Home Theater Surround Sound advice.

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YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
Aug 6, 2001
31,205
45
91
WOW, you've come a long way since I suggested getting some speakers for you new tv :D

Looks like you've kind of taken to the idea I suggested of "Another option would be to build up to a 5.1 system over time (like getting a receiver and a set of stereo speakers... then adding a sub, center channel, and surrounds as budget allows)" from your old thread.

I wish I would have done that to start with when I got my first system.

I got the Fluance SX-HTB set you linked to and a Dayton 10" tiny mighty from Partsexpress.
I think it was a great system for the money coupled with my HK AVR-325, but the thing that disappointed me the most was the center channel.
For someone who has been listening to integrated speakers on a 27" tv, the Fluance system and a cheap sub would certainly be a step up. It might get your appetite going though and pretty soon you might have upgradeitis.

I don't think it would be a bad idea to just get a HTIB to start with and see if you really want to spend more later. If you're not sure this is something you want to spend money on, why start off making a $2000 system?
I know I've said the opposite in the past to some people, but I thought I'd mention it to offer another point of view. If you want to upgrade later, you should be able to sell your HTIB to a friend or family member (or whoever) and recover most of the original cost.

That's basically what I ended up doing. I ended up selling my Fluance set, Sub, and receiver and recovered about 75% of what I paid for them a year earlier.
It was kind of like renting the HT set for $150 for 12 months of use :p
It made me decide I really liked having better sound and wanted to spend more money on it.

My new center channel cost about the same as my whole original HT set :Q

If you do end up going with a HTIB, I'd like to suggest the rocket tykes again like I mentioned in your original thread. I haven't heard them, but they get very good comments at AVSforum.
E-mail the friendly guys at av123 if you have any questions about it (or anything else!)

If you end up going for a $1000 receiver/stereo speaker set, there are a ton of great options.

This is pretty much the range I was looking at before if you consider $500 to $600 for a set of speakers.

I was looking at bookshelf speakers because I intended to run them with a sub, so most of these would be lacking in the bass department until you got a sub.
If you're looking for nice HT bass, a sub is really the way to go. In order to get equivalent bass from a set of stereo speakers, you're looking at a much higher cost vs a dedicated sub. (so what I'm saying is you're probably better off getting a good pair of bookshelf speakers or a floorstander with a focus on midrange and highs vs bass for now and adding a sub later).

Some options:
Ascend 340s
Axiom m22ti
Onix rockets (ok, the 550mkII is a little more than would fit into your $1000 range, but it's what I have so I know I like them)
Swan 4.1

Add in a nice $400 to $600 receiver and you have a really nice start.

 

aeroguy

Senior member
Mar 21, 2002
804
0
0
Originally posted by: skiersteve
For about $500, you can get a pretty solid HTIB from Onkyo...I have the 5.1 version of this and it works superbly in my small/medium family room for movies and music. I would highly reccomend it if you don't feel like spending too much money and/or time matching all your speakers as you add pieces later.

I have that also. Works fine for me, no complaints. I never really listen to music though, mostly for DVD viewing.
 

dxkj

Lifer
Feb 17, 2001
11,772
2
81
The problem is i have no clue how to compare the Rocket tykes to the Onyko HT-S780 system. They seem to be pretty comparable in cost
 

dxkj

Lifer
Feb 17, 2001
11,772
2
81
Originally posted by: aeroguy
Originally posted by: skiersteve
For about $500, you can get a pretty solid HTIB from Onkyo...I have the 5.1 version of this and it works superbly in my small/medium family room for movies and music. I would highly reccomend it if you don't feel like spending too much money and/or time matching all your speakers as you add pieces later.

I have that also. Works fine for me, no complaints. I never really listen to music though, mostly for DVD viewing.

Have you ever had the desire to upgrade for the lack of performance in movies, etc?
 

YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
Aug 6, 2001
31,205
45
91
Originally posted by: dxkj
The problem is i have no clue how to compare the Rocket tykes to the Onyko HT-S780 system. They seem to be pretty comparable in cost

If you wanted to spend the time/effort/shipping cost, every speaker company I listed gives you an audition period where you can order the product and then if you don't like it, you send it back (and pay for shipping).

