- Oct 10, 1999
- 31,386
- 12,869
- 136
http://www.budgetperformance.com/articles/hemidart/
And its 100% stock.
Bring on the Rice and Spaghetti boys.
And its 100% stock.
Bring on the Rice and Spaghetti boys.
SaigonK
Diamond Member
For all you ferrari and NSX and Stang boys...bite me.
Give me a two stroke - three cylinder 800cc snowmobile and a 1/4 mile track and I will own you all! And that's stock form the factory baby!
As a baseline, a late model standard 800cc triple cylinder engine snowmobile with asphalt track and skis on it is capable of running mid 10s at 120 with a 160-180 lb. driver. It takes a fair amount of test and tune time to find the right clutch setup to run those numbers, but those times are achievable without any engine modifications. A typical 800cc stock snowmobile makes 140-160 hp.
We have several snowmobiles competing on asphalt where I live in NY State. There are many sleds running 9s, some of them running low 9s at 140+ mph. These sleds are not trail machines. They are typically what would be considered "pro stock" sleds in grass racing. They feature lightweight chassis and full race engines of 1000cc or more. 220-250 hp is not unusual.
The sleds launch fast and hard; no shifting, no balancing, and no sidestand to hold them up in the staging lanes.
Auxiliary cooldown carts are needed. I use a cart with a bilge pump and a small car radiator/fan on it. After a run, hook up hoses via quick connects on the cooling system circulate the water through the radiator and back into the sled.
I run an "improved" stock 700cc sled. Improved stock means a modified engine and stock chassis. It runs 10.5s at 119 mph with typical 60-foot times in the 1.42-1.44 second range.
Give me a two stroke - three cylinder 800cc snowmobile and a 1/4 mile track and I will own you all!
And that's stock form the factory baby!As a baseline, a late model standard 800cc triple cylinder engine snowmobile with asphalt track and skis on it is capable of running mid 10s at 120 with a 160-180 lb. driver. It takes a fair amount of test and tune time to find the right clutch setup to run those numbers, but those times are achievable without any engine modifications. A typical 800cc stock snowmobile makes 140-160 hp.
We have several snowmobiles competing on asphalt where I live in NY State. There are many sleds running 9s, some of them running low 9s at 140+ mph. These sleds are not trail machines. They are typically what would be considered "pro stock" sleds in grass racing. They feature lightweight chassis and full race engines of 1000cc or more. 220-250 hp is not unusual.
The sleds launch fast and hard; no shifting, no balancing, and no sidestand to hold them up in the staging lanes.
Auxiliary cooldown carts are needed. I use a cart with a bilge pump and a small car radiator/fan on it. After a run, hook up hoses via quick connects on the cooling system circulate the water through the radiator and back into the sled.
I run an "improved" stock 700cc sled. Improved stock means a modified engine and stock chassis. It runs 10.5s at 119 mph with typical 60-foot times in the 1.42-1.44 second range.
- Dec 26, 1999
- 25,074
- 4
- 0
Originally posted by: Iron Woode
http://www.budgetperformance.com/articles/hemidart/
And its 100% stock.
Bring on the Rice and Spaghetti boys.
Ahh, the trump card of the domestic side - the HEMI Dart - what a piece of work that thing was...too bad they were officially street illegal. Awesome car nonetheless, we'll never see anything else like it
- Mar 20, 2000
- 102,407
- 8,595
- 126
and you've failed to show anything about j-spec nsx's other than postulating that they're making more hp. unless they're making 400 hp or are far lighter than US spec they're not currently touching the modena or the Z06. power to weight ratios are almost everything. since everything indicates the next NSX will also be making about 300 hp it will also have to be much lighter than the ferrari or Z06 to keep up.
SaigonK
Diamond Member
In working with one racer who was running a stock 97 mach Z, we were able to take his sled from 11.3s to 10.7s (1/4 mile times) by modifying his suspension as detailed in this article. That is a .6 second decrease in elapsed time with NO changes other than suspension. The sled cuts 1.39-1.41 60 foot times fairly consistently. That's pretty good for an essentially stock 750lb sled/driver combination. Before the suspension changes that sled was cutting 1.7x 60 foot times. Rule of thumb is whatever you can reduce your 60 foot time by will result in about twice that amount in ¼ mile ET reduction. So suspension setup is free ET.
SaigonK
Diamond Member
So to my point, anything can go fast. Its all about what you are riding.
