Homosexuality, Wrong or Right? No flaming!

[Dudd]

Originally posted by: godspeedx

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Ok, well I'd like to hear your opinions on whether its wrong or right. I have a theory myself, that I will tell you later, but first I want to hear what all you think, and why. No flaming guys, lets not get outta hand

Okay, a serious answer then. I believe homosexuality is a sin, not denying that it is a natural impulse of some people. However, I think violence is a natural impulse as well, and so is self-pity, and so are other types of lust. Doesn't mean I think that people who act on their homosexual impulses are any worse than the rest of us, because we all sin, or that they should be in any way abused. God allowed people the freedom to make choices, to sin, and we're in no position to overrule that.

Think I can avoid flames from my opinion? Probably not. And that's why threads like this cause trouble.

Agreed 100%. Homosexuality IS a sin. You don't see any rallys for murderers or violence, claiming that it's ok, and that we should support them.

Who does homosexuality hurt? Who are the victims? Violence and murder hurt people, but being gay doesn't hurt anyone. I'm sorry, I can't believe in a God who arbitrarily makes things a sin.

 

[Shuxclams]

Homosexuality, Wrong or Right? neither
white or black
up or down
in or out
backwards or forwards
male or female
dog or cat





Idiots....







SHUX

 

[davestar]

there is NO universal morality, so there is no right or wrong. there is only artificial contstructs produced by humans (religion, philosophies, etc) which they then try to pass off as universal. claiming that homosexuality is "unnatural" is blatently incorrect - homosexuality occurs outside of human (unnatural) influence, in nature among animals. religion and other systems of belief can only be self-referential. there is no way to prove via religion or anything other human construct that something has or lacks morality. regardless of this, i imagine many posts will follow that use circular reasoning in a pointless attempt to persuade others that homosexuality is wrong...

 

[mithrandir2001]

I don't understand what would make it wrong. Two consenting adults can do whatever they want if their actions affect no one else. If my homosexual neighbors have sex in their own bedroom, does it have any affect on me? Nope.

 

[Maleficus]

wronger than wrong.

 

[jadinolf]

Originally posted by: bmacd
God made Adam and Eve...not Adam and Steve

-=bmacd=-

Wait a minute!



That's MY line.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: davestar
there is NO universal morality, so there is no right or wrong. ...

I like your post. But how about "the golden rule" as applied and carried out by the majority in every culture on earth. I think this "moral" consititues "universal" since it is universally accepted by the masses though societal conditioning?

 

[Krakerjak]

Wrong

The biological design of humans does not support what is involved in homosexual sex.
Ignoring all moral arguments (which are plentyful) it cannot be considered a right/proper/normal activity or practice.

For clarification, i consider a homosexual one that practices homosexual sex.
There are gay people who don't have sex but i just consider them confused or misinformed.

 

[0roo0roo]

funny how what is a sin changes through time eh?

maybe ethics is a better way to judge. arbitrary reasons why something is bad and why you should get huffy and judgemental is illogical.

this is one of the issues that remains a major strike against almost all religions.

 

[FelixDeCat]

One of the major drawbacks to this gay thing, males and females, is that it puts barriers between people.

Say you are in a marriage, or single and want to start a conversation with someone. If you happen to be male, most people react by thinking that you 'must be gay', or some other garbage like that.

And lets say you go somewhere with someone (who happens to be the same sex as you - even your own brother), if you are not a complete ass or a loudmouth then you must be gay. And people insist upon saying "i love you" behind your back or under their breath.

So thats why I say 'to hell' with the whole damn gay thing. Screws up everything.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
My personal take on homosexuality (this ought to get me banned) I's certianly not the way we evolved, and actually the percentage of the total population that is homosexual is pretty small-single digit percentages.

I also think some folks have gotten into it because they're control freaks, it's not enough to control someone of the opposite sex, they have to prove they can control someone of the same sex, for them, it's not a matter of sexual preference, it's a control issue.

I also have come to believe some of the rich/famous/powerful royality of the world have become homosexual because of the challenge, they can have virtually any man or woman they want, now they're ofter exotic game, and it can be much worse than homosexuality, that's a tame example of abberant sexual behavior, they become pedophiles, necrophiles, homosexual pedophiles, necrphile/homosexual pedophiles, the list goes on & on...