I don't know if I'd suggest that for a $500 HTIB system because the shipping cost would probably not be worth it, but if you do get into the stereo pair/receiver idea, it could be a nice way to decide what you like.
 

dxkj

Lifer
Feb 17, 2001
11,772
2
81
Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Originally posted by: dxkj
The problem is i have no clue how to compare the Rocket tykes to the Onyko HT-S780 system. They seem to be pretty comparable in cost

If you wanted to spend the time/effort/shipping cost, every speaker company I listed gives you an audition period where you can order the product and then if you don't like it, you send it back (and pay for shipping).

I don't know if I'd suggest that for a $500 HTIB system because the shipping cost would probably not be worth it, but if you do get into the stereo pair/receiver idea, it could be a nice way to decide what you like.

I know that the Onyko's are onsale 4 miles from me at a circuit city, so im tempted to buy them, test them out, and then decide if they are good enough or return them


 

YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
Aug 6, 2001
31,205
45
91
Originally posted by: dxkj
Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Originally posted by: dxkj
The problem is i have no clue how to compare the Rocket tykes to the Onyko HT-S780 system. They seem to be pretty comparable in cost

If you wanted to spend the time/effort/shipping cost, every speaker company I listed gives you an audition period where you can order the product and then if you don't like it, you send it back (and pay for shipping).

I don't know if I'd suggest that for a $500 HTIB system because the shipping cost would probably not be worth it, but if you do get into the stereo pair/receiver idea, it could be a nice way to decide what you like.

I know that the Onyko's are onsale 4 miles from me at a circuit city, so im tempted to buy them, test them out, and then decide if they are good enough or return them

If it's like the stores around me, you should also be able to do a demo in the store :D

If it's a nicer store, they also might let you bring in a cd you know well and listen to it on the system to see how it sounds to you.

Onkyo HITB sets offer good bang for your buck, so I don't think you could go wrong with it for that price :thumbsup:
I bet you would enjoy it very much, especially if you're used to tv speakers!
 

Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
18,127
912
126
Originally posted by: dxkj
Originally posted by: aeroguy
Originally posted by: skiersteve
For about $500, you can get a pretty solid HTIB from Onkyo...I have the 5.1 version of this and it works superbly in my small/medium family room for movies and music. I would highly reccomend it if you don't feel like spending too much money and/or time matching all your speakers as you add pieces later.

I have that also. Works fine for me, no complaints. I never really listen to music though, mostly for DVD viewing.

Have you ever had the desire to upgrade for the lack of performance in movies, etc?
I can answer that, of course he has!!!:p You have to learn to live with what you can afford though. Make up your mind on a price, and then we can talk.:)

 

dxkj

Lifer
Feb 17, 2001
11,772
2
81
Originally posted by: Muadib
Originally posted by: dxkj
Originally posted by: aeroguy
Originally posted by: skiersteve
For about $500, you can get a pretty solid HTIB from Onkyo...I have the 5.1 version of this and it works superbly in my small/medium family room for movies and music. I would highly reccomend it if you don't feel like spending too much money and/or time matching all your speakers as you add pieces later.

I have that also. Works fine for me, no complaints. I never really listen to music though, mostly for DVD viewing.

Have you ever had the desire to upgrade for the lack of performance in movies, etc?
I can answer that, of course he has!!!:p You have to learn to live with what you can afford though. Make up your mind on a price, and then we can talk.:)



$500!!!!



:)


Edit: I dont want to buy the $100-200 cheapy sets of HITB, but I cant afford a full blow professional high end setup either. If it sounds "good" or even "not bad", i will be happy for a while.. like was mentioned above, right now i use 2 crappy built in tv speakers, so anything will be a huge upgrade :p

I think for 500 though, the onyko set doesnt look half bad... Im more of a "bang for your buck" person, more so than "super highend maximum best of best person"... I buy AMD procs to upgrade my system based on which is best performance for cost :)


The TV was a BIG splurge.... 500 on speakers for me, is a BIg splurge...


 

Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
18,127
912
126
Originally posted by: dxkj
Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Originally posted by: dxkj
The problem is i have no clue how to compare the Rocket tykes to the Onyko HT-S780 system. They seem to be pretty comparable in cost

If you wanted to spend the time/effort/shipping cost, every speaker company I listed gives you an audition period where you can order the product and then if you don't like it, you send it back (and pay for shipping).