I can probably beat 70% of all cars out there all pumped up on nitro and superhcarges and riced out with a measly 800cc snowmobile., Stock two stroke baby!
Just a comparison.
I can probably beat 70% of all cars out there all pumped up on nitro and superhcarges and riced out with a measly 800cc snowmobile.,
Stock two stroke baby!Just a comparison.
- Oct 10, 1999
- 31,386
- 12,869
- 136
I know one guy who owns one and he takes it on the street once and a while. OMG! The sound! That wonderfull earth shattering, riceboy melting sound from that hemi!Originally posted by: geno
Originally posted by: Iron Woode
http://www.budgetperformance.com/articles/hemidart/
And its 100% stock.
Bring on the Rice and Spaghetti boys.
Ahh, the trump card of the domestic side - the HEMI Dart - what a piece of work that thing was...too bad they were officially street illegal. Awesome car nonetheless, we'll never see anything else like it
The stuff dreams are made of.
You're right, no one will ever see anything like that again.
Doesn't look like the NSX-R can take a modena
Brief review=
2004 usdm NSX
3153 lbs.
290 hp @7100 rpm
224 ft-lbs. @ 5500 rpm
2001 NSX-r concept
290.1 bhp @ 7100 rpm
224.0 ft lbs @ 5500 rpm
1995 NSX-r
Kerb weight 3042 lb
280.0 bhp (208.8 kW)@7300 rpm
217 lbft(30 kgm)@5400 rpm
Ferrari 360
3064 lbs.
400@8500 rpm
275 ft-lbs.@4750 rpm
I've seen vids where an nsx will hang/beat a ferrari around the track, but it was really driver dependant, as most videos show the nsx losing. You guys check out Bestmotoring videos, they'll show you.
EDIT: since we're comparing japan's nsx's (the best nsx's), why not have it go up against the stradale?
Stradale:
2822 lbs.
425 hp @8500 rpm
275 ft-lbs.@4750 rpm
Brief review=
2004 usdm NSX
3153 lbs.
290 hp @7100 rpm
224 ft-lbs. @ 5500 rpm
2001 NSX-r concept
290.1 bhp @ 7100 rpm
224.0 ft lbs @ 5500 rpm
1995 NSX-r
Kerb weight 3042 lb
280.0 bhp (208.8 kW)@7300 rpm
217 lbft(30 kgm)@5400 rpm
Ferrari 360
3064 lbs.
400@8500 rpm
275 ft-lbs.@4750 rpm
I've seen vids where an nsx will hang/beat a ferrari around the track, but it was really driver dependant, as most videos show the nsx losing. You guys check out Bestmotoring videos, they'll show you.
EDIT: since we're comparing japan's nsx's (the best nsx's), why not have it go up against the stradale?
Stradale:
2822 lbs.
425 hp @8500 rpm
275 ft-lbs.@4750 rpm
Why would they say stupid stuff like that? Also, why won't they give it more power? Maybe use the 3.5L V6? Jeez.. a supercar shouldn't even have any engine other than one that is perfectly balanced. That means V8, V12, I6... NOT V6.
To the guy with the snowmobile...NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR SNOWMOBILE RUNNING 10s. We don't live in Alaska.
To the guy with the snowmobile...NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR SNOWMOBILE RUNNING 10s. We don't live in Alaska.
Are you sure? Typical American V8s aren't, but the European ones are. American V8s put two pistons on each crank whereas Ferrari splits the crank and has each piston on its own..
http://www.gm.com/company/gm_exp_live/archived_events/lemans/about/bloodlines.html
Cadillac engineers advance the Type 51 with the world's first inherently balanced crankshaft. By twisting each pair of journals 90 degrees to create a two-plane crankshaft, secondary shaking forces are eliminated. Adding appropriate counterweights cancels the V8's tendency to rock on its mounts. The smoother, quieter, inherently balanced V8 is first introduced in 1924 Cadillac V-63 models.
Cadillac engineers advance the Type 51 with the world's first inherently balanced crankshaft. By twisting each pair of journals 90 degrees to create a two-plane crankshaft, secondary shaking forces are eliminated. Adding appropriate counterweights cancels the V8's tendency to rock on its mounts. The smoother, quieter, inherently balanced V8 is first introduced in 1924 Cadillac V-63 models.
