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Honda kills everything cool about themselves

Honda is a joke. Acura is the punchline.
Honda has pretty much decided that it's going to be the mediocre car company, and Acura is going to be Japanese Mercury.
 
How are they going to become toyota. They never had a v8, or many rwd vehicles. Something toyota has. Seems like moving away from toyota to me.
 
So Honda is going to be what, a company with a half dozen or so vehicles, each with three or four trim levels and the only options will be color? This reminds me of that bit on Top Gear when they were making fun of the German companies. You can either have it in black, grey or black!
 
Seriously Honda does suck. They went from being at the top of engine technology in the 90's to being even behind the domestics nowadays. The problem is that they WANT to be Toyota but are failing to grasp that "not being Toyota" is what made them what they are.

So they've been wallowing in mediocrity for a while now IMHO, and Acura especially as a brand is dead to me.

So the Civic SI is now their lone "performance" model? What a joke.
 
Originally posted by: ayabe
Seriously Honda does suck. They went from being at the top of engine technology in the 90's to being even behind the domestics nowadays. The problem is that they WANT to be Toyota but are failing to grasp that "not being Toyota" is what made them what they are.

So they've been wallowing in mediocrity for a while now IMHO, and Acura especially as a brand is dead to me.

So the Civic SI is now their lone "performance" model? What a joke.
Click to expand...

TL Type S and CSX Type S (Canada)
 
Originally posted by: BassBomb
Originally posted by: ayabe
Seriously Honda does suck. They went from being at the top of engine technology in the 90's to being even behind the domestics nowadays. The problem is that they WANT to be Toyota but are failing to grasp that "not being Toyota" is what made them what they are.

So they've been wallowing in mediocrity for a while now IMHO, and Acura especially as a brand is dead to me.

So the Civic SI is now their lone "performance" model? What a joke.
Click to expand...

TL Type S and CSX Type S (Canada)
Click to expand...

The CSX Type S is basically just a more posh Civic SI...so that doesn't really count twice.

The TL is FWD, which makes it hard to compete with the likes of the BMW 335i and Infiniti G37.

It's sad that HMC is killing off all of their "exciting" cars. They should keep the S2000, NSX, and bring the JDM CTR here if only to boost their brand image.
 
Originally posted by: Strk
So Honda is going to be what, a company with a half dozen or so vehicles, each with three or four trim levels and the only options will be color? This reminds me of that bit on Top Gear when they were making fun of the German companies. You can either have it in black, grey or black!
Click to expand...

You mean, exactly what they were in the early 90's glory years?

Civic, Accord, Prelude, Legend. Three trim levels on most models.

No high performance cars. No trucks. No vans. No big luxury cars. No convertibles.

And yet, they were probably the best company on the planet for segments in which they competed.

And this sounds like a bad strategy why?

Their CEO was recently named the most important man in the automobile world by Motor Trend (not that I'm a huge fan of Motor Trend). The primary reason he got the award is that he had the foresight not to overextend the brand (and even that conservatism has proved to be too liberal for the current climate). They had two cars in Car and Driver's 10 Best this year (some years they do even better), and both models will continue to be built.

The S2000 was hand-built and likely had an extremely low profit margin. All the Germans are moving out of big engines as fast as they can. BMW is killing the V10 and the V12. Mercedes is killing the V12. For Honda to focus on their critically-acclaimed V6 range rather than their V10 or V8 is a similar decision. Many companies are dropping niche models such as coupes and convertible versions of cars. Efficiency is the name of the game, not only for cars, but for companies.

You guys need to realize that there is a difference between making money while positioning the brand for the future and making halo cars that most of us will never buy, even if we consider ourselves car lovers. One option isn't too sexy, but it means the company will survive to build that S3000 in ten years. The other option is sexy and results in bankruptcy.

Think of this as doing the exact opposite of what the Big Three did over the last 20 years. That sounds like a pretty damn good idea to me.
 