But that's just my personal opinion & I sure I'm bigoted & wrong on many levels...

Hey dude you need to pass around what ever you are smoking, you been on it to long. Let me guess you think woman should be in the hime and blacks should not be at the same schools, and etc......

:Q

You know I did grow up in the bible belt (anyone know that the bible belt population/geography almost perfectly matches the consumption/sales of Velveta Cheese?)

Anyway to answer your question, I value the contribution of all members of our society, and that we all have the same rights & responsibilities, reguardless of race, religion, color, etc, but @ this point in time, I'm one of those folks who feels uncomfortable with gay teachers, scout leaders, etc, and to the best of my knowledge, I have the right to have that opinion.

I further feel that segregation was a terrible crime, and one we'll be paying for as a society for some time to come.

Quit smoking pot a looonnngg time ago, one of those things a responsible adult sort of gives up when their job & other folks welfare depends on your being straight & sober.

WTF is a hime? If you mean home, no, women can & should do whatever they want to, I'm one of the 1% of guys in Texas that's been awarded custody of a child under the age of 10, hell I've been awarded guardianship of kids that weren't even mine genetically...

 

[davestar]

Originally posted by: Carbonyl

Originally posted by: davestar
there is NO universal morality, so there is no right or wrong. ...

I like your post. But how about "the golden rule" as applied and carried out by the majority in every culture on earth. I think this "moral" consititues "universal" since it is universally accepted by the masses though societal conditioning?

despite the widespread popularity of "the golden rule", there is nothing to negate the fact that it is a human construct, and therefore non-universal (as in exists independent of human reasoning).

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: davestar

Originally posted by: Carbonyl

Originally posted by: davestar
there is NO universal morality, so there is no right or wrong. ...

I like your post. But how about "the golden rule" as applied and carried out by the majority in every culture on earth. I think this "moral" consititues "universal" since it is universally accepted by the masses though societal conditioning?

despite the widespread popularity of "the golden rule", there is nothing to negate the fact that it is a human construct, and therefore non-universal (as in exists independent of human reasoning).

As a student of the human condition, you must admit there are averages, central tendancies, etc in human behavior that become the "norm" & that when you get into the values of single digit percentages of populations, they're not percieved as "normal" or adhering to the evidently valued behaviors of the rest of the group.

My concern, it that with your reasoning, any range of human behaviors could not be judged as "right"-helping an old woman across the street, or "wrong"-mugging the old woman.

Fact is in a society, values are attached to specific behaviors, homosexuality is one of the behaviors that our society is coming to terms with. Reproductive technology threatens to blow apart some of our long held beliefs, ie: "Well if everyone was homosexual, the human race would die off." isn't necessarily true any longer.

 

[davestar]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
As a student of the human condition, you must admit there are averages, central tendancies, etc in human behavior that become the "norm" & that when you get into the values of single digit percentages of populations, they're not percieved as "normal" or adhering to the evidently valued behaviors of the rest of the group.

My concern, it that with your reasoning, any range of human behaviors could not be judged as "right"-helping an old woman across the street, or "wrong"-mugging the old woman.

Fact is in a society, values are attached to specific behaviors, homosexuality is one of the behaviors that our society is coming to terms with. Reproductive technology threatens to blow apart some of our long held beliefs, ie: "Well if everyone was homosexual, the human race would die off." isn't necessarily true any longer.

i don't hold that my reasoning is opposed at all to what you have said. i simply dispute that there is an underlying morality to the world (or universe) which is independent of societal creations. thousands of years ago when man banned together and created the first "society" was an important and useful step in the journey to where we are today. it is convenient (and necessary) to have rules of thumb which we can employ in situations that call for a decision. however, that is all they are. if you pull back the layers behind these "rules of thumb" you will find, in most cases, simple biological/survival reasons behind them. at no point has anyone researched the origin of "thou shall not covet thy neighbor's wife" and discovered a universal force supporting monogamy.

 

[LeStEr]

Originally posted by: Zakath15
Hehe, speaking of flaming...

Hehe

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: davestar

Originally posted by: Carbonyl

Originally posted by: davestar
there is NO universal morality, so there is no right or wrong. ...

