Home defense gun for a woman.

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Kelvrick

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: FDF12389

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: FDF12389
I would disagree with a .357 in most cases. This is one.

Why?

.357 is over powering, most women do not like shooting long heavy revolvers, they tend to be more comfortable with shorter handguns. A short .357 has too much recoil.

That's why you load it with .38 Special or .38 Special +P. Just because you have a .357 Magnum handgun doesn't mean you have to fire full-load .357 Magnum cartridges. A short .357 Magnum will easily handle any .38 Special loading you can put through it, and the weight will help steady the weapon as well as reduce the recoil when compared with a gun chambered only for .38 Special.

ZV

Yes, more weight/mass will reduce recoil, but it can be a bad thing. With less upper body strength, it will be harder to control, and they might not feel as comfortable with something so heavy.

For instance, a USP elite 9mm shoots like a kitty, but my gf will still have horrible groups with it. Same with an Sig X5 competition. She actually likes the beretta PX4 9mm the most. In 9mm pistol form anyway, otherwise she sticks to a .22 rifle. For home defense, I tell her to grab the shotgun and just stay in the locked room.

Which is why you get a smaller gun like this and shoot .38 special or .38 special +P in it. It has decent stopping power, no safeties to fumble with and it is easy to shoot and master. It also has the plus that it can be used as a carry gun if needed.

 

[LTC8K6]

Why would you need to cock a semi-auto handgun?

If it's a single action semi-auto, then it needs to be cocked first, either by pulling back the slide to load a round in the chamber, or by pulling the hammer back if a round is already in the chamber.

 

[FDF12389]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Kelvrick

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: FDF12389

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: FDF12389
I would disagree with a .357 in most cases. This is one.

Why?

.357 is over powering, most women do not like shooting long heavy revolvers, they tend to be more comfortable with shorter handguns. A short .357 has too much recoil.

That's why you load it with .38 Special or .38 Special +P. Just because you have a .357 Magnum handgun doesn't mean you have to fire full-load .357 Magnum cartridges. A short .357 Magnum will easily handle any .38 Special loading you can put through it, and the weight will help steady the weapon as well as reduce the recoil when compared with a gun chambered only for .38 Special.

ZV

Yes, more weight/mass will reduce recoil, but it can be a bad thing. With less upper body strength, it will be harder to control, and they might not feel as comfortable with something so heavy.

For instance, a USP elite 9mm shoots like a kitty, but my gf will still have horrible groups with it. Same with an Sig X5 competition. She actually likes the beretta PX4 9mm the most. In 9mm pistol form anyway, otherwise she sticks to a .22 rifle. For home defense, I tell her to grab the shotgun and just stay in the locked room.

Which is why you get a smaller gun like this and shoot .38 special or .38 special +P in it. It has decent stopping power, no safeties to fumble with and it is easy to shoot and master. It also has the plus that it can be used as a carry gun if needed.

I was only disagreeing with the bolded part below. Not only should you practice with the same rounds you depend on using for defense, but also I think magnum rounds aren't the best possible choice for defense.

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Have you ever fired a 12 gauge shotgun? They generate a lot of recoil and shooting one, especially with slugs and/or magnum rounds can really turn you off to shooting. For a woman I'd recommend a 20 gauge unless she's pretty sturdy and can get used to the recoil.

If she's never fired a gun before I wouldn't recommend a shotgun. I'd get a 7 shot S&W .357 Magnum revolver. You can practice with .38 Special rounds which is cheaper and load it with magnum rounds for self defence. Revolvers make great first guns because they are simple to use, have no safety for you to fumble with and they have a long heavy double action trigger pull to prevent accidental discharge.

 

[knightc2]

Originally posted by: Summit
glocks don't have a safety. they are gun noobs. get a smaller caliber handgun

Glocks do have a safety. Three of them actually. They are just trigger safeties. It is virtually impossible to discharge a Glock without pulling the trigger. The issue is they do not have the traditional "thumb" safety that most other handguns have. For some people this is a deal killer and to others no big deal. I know of many people that will not own a Glock because of this. For those concerned with this there are after market safety options or you could always just purchase a different handgun. Like I said earlier I don't think Glocks are for beginners (gun noobs).

 

[BladeVenom]

Originally posted by: Blunc

You're better off investing in a big dog.

Getting a dog is a nice addition, but dogs aren't infallible.

One of my coworkers relied on a nice big guard dog. Someone poisoned it and stole everything of value in his garage.

A second coworker got a really nice expensive rottweiler for a guard dog. It was the best looking rottweiler I've ever seen. Someone stole it.

One of my friends who I play LAN games with has a nice big sheep dog. It's too nice. Anyone can come in and out of his house and the dog doesn't even care.