Originally posted by: 996GT2
Originally posted by: BassBomb
Originally posted by: ayabe
Seriously Honda does suck. They went from being at the top of engine technology in the 90's to being even behind the domestics nowadays. The problem is that they WANT to be Toyota but are failing to grasp that "not being Toyota" is what made them what they are.

So they've been wallowing in mediocrity for a while now IMHO, and Acura especially as a brand is dead to me.

So the Civic SI is now their lone "performance" model? What a joke.
Click to expand...

TL Type S and CSX Type S (Canada)
Click to expand...

The CSX Type S is basically just a more posh Civic SI...so that doesn't really count twice.

The TL is FWD, which makes it hard to compete with the likes of the BMW 335i and Infiniti G37.

It's sad that HMC is killing off all of their "exciting" cars. They should keep the S2000, NSX, and bring the JDM CTR here if only to boost their brand image.
Click to expand...

The CSX Type S has the same sheet metal as the Japanese Civic Type R. If I had the money, I'd definitely get the CSX Type S, then mod it to make it look like the MugenRR.

The TL has SH-AWD option. However, the front grille and interior is UGLY, along with all that plastic under the hood.


I can understand why Honda is stopping development of the NSX, S2000 replacement, and big V8 engines, but can't they at least fix up the Acura grilles?
 
Can't say that I blame them. They've got to cut back to avoid becoming Chrysler or GM.

You can't honestly expect a company to be investing tons of money in projects that offer little return in an economy like this.
 
Well one could also argue that their performance line of cars enhanced their image and brought a hell of a lot of sales to their volume products like the Civic.

Honda basically started the import craze and now they've abandoned it completely. Unfortunately, I think we'll be dealing with fart can Civics for many years to come. :disgust:
 
Originally posted by: thomsbrain
Originally posted by: Strk
So Honda is going to be what, a company with a half dozen or so vehicles, each with three or four trim levels and the only options will be color? This reminds me of that bit on Top Gear when they were making fun of the German companies. You can either have it in black, grey or black!
Click to expand...

You mean, exactly what they were in the early 90's glory years?

Civic, Accord, Prelude, Legend. Three trim levels on most models.

No high performance cars. No trucks. No vans. No big luxury cars. No convertibles.

And yet, they were probably the best company on the planet for segments in which they competed.

And this sounds like a bad strategy why?
Click to expand...
Because it's not the 90s anymore, when just being reliable was a huge advantage over competition. Simply being reliable is not enough when the competition is reliable, fun, exciting, more luxurious, more prestigious, etc. Look at Acura RL. Is it a bad car? No. But it not competitive in its segment. It brought a knife to a gun fight, something Honda continues to choose to do.
Their CEO was recently named the most important man in the automobile world by Motor Trend (not that I'm a huge fan of Motor Trend). The primary reason he got the award is that he had the foresight not to overextend the brand (and even that conservatism has proved to be too liberal for the current climate). They had two cars in Car and Driver's 10 Best this year (some years they do even better), and both models will continue to be built.

The S2000 was hand-built and likely had an extremely low profit margin. All the Germans are moving out of big engines as fast as they can. BMW is killing the V10 and the V12. Mercedes is killing the V12. For Honda to focus on their critically-acclaimed V6 range rather than their V10 or V8 is a similar decision. Many companies are dropping niche models such as coupes and convertible versions of cars. Efficiency is the name of the game, not only for cars, but for companies.
Click to expand...
V10 and V12 are not necessary to compete in the high end space, V8 is. As is RWD. Sure, Acura can decide that taking on Infiniti, BMW, Lexus, or Mercedes is too expensive, and decide to only compete with Volvos, Mercurys, and Saabs. That is it's prerogative. But it is commiting itself to mediocrity when it is capable of greatness.
I might even be able to forgive it not having a V8 if it had RWD in midrange models. But it is choosing to stick to basically pimped out Accords. No thanks.
You guys need to realize that there is a difference between making money while positioning the brand for the future and making halo cars that most of us will never buy, even if we consider ourselves car lovers. One option isn't too sexy, but it means the company will survive to build that S3000 in ten years. The other option is sexy and results in bankruptcy.
Think of this as doing the exact opposite of what the Big Three did over the last 20 years. That sounds like a pretty damn good idea to me.
Click to expand...

