never heard of it. I'd be willing to bet that the ULEV Civics are the cleanest

3) The only "excitement" to be had in a Honda vehicle is from an S2000, Integra, NSX, or RSX IMHO. V6 Accords don't exactly pour out emotion or excitement. Refinement, YES. You may not give a damn what the buying public wants, but they make a BIG impact on what YOU are able to buy. Don't belive me, look at what happened in the 90's to:

300ZX
RX7
Supra
240SX
MR2

All were victims of people flocking to SUV's and family sedans. While three of those cars have come back in new incarnations, the buying public is a fickle bunch and they help determine what a manufacturer WILL or WILL NOT produce. But for you to sit here and say that you don't care about what the buying public wants is a bit uninformed.

Cars up on the block next may include the Acura CL/CL Type-S due to poor sales. The point is, you can act like you're in your own little wonder land of performance and tire shredding, but you're not the only that decides what's "hip" or what's production worthy.

IIRC, Nissan supplied the 3.0L VQ engines in the Mercury Villager. (Or they built the whole thing, I forget)

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: CStan

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: NFS4

Uh...Lola uses Nissan engines (3l VQ) in the Le Mans and various other races, Infiniti uses Nissan's V8s in IRL (I think that's the series..not sure), I believe Toyota/Nissan were sharing technology equally...finally isn't the Sentra CA the most environmentally friendly gasoline powered car in the US??

All you can give are race scenarios, like that's any good to the buying public. And Infiniti IS Nissan so that IRL reference is pretty lame.

And the "cleanest" gas cars sold in America are the Honda Insight and the Toyota Prius.

Also, Toyota is SUPPLYING Nissan with hybrid systems:

Under the deal unveiled Monday, Toyota will supply hybrid system components for Nissan models sold in the United States starting in 2006, targeting 100,000 vehicles over a five-year period, both sides said.

http://www.auto.com/industry/iwira3_20020903.htm

Who said anything about hte buying public? I was talkin about these company's as an engine manufacturing company for designing the best engines not specifically for consumer interest. Also, I used Infiniti since the engine is badged under Infiniti ( I know its a Nissan) and I don't see how that is lame.

And about teh Sentra CA I was talking about a gasoline engine car, not a hybrid. But yes your are right on that frnt that Honda/Toyota are leaders in that field. But I don't really give a damn about that (not now anyway) so to me its a moot point.

I care about engines that excite you and have emotion. Honda and Nissan have those engines...Toyota sadly does not (apart from the 2GZE and the older 1.6L in the Corollas). And again, i don't give a damn about what the buying public wants.

1) The point was that other companies use Honda/Toyota technology in their production models. This technology is available for customers to purchase. I don't see Nissan in any cross company powertrain deals other than Toyota supplying them with hybrid systems

2) Sentra CA? Never heard of it. I'd be willing to bet that the ULEV Civics are the cleanest

3) The only "excitement" to be had in a Honda vehicle is from an S2000, Integra, NSX, or RSX IMHO. V6 Accords don't exactly pour out emotion or excitement. Refinement, YES. You may not give a damn what the buying public wants, but they make a BIG impact on what YOU are able to buy. Don't belive me, look at what happened in the 90's to:

300ZX
RX7
Supra
240SX
MR2

All were victims of people flocking to SUV's and family sedans. While three of those cars have come back in new incarnations, the buying public is a fickle bunch and they help determine what a manufacturer WILL or WILL NOT produce. But for you to sit here and say that you don't care about what the buying public wants is a bit uninformed.

Cars up on the block next may include the Acura CL/CL Type-S due to poor sales. The point is, you can act like you're in your own little wonder land of performance and tire shredding, but you're not the only that decides what's "hip" or what's production worthy.

IIRC, Nissan supplied the 3.0L VQ engines in the Mercury Villager. (Or they built the whole thing, I forget)

So Ford had a minivan made by Nissan which is buying hybrid components from Toyota which is GM's bitch.

 

[Howard]

Anyways, the more Hp you try to extract from a given engine size the less time that engine will last, especially if you drive it hard.

Not quite. If the engine is built for it, it can produce any amount of horsepower reliably. However, if it's running under crappy conditions, or if it's under a lot of strain (trying to pull a stump in fifth gear), the lifespan will shorten. Heck, if you make it run more efficiently, it'll last longer.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Howard

Anyways, the more Hp you try to extract from a given engine size the less time that engine will last, especially if you drive it hard.

Not quite. If the engine is built for it, it can produce any amount of horsepower reliably. However, if it's running under crappy conditions, or if it's under a lot of strain (trying to pull a stump in fifth gear), the lifespan will shorten. Heck, if you make it run more efficiently, it'll last longer.

It's kinda true. I said basically the same thing, except I added all other things being equal. That's the key. If you take ANY two engines, and build one up.. to make more power, the one that hasn't been modified will last longer.

 

[Eli]

So nobody wants to talk about this anymore?

It's a fun topic.

 

[Eli]

I guess not.

 

[slikmunks]

i'm gonna have to drop off my 2 cents here... reliability, i'd have to say goes to honda and toyota... you see some OLD hondas and toyotas out there... but performance engines... i'm a rotary guy, so i'm going to have to say mazda's 13bt or 13b-rew... and then if you REALLY want performance, you go 20bt. Between the rotary, and a somewhat lightweight sports car, that's where the fun's at...

 

[slikmunks]

oh... mazda's not an option... well, nm then...

 

[LAUST]

Originally posted by: slikmunks
oh... mazda's not an option... well, nm then...

FordZda