 

[Blunc]

a beagle makes a great alarm and would give you time to arm yourself

 

[knightc2]

You don't have to feed, walk or clean up after a 12 gauge! 😉

 

[ranmaniac]

Oozy Nine Millimeetah

 

[adairusmc]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune

Originally posted by: adairusmc

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
I still have to agree with a short barrel 20 gauge shotgun with bird shot. Not much kick. Wide spread so that not much aim is required. It doesn't have that much kick since its a heavy gun. I let my girl practice how to use one and she's tall and light. She never even held a gun before (her family is heavily anti-gun) but it worked out well for her. Shotgun is far better for home defense IMO.

Bird shot :laugh:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot22.htm



#4 buck is what you want to use.

Bird shot has minimum wall penetration while still providing a wide spread of lethality. It's better for someone who doesn't actively shoot a gun. I use a 12 gauge with 00 buck because I grew up with a side-by-side 12 gauge double barrel shotgun. So I know how to use one and handle the kick of the 3-1/2" shells. My gf is about 130lbs. and the kick of firing both barrels made me have to catch her 😛 Scared her shitless :laugh: I would still use birdshot in the home defense though to minimize possible harm to family members or neighbors. Firing 00 buck would blow through walls and people and has the distinct possibility of harming neighbors if fired in that direction.. Really a bad idea to use in home defense.

Well, you can keep using your bird shot, and I am going to keep using my SBR AR loaded with Hornady TAP.:beer:

 

[BuckNaked]

Originally posted by: Kelvrick

Originally posted by: BuckNaked
I second a 9MM handgun... as for which one, I would shoot a few and go with what you like... my own personal preference would be the Glock 19. I feel the 9MM round is the minimum round one should consider for self defense, you get a wide range of reliable handguns to choose from, and a wide choice of effective rounds to choose from. Round selection is critical in choosing a self defense round.

I would strongly suggest you take a class, and not just the 8 hour basic safety class or what ever is offered. A class taught by a shooter with good credentials will open your eyes as to what it takes to use a weapon in a stressful situatuion.

A shotgun is an effective self defense weapon in capable hands, but using one in a house, especially with corners or tight spaces at close quarters can be challenging due to the overall length. The length also works against a user if an assailant is able to get there hands on the weapon, the leverage can be worked against the person holding the weapon, especially a woman who may already be at a disadvantage in regards to upper body strength.

I consider that bad advice. I doubt she is going to get enough training to properly sweep the house, especially without an overwatch. She should be holed up in her room and call the police. Round placement is more important then caliber, .22lr's kill tons of people. Heck, at 300 yards will still go through 3 layers of clothing and a turkey (thanks BrunoPuntzJones for initially showing me the test).

A guy recently killed a cop during a no-knock raid by shooting through a door with a bursa thunder (.380).

That, and considering proper form with a handgun in either bladed or isosceles, a short barreled shotgun would be barely longer then that.

I am not really talking about sweeping a house... everyone likes to think about the best case scenarios where they have advance notice that someone is breaking into the house, giving the victim time to produce a weapon and take cover in there room. What happens when you awake from a deep sleep only to find someone already in the room, and you have only a split second to react? Bringing a shotgun to bear and maintaining control of the weapon at short distance is a crapshoot for even the best trained individuals... let alone someone who doesn't have a lot of training, or more importantly, the developed mindset for such encounters, and may be at a significant disadvantage.

I am not arguing that a shotgun isn't an effective weapon, I wouldn't own one if it wasn't, but one has to look at the overall big picture, and try to look at all the possibilities, not just one particular situation.

A handgun is a relatively poor performer when compared to a rifle or shotgun, but the advantages it brings as far as such things as being readily available when needed, the ability to maintain control of the weapon at short distances in confined areas, and the ability to train with it on a regular basis, does weigh in its favor, and those are just a few things that should be taken into consideration when making a choice. The willingness to actually use the weapon, as well as maintaining some level of proficiency with the weapon, are other considerations.

As for deciding on caliber, for every story where someone is killed by a lesser caliber, there are probably 10 stories where someone has taken solid hits from a major caliber handgun that did not immediately stop the threat. Ballistic performance from shot to shot is seemingly as much black art as science... the idea is to stack the odds in your favor as much as possible as far as weapon choice, bullet selection, shot placement and mindset, from least important to most...

Not to get too off topic, but some of you who are providing advice, what kind of background or training are you basing your advice on? How many of you have taken any kind of class over and above a basic safety or ccw class?

 

[ni0v]

a BFR in .45-70.