I like your post. But how about "the golden rule" as applied and carried out by the majority in every culture on earth. I think this "moral" consititues "universal" since it is universally accepted by the masses though societal conditioning?

despite the widespread popularity of "the golden rule", there is nothing to negate the fact that it is a human construct, and therefore non-universal (as in exists independent of human reasoning).

i don't hold that my reasoning is opposed at all to what you have said. i simply dispute that there is an underlying morality to the world (or universe) which is independent of societal creations. thousands of years ago when man banned together and created the first "society" was an important and useful step in the journey to where we are today. it is convenient (and necessary) to have rules of thumb which we can employ in situations that call for a decision. however, that is all they are. if you pull back the layers behind these "rules of thumb" you will find, in most cases, simple biological/survival reasons behind them. at no point has anyone researched the origin of "thou shall not covet thy neighbor's wife" and discovered a universal force supporting monogamy.

We are in agreement. I Just did'nt realise how you were using the term "universal" to exclude the posiblity of "universal majority human reasoning/conditioning" and instead using it as physical law or divine fact/edict, which yes, is preposterous .

 

[m0ti]

wow!

I'm really really surprised that there hasn't been any REAL flaming so far! Kudos to everybody for the self-control.


Right/wrong is obviously based on some moral compass which MUST be devoid of "universality" in the true meaning of the word. There is no "universal" morality, though there may be some things which are widely considered right vs. wrong. Gypsies, for example, (correct me if I'm wrong - which I may be) don't believe in personal ownership of property/items so stealing is not wrong. The idea of stealing doesn't even exist since to steal means to take something that belongs to someone without their permission.

Given that this is obviously intended as a PERSONAL question, there is no need to get into a universal vs non-universal debate.

Everybody has an opinion and that's that.

Me: it just is, and I couldn't care less. I don't think that gays should be discriminated against, I also, in general do not want to see it, though not particularly any less than heteros. Two guys can hold hands if they want to, and it wouldn't bother me a bit.

so no right/wrong for me.

And in terms of the biological/social arguments: plenty of heteros get married and don't have children on purpose (i.e. "Oh, we don't have kids. We've got dogs."). They've got about as much right in my opinion to social benefits from being married as would any "married" gay couple, and certainly no more.

 

[RanDum72]

My opinion is that gays and lesbians are still people and should be treated with respect and dignity. Whatever they do in their private lives is none of our business. If God is against their practice, then only God will deal with them. We are just people like them. We are equals.

 

[dethman]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
No flaming guys

bahahha

 

[alexruiz]

Originally posted by: Krakerjak
Wrong

The biological design of humans does not support what is involved in homosexual sex.
Ignoring all moral arguments (which are plentyful) it cannot be considered a right/proper/normal activity or practice.

For clarification, i consider a homosexual one that practices homosexual sex.
There are gay people who don't have sex but i just consider them confused or misinformed.

Said it straight as it should be. Forget morals and religion.... we are just not designed for that

 

[Evadman]

Who cares? Their choice.

 

[StageLeft]

Neither.

 

[mithrandir2001]

Originally posted by: m0ti
wow!

I'm really really surprised that there hasn't been any REAL flaming so far! Kudos to everybody for the self-control.

There's nothing to flame. Homosexuality is a normal part of nature. It's only controversial because of religious bigotry.

 

[0roo0roo]

talking about flaming in a thread about homosexuals.. lol

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: alexruiz

Originally posted by: Krakerjak
Wrong

The biological design of humans does not support what is involved in homosexual sex.
Ignoring all moral arguments (which are plentyful) it cannot be considered a right/proper/normal activity or practice.

For clarification, i consider a homosexual one that practices homosexual sex.
There are gay people who don't have sex but i just consider them confused or misinformed.

Said it straight as it should be. Forget morals and religion.... we are just not designed for that

What do you mean by not designed for it? Simply that it won't allow for reproduction. Certainly the species would be in trouble if the majority of the species were born gay, but thats not the case. Homosexuality occurs in the animal world as well. It is a minority part of the system. It has been going on for a looooooooooooooooong time. It doesn't bother me at all. It did to an extent as I was growing up, but as I got older I grew to accept it. I have known/know many gay people. Live and let live. I'm not here to spend my life getting on someone else's case when they aren't hurting anyone.

My opinion