Umm...the physics of a American V8 is the same as the physics of a European V8. It has to do with physics not country of development. And yes Ferrari uses a flat-crank V8 in their 360 Modena (and I beleive older 355s) which is where they get that distinctive sound from. The engine still isn't naturally balanced, they use counterweights and other stuff to get rid of the vibrations.
Most modern engines are artifically balanced (as the excerpt about the Caddy V8 you posted above), but only inline 6s and V12s are NATURALLY balanced. There is a difference between artificially and naturally balanced engines. Mainly that artifically balanced engines use counterweights and other oddities that sap power. Granted when your making a healthy 400hp, the parastic losses of the counterweights are neglible.
note that when I say artificially balanced I don't mean that the engines are completely balanced, however the NVH is still reduced substantially to the point where its hard to feel the unbalanced-ness.
Btw, you have a 95 240 with the KA24DE, that engine is not counterbalanced <as far as I can tell>. Drive a 98 Altima (which shares the same engine which seems to be counterbalanced) and compare the way the engine revs to your 240SX. A world of difference. You can feel the harshness of the motor in the 240, but not in the Altima. However, I enjoyed the harshness so it wasn't a problem to me.
Horizontally-opposed engines are also balanced.Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
Umm...the physics of a American V8 is the same as the physics of a European V8. It has to do with physics not country of development. And yes Ferrari uses a flat-crank V8 in their 360 Modena (and I beleive older 355s) which is where they get that distinctive sound from. The engine still isn't naturally balanced, they use counterweights and other stuff to get rid of the vibrations.
Most modern engines are artifically balanced (as the excerpt about the Caddy V8 you posted above), but only inline 6s and V12s are NATURALLY balanced. There is a difference between artificially and naturally balanced engines. Mainly that artifically balanced engines use counterweights and other oddities that sap power. Granted when your making a healthy 400hp, the parastic losses of the counterweights are neglible.
note that when I say artificially balanced I don't mean that the engines are completely balanced, however the NVH is still reduced substantially to the point where its hard to feel the unbalanced-ness.
Btw, you have a 95 240 with the KA24DE, that engine is not counterbalanced <as far as I can tell>. Drive a 98 Altima (which shares the same engine which seems to be counterbalanced) and compare the way the engine revs to your 240SX. A world of difference. You can feel the harshness of the motor in the 240, but not in the Altima. However, I enjoyed the harshness so it wasn't a problem to me.
Originally posted by: Howard
Horizontally-opposed engines are also balanced.Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
Umm...the physics of a American V8 is the same as the physics of a European V8. It has to do with physics not country of development. And yes Ferrari uses a flat-crank V8 in their 360 Modena (and I beleive older 355s) which is where they get that distinctive sound from. The engine still isn't naturally balanced, they use counterweights and other stuff to get rid of the vibrations.
Most modern engines are artifically balanced (as the excerpt about the Caddy V8 you posted above), but only inline 6s and V12s are NATURALLY balanced. There is a difference between artificially and naturally balanced engines. Mainly that artifically balanced engines use counterweights and other oddities that sap power. Granted when your making a healthy 400hp, the parastic losses of the counterweights are neglible.
note that when I say artificially balanced I don't mean that the engines are completely balanced, however the NVH is still reduced substantially to the point where its hard to feel the unbalanced-ness.
Btw, you have a 95 240 with the KA24DE, that engine is not counterbalanced <as far as I can tell>. Drive a 98 Altima (which shares the same engine which seems to be counterbalanced) and compare the way the engine revs to your 240SX. A world of difference. You can feel the harshness of the motor in the 240, but not in the Altima. However, I enjoyed the harshness so it wasn't a problem to me.
are you sure? link?
Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
- 12,505
- 3
- 81
Originally posted by: Howard
Horizontally-opposed engines are also balanced.Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
Umm...the physics of a American V8 is the same as the physics of a European V8. It has to do with physics not country of development. And yes Ferrari uses a flat-crank V8 in their 360 Modena (and I beleive older 355s) which is where they get that distinctive sound from. The engine still isn't naturally balanced, they use counterweights and other stuff to get rid of the vibrations.
Most modern engines are artifically balanced (as the excerpt about the Caddy V8 you posted above), but only inline 6s and V12s are NATURALLY balanced. There is a difference between artificially and naturally balanced engines. Mainly that artifically balanced engines use counterweights and other oddities that sap power. Granted when your making a healthy 400hp, the parastic losses of the counterweights are neglible.
note that when I say artificially balanced I don't mean that the engines are completely balanced, however the NVH is still reduced substantially to the point where its hard to feel the unbalanced-ness.