 

[sygyzy]

I never understood hearing about a crime or tragedy and getting scared by it. There was a huge shooting a postal sorting facility down the street. At no point did I believe the gunman would get into his car and drive to my apartment complex, kick down my door and shoot me.

 

[Vic]

Remington 870 + Sig P226/9 9mm

 

[Kelvrick]

Originally posted by: BuckNaked

Originally posted by: Kelvrick

Originally posted by: BuckNaked
I second a 9MM handgun... as for which one, I would shoot a few and go with what you like... my own personal preference would be the Glock 19. I feel the 9MM round is the minimum round one should consider for self defense, you get a wide range of reliable handguns to choose from, and a wide choice of effective rounds to choose from. Round selection is critical in choosing a self defense round.

I would strongly suggest you take a class, and not just the 8 hour basic safety class or what ever is offered. A class taught by a shooter with good credentials will open your eyes as to what it takes to use a weapon in a stressful situatuion.

A shotgun is an effective self defense weapon in capable hands, but using one in a house, especially with corners or tight spaces at close quarters can be challenging due to the overall length. The length also works against a user if an assailant is able to get there hands on the weapon, the leverage can be worked against the person holding the weapon, especially a woman who may already be at a disadvantage in regards to upper body strength.

I consider that bad advice. I doubt she is going to get enough training to properly sweep the house, especially without an overwatch. She should be holed up in her room and call the police. Round placement is more important then caliber, .22lr's kill tons of people. Heck, at 300 yards will still go through 3 layers of clothing and a turkey (thanks BrunoPuntzJones for initially showing me the test).

A guy recently killed a cop during a no-knock raid by shooting through a door with a bursa thunder (.380).

That, and considering proper form with a handgun in either bladed or isosceles, a short barreled shotgun would be barely longer then that.

I am not really talking about sweeping a house... everyone likes to think about the best case scenarios where they have advance notice that someone is breaking into the house, giving the victim time to produce a weapon and take cover in there room. What happens when you awake from a deep sleep only to find someone already in the room, and you have only a split second to react? Bringing a shotgun to bear and maintaining control of the weapon at short distance is a crapshoot for even the best trained individuals... let alone someone who doesn't have a lot of training, or more importantly, the developed mindset for such encounters, and may be at a significant disadvantage.

I am not arguing that a shotgun isn't an effective weapon, I wouldn't own one if it wasn't, but one has to look at the overall big picture, and try to look at all the possibilities, not just one particular situation.

A handgun is a relatively poor performer when compared to a rifle or shotgun, but the advantages it brings as far as such things as being readily available when needed, the ability to maintain control of the weapon at short distances in confined areas, and the ability to train with it on a regular basis, does weigh in its favor, and those are just a few things that should be taken into consideration when making a choice. The willingness to actually use the weapon, as well as maintaining some level of proficiency with the weapon, are other considerations.

As for deciding on caliber, for every story where someone is killed by a lesser caliber, there are probably 10 stories where someone has taken solid hits from a major caliber handgun that did not immediately stop the threat. Ballistic performance from shot to shot is seemingly as much black art as science... the idea is to stack the odds in your favor as much as possible as far as weapon choice, bullet selection, shot placement and mindset, from least important to most...

Not to get too off topic, but some of you who are providing advice, what kind of background or training are you basing your advice on? How many of you have taken any kind of class over and above a basic safety or ccw class?

If they're in the room when you wake it, its probably already too late. In a ccw situation, with you fully aware of a threat, the 21 feet rule is pretty obvious as to what would happen in a defense situation with them within 10 feet and you still groggy.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: daishi5
Home, you cannot carry at all in IL.

Then a 20 gauge shotgun loaded with buckshot. It has less recoil than a 12 gauge, and it's lighter.

It should also have the shortest barrel permitted by law.

It's a hard weapon to beat.

Damn skippy!
Nothing says "Go away, PLEASE " quite like racking a round into the chamber with a pump.
Take the plug out since you won't be hunting waterfowl and ta-da, you've got room for at least 5 rounds.

shot guns rule. Plus you won't send a stray round down the block, taking out someone in their house 5 doors down.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: dakels
I agree with the more sensible posts here about not running out and getting whatever in a knee jerk fear reaction. I'd also stress training with any gun. Every range I have been to had some resources for training, either classes or recommendations for people, call the staff. I also agree to shotguns being more practical for home defense.

http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/find.asp

On a side note, I think the .22 argument is because of size, ease of use, and minimal collateral damage, not ballistic feasibility. Police don't use .22's on the job for obvious reasons. They are underpowered and inadequate for many scenarios. Police also have the benefit of training and have to meet requirements for strength and proficiency when using a firearm. Civilians do not. This can be a significant factor. I know of people who did not make it through NJ state police academy due to not being able to cock the gun fast enough (usually small women). My father was a cop and he kept a a small .22 pistol for self defense when his 9mm (beretta / SS P228) was too big and clumsy to carry on recreational outtings. It was meant for short term, short range defense and most importantly, a deterrent WHILE WAITING FOR ON-DUTY POLICE TO ARRIVE.