I don't know if I'd suggest that for a $500 HTIB system because the shipping cost would probably not be worth it, but if you do get into the stereo pair/receiver idea, it could be a nice way to decide what you like.

I know that the Onyko's are onsale 4 miles from me at a circuit city, so im tempted to buy them, test them out, and then decide if they are good enough or return them
You should do just that. Any good audio store should let you do the same for at least a day.

 

Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
18,127
912
126
Originally posted by: dxkj
Originally posted by: Muadib
Originally posted by: dxkj
Originally posted by: aeroguy
Originally posted by: skiersteve
For about $500, you can get a pretty solid HTIB from Onkyo...I have the 5.1 version of this and it works superbly in my small/medium family room for movies and music. I would highly reccomend it if you don't feel like spending too much money and/or time matching all your speakers as you add pieces later.

I have that also. Works fine for me, no complaints. I never really listen to music though, mostly for DVD viewing.

Have you ever had the desire to upgrade for the lack of performance in movies, etc?
I can answer that, of course he has!!!:p You have to learn to live with what you can afford though. Make up your mind on a price, and then we can talk.:)



$500!!!!



:)


Edit: I dont want to buy the $100-200 cheapy sets of HITB, but I cant afford a full blow professional high end setup either. If it sounds "good" or even "not bad", i will be happy for a while.. like was mentioned above, right now i use 2 crappy built in tv speakers, so anything will be a huge upgrade :p

I think for 500 though, the onyko set doesnt look half bad... Im more of a "bang for your buck" person, more so than "super highend maximum best of best person"... I buy AMD procs to upgrade my system based on which is best performance for cost :)


The TV was a BIG splurge.... 500 on speakers for me, is a BIg splurge...
Give the onyko set a try then. If you don't like it take it back, and we can dicuss your next move. You will need more cash though. How do you feel about used stuff?

 

dxkj

Lifer
Feb 17, 2001
11,772
2
81
Originally posted by: Muadib
Originally posted by: dxkj
Originally posted by: Muadib
Originally posted by: dxkj
Originally posted by: aeroguy
Originally posted by: skiersteve
For about $500, you can get a pretty solid HTIB from Onkyo...I have the 5.1 version of this and it works superbly in my small/medium family room for movies and music. I would highly reccomend it if you don't feel like spending too much money and/or time matching all your speakers as you add pieces later.

I have that also. Works fine for me, no complaints. I never really listen to music though, mostly for DVD viewing.

Have you ever had the desire to upgrade for the lack of performance in movies, etc?
I can answer that, of course he has!!!:p You have to learn to live with what you can afford though. Make up your mind on a price, and then we can talk.:)



$500!!!!



:)


Edit: I dont want to buy the $100-200 cheapy sets of HITB, but I cant afford a full blow professional high end setup either. If it sounds "good" or even "not bad", i will be happy for a while.. like was mentioned above, right now i use 2 crappy built in tv speakers, so anything will be a huge upgrade :p

I think for 500 though, the onyko set doesnt look half bad... Im more of a "bang for your buck" person, more so than "super highend maximum best of best person"... I buy AMD procs to upgrade my system based on which is best performance for cost :)


The TV was a BIG splurge.... 500 on speakers for me, is a BIg splurge...
Give the onyko set a try then. If you don't like it take it back, and we can dicuss your next move. You will need more cash though. How do you feel about used stuff?


I love used stuff, it doesnt have to be pretty if it works


The way I look at it, after I take it out of the box and set it up, it is used
 

YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
Aug 6, 2001
31,205
45
91
Originally posted by: dxkj
Originally posted by: Muadib
Originally posted by: dxkj
Originally posted by: aeroguy
Originally posted by: skiersteve
For about $500, you can get a pretty solid HTIB from Onkyo...I have the 5.1 version of this and it works superbly in my small/medium family room for movies and music. I would highly reccomend it if you don't feel like spending too much money and/or time matching all your speakers as you add pieces later.

I have that also. Works fine for me, no complaints. I never really listen to music though, mostly for DVD viewing.

Have you ever had the desire to upgrade for the lack of performance in movies, etc?
I can answer that, of course he has!!!:p You have to learn to live with what you can afford though. Make up your mind on a price, and then we can talk.:)



$500!!!!