3, 5, 7 series are not Halo cars for BMW. G and M are not Halo cars for Infiniti. RWDs and V8s are not just for halo cars. They are bread and butter cars. This is a competitive segment, and Acura is now behind Hyundai when it comes to luxury cars. Think about it. Acura has no V8 or RWD, which Hyundai has. Acura is not even 2nd tier player in Luxury space, it's 3rd.
Behind frikken Hyundai.
 
Does all of this seem a little too short sighted?

I mean, hopefully in 1-2 years, the economy will be chugging along again.

Does it make sense to kill so much R&D?
 
Autos are like Video Cards, it might be nice to have the Best/Fastest/Most X in the Industry, but it's the Mass Produced Everyday Mid-Budget Product that will make you $$. Things like Prestige are useful, but expendable when Market conditions are just Bad for everyone. You're spending a lot of $$ for little real Return.
 
I don't care about any of this other than 2009 being the last year for the S2000. If true, I need to buy a nice used one to keep while the prices are depressed.
 
*lawnmower sounds*


Honda has always been the Walmart of automobile companies (except for the size). They thrive on value. Low prices, middle of the line quality. It's where you buy your car when you have no money. Honda: The Ramen Noodle of car companies.
 
Originally posted by: Strk
So Honda is going to be what, a company with a half dozen or so vehicles, each with three or four trim levels and the only options will be color? This reminds me of that bit on Top Gear when they were making fun of the German companies. You can either have it in black, grey or black!
Click to expand...

Almost like Subaru, the only car company not suffering from epic sales losses!
 
Originally posted by: XZeroII
*lawnmower sounds*


Honda has always been the Walmart of automobile companies (except for the size). They thrive on value. Low prices, middle of the line quality. It's where you buy your car when you have no money. Honda: The Ramen Noodle of car companies.
Click to expand...

Dude...........wait.......what? That makes absolutely no sense.
 
"cool" doesn't equate to profits. Their bread and butter is their reliability and economy. They are shifting focus to their more profitable items.
 
You can get reliability and economy from a Honda Accord. What's the point of paying thousands more for an Acura if economy is the top concern?
If you want to command a higher profit margin, you have to be cool too. You have to have an aspirational product. I would WANT to have an RWD Acura sedan or coupe, and willing to spend ten thousand over an Accord EX. Not so with a FWD Acura TL.
 
Originally posted by: senseamp
You can get reliability and economy from a Honda Accord. What's the point of paying thousands more for an Acura if economy is the top concern?
If you want to command a higher profit margin, you have to be cool too. You have to have an aspirational product. I would WANT to have an RWD Acura sedan or coupe, and willing to spend ten thousand over an Accord EX. Not so with a FWD Acura TL.
Click to expand...

And sometimes you want those bread and butter cars with a little more luxury, which is pretty much what acura stands for. Hence, they don't cost as big of a premium over Honda as a Lexus does over Toyota. Honda never liked big power, they've liked small and efficient. By killing these things, they're actually going back to what they focused on as a company.

You can't compare them to car brands in a different class. Yea, 3, 5, 7 series aren't halo cars for BMW, but comparable cars are for Honda. For example, Nissan has their GTR, which is definitely their halo car. It doesn't compete with a halo cars from Ferrari like the enzo. By your logic, Nissan should go and build a v12 million dollar car so they can have a "real" halo car?

From their sales figures, plenty of people pay extra over the accord for the fwd TL.
 
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