Btw, you have a 95 240 with the KA24DE, that engine is not counterbalanced <as far as I can tell>. Drive a 98 Altima (which shares the same engine which seems to be counterbalanced) and compare the way the engine revs to your 240SX. A world of difference. You can feel the harshness of the motor in the 240, but not in the Altima. However, I enjoyed the harshness so it wasn't a problem to me.
V-16 and two liter or smaller four cylinder engines are also balanced.
Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
Originally posted by: Howard
Horizontally-opposed engines are also balanced.Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
Umm...the physics of a American V8 is the same as the physics of a European V8. It has to do with physics not country of development. And yes Ferrari uses a flat-crank V8 in their 360 Modena (and I beleive older 355s) which is where they get that distinctive sound from. The engine still isn't naturally balanced, they use counterweights and other stuff to get rid of the vibrations.
Most modern engines are artifically balanced (as the excerpt about the Caddy V8 you posted above), but only inline 6s and V12s are NATURALLY balanced. There is a difference between artificially and naturally balanced engines. Mainly that artifically balanced engines use counterweights and other oddities that sap power. Granted when your making a healthy 400hp, the parastic losses of the counterweights are neglible.
note that when I say artificially balanced I don't mean that the engines are completely balanced, however the NVH is still reduced substantially to the point where its hard to feel the unbalanced-ness.
Btw, you have a 95 240 with the KA24DE, that engine is not counterbalanced <as far as I can tell>. Drive a 98 Altima (which shares the same engine which seems to be counterbalanced) and compare the way the engine revs to your 240SX. A world of difference. You can feel the harshness of the motor in the 240, but not in the Altima. However, I enjoyed the harshness so it wasn't a problem to me.
V-16 and two liter or smaller four cylinder engines are also balanced.
Yeah V16s are naturally balanced.
< 2L four cylinders aren't naturally balanced. They are smoother than larger displacements 4cyls...but they aren't naturally balanced. If an engine is naturally balanced, then displacement won't really make a difference to its smoothness/vibrations characteristics.
Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
Originally posted by: Howard
Horizontally-opposed engines are also balanced.Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
Umm...the physics of a American V8 is the same as the physics of a European V8. It has to do with physics not country of development. And yes Ferrari uses a flat-crank V8 in their 360 Modena (and I beleive older 355s) which is where they get that distinctive sound from. The engine still isn't naturally balanced, they use counterweights and other stuff to get rid of the vibrations.
Most modern engines are artifically balanced (as the excerpt about the Caddy V8 you posted above), but only inline 6s and V12s are NATURALLY balanced. There is a difference between artificially and naturally balanced engines. Mainly that artifically balanced engines use counterweights and other oddities that sap power. Granted when your making a healthy 400hp, the parastic losses of the counterweights are neglible.
note that when I say artificially balanced I don't mean that the engines are completely balanced, however the NVH is still reduced substantially to the point where its hard to feel the unbalanced-ness.
Btw, you have a 95 240 with the KA24DE, that engine is not counterbalanced <as far as I can tell>. Drive a 98 Altima (which shares the same engine which seems to be counterbalanced) and compare the way the engine revs to your 240SX. A world of difference. You can feel the harshness of the motor in the 240, but not in the Altima. However, I enjoyed the harshness so it wasn't a problem to me.
V-16 and two liter or smaller four cylinder engines are also balanced.
Yeah V16s are naturally balanced.
< 2L four cylinders aren't naturally balanced. They are smoother than larger displacements 4cyls...but they aren't naturally balanced. If an engine is naturally balanced, then displacement won't really make a difference to its smoothness/vibrations characteristics.
Yeah I checked this site. V8s aren't balance after all.
Are you sure V16s are naturally balanced? Are I8s balanced?
I don't think so...we'd have to ask an owner of a Duesenberg for that.Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis
Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
Originally posted by: Howard
Horizontally-opposed engines are also balanced.Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
Umm...the physics of a American V8 is the same as the physics of a European V8. It has to do with physics not country of development. And yes Ferrari uses a flat-crank V8 in their 360 Modena (and I beleive older 355s) which is where they get that distinctive sound from. The engine still isn't naturally balanced, they use counterweights and other stuff to get rid of the vibrations.