:)


Edit: I dont want to buy the $100-200 cheapy sets of HITB, but I cant afford a full blow professional high end setup either. If it sounds "good" or even "not bad", i will be happy for a while.. like was mentioned above, right now i use 2 crappy built in tv speakers, so anything will be a huge upgrade :p

I think for 500 though, the onyko set doesnt look half bad... Im more of a "bang for your buck" person, more so than "super highend maximum best of best person"... I buy AMD procs to upgrade my system based on which is best performance for cost :)


The TV was a BIG splurge.... 500 on speakers for me, is a BIg splurge...

I would consider all the options I mentioned as being good "bang for your buck" too, but I hear what you're saying :thumbsup:

I think for speakers (and pretty much in general) you get more bang for your buck buying internet direct products like the speakers I mentioned (vs spending the same amount on a product whose sales price have to support salesmen, showrooms, etc.)
 

Hossenfeffer

Diamond Member
Jul 16, 2000
7,462
1
0
My first home theater setup included a $50-60 set of KLH speakers which gave me exactly what I wanted, 5.1 surround. They worked just fine.
 

YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
Aug 6, 2001
31,205
45
91
Originally posted by: dxkj
Originally posted by: Muadib
Originally posted by: dxkj
Originally posted by: Muadib
Originally posted by: dxkj
Originally posted by: aeroguy
Originally posted by: skiersteve
For about $500, you can get a pretty solid HTIB from Onkyo...I have the 5.1 version of this and it works superbly in my small/medium family room for movies and music. I would highly reccomend it if you don't feel like spending too much money and/or time matching all your speakers as you add pieces later.

I have that also. Works fine for me, no complaints. I never really listen to music though, mostly for DVD viewing.

Have you ever had the desire to upgrade for the lack of performance in movies, etc?
I can answer that, of course he has!!!:p You have to learn to live with what you can afford though. Make up your mind on a price, and then we can talk.:)



$500!!!!



:)


Edit: I dont want to buy the $100-200 cheapy sets of HITB, but I cant afford a full blow professional high end setup either. If it sounds "good" or even "not bad", i will be happy for a while.. like was mentioned above, right now i use 2 crappy built in tv speakers, so anything will be a huge upgrade :p

I think for 500 though, the onyko set doesnt look half bad... Im more of a "bang for your buck" person, more so than "super highend maximum best of best person"... I buy AMD procs to upgrade my system based on which is best performance for cost :)


The TV was a BIG splurge.... 500 on speakers for me, is a BIg splurge...
Give the onyko set a try then. If you don't like it take it back, and we can dicuss your next move. You will need more cash though. How do you feel about used stuff?


I love used stuff, it doesnt have to be pretty if it works


The way I look at it, after I take it out of the box and set it up, it is used

If you do end up wanting something more, used receivers are a very popular way to go. You can get a very respectable brand name refurb receiver in the $300 to $400 range if you go refurb.
Speaker technology doesn't really change much from year to year, but with companies pumping out a new receiver version every year, there are a lot of great refurb units out there :)
 

apac

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2003
6,212
0
71
My history:

Found 2 bookshelf speakers in the summer house I subleased last year
Bought $80 stereo receiver from CC
Roommate brought some (slightly) better bookshelf speakers from home
Bought a 4 year old msrp $500 5.1 receiver for $200.
Bought Klipsch RF-35 front LR towers for $600 factory closeout.
Bought RC-35 center used for $200
Bought RS-3II surrounds used for $240
Given a Klipsch KSW-10 subwoofer from a friend

This was over the course of 1 year. My suggestion is to find exactly what you want, and then wait to find good deals on them. What's funny is before I bought the receiver I'd set my budget at $500 too.
 

YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
Aug 6, 2001
31,205
45
91
edit: whoops, linked to a used tykes set but i think it was just the speakers (no receiver) for $225, not the whole package
 

dxkj

Lifer
Feb 17, 2001
11,772
2
81
Update:

I bought the Onkyo's HT-S780 set... 7.1 surround sound and 230 watt subwoofer

110 watts per channel, 7 channels

8 ohm speaker needed.


The receiver looks really nice.... I forget if this was mentioned, but how many watts are the speakers in a HT set usually? 110 watts sounds like a decent amount of push from the receiver.
 

YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
Aug 6, 2001
31,205
45
91
Originally posted by: dxkj
Update:

I bought the Onkyo's HT-S780 set... 7.1 surround sound and 230 watt subwoofer

110 watts per channel, 7 channels

8 ohm speaker needed.


The receiver looks really nice.... I forget if this was mentioned, but how many watts are the speakers in a HT set usually? 110 watts sounds like a decent amount of push from the receiver.

I wouldn't really trust those ratings.

There are only a few companies that do a good job at advertising what their receivers actually put out.

Example results: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/3401/ratevsac.htm

I'd say the majority of HTIB sets advertise at somewhere around 100 watts per channel (even some incredibly cheap ones).

My Pioneer 1014 is rated at 110watts/channel and although there are some doubters a lot of people believe much of what's inside the 1014 is shared with the Pioneer Elite 52. If that's true it actually puts out over 100watts/channel which is rare for a budget/midrange receiver.

Anyway... wattage doesn't really matter all that much. Doubling wattage only gets you 3dB in volume increase if I remember correctly.

With an onkyo set, you did get a good receiver for the money... better than most HTIB sets come with. It should serve you well if you end up deciding you want to upgrade speakers in the future.
 

dxkj

Lifer
Feb 17, 2001
11,772
2
81
I noticed that I can set the system to do surround sound, even with only a right and left output from my dvd player

How much better will the surround be if i get a DVd player with 5.1 dolby outputs?
 

YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
Aug 6, 2001
31,205
45
91
Originally posted by: dxkj
I noticed that I can set the system to do surround sound, even with only a right and left output from my dvd player

How much better will the surround be if i get a DVd player with 5.1 dolby outputs?

So you only have analog out from you DVD player?

(no digital coaxial or digital optical)?

Right now your receiver can do surround processing on the stereo input and "fake" surround. I've heard it explained as basically taking stuff that's the same on the L and R and playing on the Center, playing in phase L and R on the respective speakers and out of phase stuff to the surrounds.

Generally this will get you voices out the center and some stuff coming out the rears.

I didn't really play around with non DD or DTS much because I had them available.

Pretty much any DVD player (even the really cheap ones) will have digital output now. You'll get a dedicated track for each speaker.

I think it makes a significant difference in action movies as opposed to drama etc. With mostly dialog and some music, dramas and such would be fine with just a Pro Logic sort of surround effects, but for action it's nice to have pans that sweep to the back nicely and a dedicated LFE track.

 

NTB

Diamond Member
Mar 26, 2001
5,179
0
0
Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Originally posted by: dxkj
I noticed that I can set the system to do surround sound, even with only a right and left output from my dvd player

How much better will the surround be if i get a DVd player with 5.1 dolby outputs?

So you only have analog out from you DVD player?

(no digital coaxial or digital optical)?

Right now your receiver can do surround processing on the stereo input and "fake" surround. I've heard it explained as basically taking stuff that's the same on the L and R and playing on the Center, playing in phase L and R on the respective speakers and out of phase stuff to the surrounds.

Generally this will get you voices out the center and some stuff coming out the rears.

I didn't really play around with non DD or DTS much because I had them available.

Pretty much any DVD player (even the really cheap ones) will have digital output now. You'll get a dedicated track for each speaker.

I think it makes a significant difference in action movies as opposed to drama etc. With mostly dialog and some music, dramas and such would be fine with just a Pro Logic sort of surround effects, but for action it's nice to have pans that sweep to the back nicely and a dedicated LFE track.

To clarify a bit: to find a digital output on your DVD player, you should look for one of two things (maybe there's both :) )

1. Digital Coax output looks just like the L/R jacks for stereo sound, except that it's usually colored orange.

2. Digital optical out should just be a little black square that you can push on, and part of it swings out of the way - it's a cover for the jack itself.

Otherwise, Yoyo's right - even cheapo DVD players come with some form of Digital out (my $30, 2 year old Toshiba uses digital Coax.)

Nate
 

Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
18,127
912
126
Congrats on your purchase. :beer:
I'm 99.99% sure that your DVD player has some sort of digital output. Having one is required for the DVD spec.