Most modern engines are artifically balanced (as the excerpt about the Caddy V8 you posted above), but only inline 6s and V12s are NATURALLY balanced. There is a difference between artificially and naturally balanced engines. Mainly that artifically balanced engines use counterweights and other oddities that sap power. Granted when your making a healthy 400hp, the parastic losses of the counterweights are neglible.
note that when I say artificially balanced I don't mean that the engines are completely balanced, however the NVH is still reduced substantially to the point where its hard to feel the unbalanced-ness.
Btw, you have a 95 240 with the KA24DE, that engine is not counterbalanced <as far as I can tell>. Drive a 98 Altima (which shares the same engine which seems to be counterbalanced) and compare the way the engine revs to your 240SX. A world of difference. You can feel the harshness of the motor in the 240, but not in the Altima. However, I enjoyed the harshness so it wasn't a problem to me.
V-16 and two liter or smaller four cylinder engines are also balanced.
Yeah V16s are naturally balanced.
< 2L four cylinders aren't naturally balanced. They are smoother than larger displacements 4cyls...but they aren't naturally balanced. If an engine is naturally balanced, then displacement won't really make a difference to its smoothness/vibrations characteristics.
Yeah I checked this site. V8s aren't balance after all.
Are you sure V16s are naturally balanced? Are I8s balanced?
Actually I don't think V16's are naturally balanced.
I think V24s are (or would be theoretically) because inline 12s are balanced.
That would be really funny if they pull this off. Lots of people would either have to eat their words... or lots of people would really be disappointed.
But I have no doubts at all that Honda has the engineering capability do to so.
Lots of people would either have to eat their words... or lots of people would really be disappointed.But I have no doubts at all that Honda has the engineering capability do to so.
I think Honda needs to best the 360 by 10%. Its only fair since they've had all the time in the world. It would be almost pathetic if they don't. Granted this would mean 0-60 in 4.0 seconds or less and a top speed of 200mph. If the NSX fails to delivers though, Honda should just quit the supercar business. You can't make half baked sports cars and then call it a supercar.
Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
I don't think so...we'd have to ask an owner of a Duesenberg for that.Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis
Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
Originally posted by: Howard
Horizontally-opposed engines are also balanced.Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
Umm...the physics of a American V8 is the same as the physics of a European V8. It has to do with physics not country of development. And yes Ferrari uses a flat-crank V8 in their 360 Modena (and I beleive older 355s) which is where they get that distinctive sound from. The engine still isn't naturally balanced, they use counterweights and other stuff to get rid of the vibrations.
Most modern engines are artifically balanced (as the excerpt about the Caddy V8 you posted above), but only inline 6s and V12s are NATURALLY balanced. There is a difference between artificially and naturally balanced engines. Mainly that artifically balanced engines use counterweights and other oddities that sap power. Granted when your making a healthy 400hp, the parastic losses of the counterweights are neglible.
note that when I say artificially balanced I don't mean that the engines are completely balanced, however the NVH is still reduced substantially to the point where its hard to feel the unbalanced-ness.
Btw, you have a 95 240 with the KA24DE, that engine is not counterbalanced <as far as I can tell>. Drive a 98 Altima (which shares the same engine which seems to be counterbalanced) and compare the way the engine revs to your 240SX. A world of difference. You can feel the harshness of the motor in the 240, but not in the Altima. However, I enjoyed the harshness so it wasn't a problem to me.
V-16 and two liter or smaller four cylinder engines are also balanced.
Yeah V16s are naturally balanced.
< 2L four cylinders aren't naturally balanced. They are smoother than larger displacements 4cyls...but they aren't naturally balanced. If an engine is naturally balanced, then displacement won't really make a difference to its smoothness/vibrations characteristics.
Yeah I checked this site. V8s aren't balance after all.
Are you sure V16s are naturally balanced? Are I8s balanced?
Actually I don't think V16's are naturally balanced.
I think V24s are (or would be theoretically) because inline 12s are balanced.
Really it's inline 6s that are balanced and an inline 12 is 2 of those. So a V24 would be 4. Is there any such thing as an inline 12 or V24??
SaigonK
Diamond Member
Yeah..well i donyt drive an Acura and neithr do you, so why should you care about it?
The point is I could whip its ass from start to finish on a sled that runs on the snow and only $7000. So lets see pound for pound I would say my snowmobile kicks the snot out of just about any car you have drive or will ever drive.
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