I think your 911 call should be your first line of defense.

When seconds count, police are just minutes away.

By then, they are too late.
Anyone who depends on The Police for home protection is a fool.
The best deterrent is ANY defense that makes your home just a little bit "harder" than the next.
Victims don't make preparations of any kind.

 

[BladeVenom]

Originally posted by: sygyzy
I never understood hearing about a crime or tragedy and getting scared by it. There was a huge shooting a postal sorting facility down the street. At no point did I believe the gunman would get into his car and drive to my apartment complex, kick down my door and shoot me.

The people at the postal facility thought the same thing. They were wrong.

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Squisher
.38 revolver

Later on you can always load it with P+ rounds for more stopping power.

Only if it's rated for +P rounds. Many (most?) older .38 Specials are not capable of safely firing +P rounds. A .357 Magnum is a better choice as a revolver because it can also fire .38 Special and .38 Special +P. Putting +P rounds into an old .38 Special is just begging for an explosive malfunction.

ZV

Yeah, I thought of that after I posted and I thought someone would help me out by pointing that out. Although, I doubt the OP was going to go out and buy an old firearm, but I disagree with a lot of posters advocating the .357 and loading it with .38 You are increasing the weight of the gun substantially and the OP's wife might not feel comfortable with that.

Now, as for shotguns, I kinda like this one. Just not for the OP's wife. 🙂

 

[0roo0roo]

http://www.remtek.com/steyr/tmp/tmp.htm

 

[daishi5]

Originally posted by: FDF12389

Originally posted by: ahurtt
Here's the thing about a shotgun. . .I assume people are talking about shotguns making it easier to hit the target because they are thinking that the shotgun would be loaded with scatter shot of some sort as opposed to a slug. Yes, that might make you less likely to miss but it also makes you more likely to hit more than what you intended to as well. . .a pet. . .a spouse. . .a child. . .
You never know what the conditions or scenario might be in a home invasion where you have to use your gun to defend yourself or your family. Personally I'd opt for a basic 9mm handgun and lots of practice time at the range. You don't want to use the policy of spray n' pray. . .life isn't a video game.

I assume since he didn't say "The kids and my GF are at my moms house", then its just the two of them, and i also assume they sleep in the same room. If its at night have her stay in the room, don't fire in that direction and sure as hell don't let the attacker fire in that direction. If its during the day it will be just her, she wont have to worry about hitting him.

All the scenarios and training will be brought up in the class they take TOGETHER, BEFORE they purchase a firearm.

Right daishi5?

You are correct on most of this, just the two of us, and mostly for when I am not home. She has had firearm training, but only for hunting. I had already started looking for training for myself.

I am sorry for the late reply, but I was flying back home.

Edit: Her family actually has several 20 guage shotguns, and they want to give her one. So once she has her FOID card, she can spend some more time with her dad down at the range getting used to it. And if someone breaks into the house, I can be a man and hide behind my girlfriend and her gun 😀 But to be serious, I do have some time planned with my uncle, who is a police detective in a nearby city, before we get any guns.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus


I shoot sporting clays with a 20 gauge Beretta Over/Under (12 gauge is not fun for me...too much shoulder bruising recoil) and you definitely have to aim them if you want to hit what you're shooting at.

lol, you must be a skinny guy. A 12 guage doesn't have a bad kick. It pushes a lot, but it's not violent like a 30.06.

 

[adairusmc]

I am thinking of going through the NFA process again to get me one of these -

http://serbu.com/top/superShorty.php

That would fit perfect in the center console of my pickup. 😀

 

[*kjm]

My wife has a 12 gauge with 4 shot. Recoil don't matter it would only take one shot and she has/ can use it. The pellits will not exit the home and they would... The question is could she shoot? If not you would be better off with a strong room to run to.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Squisher

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Squisher
.38 revolver

Later on you can always load it with P+ rounds for more stopping power.

Only if it's rated for +P rounds. Many (most?) older .38 Specials are not capable of safely firing +P rounds. A .357 Magnum is a better choice as a revolver because it can also fire .38 Special and .38 Special +P. Putting +P rounds into an old .38 Special is just begging for an explosive malfunction.

ZV

Yeah, I thought of that after I posted and I thought someone would help me out by pointing that out. Although, I doubt the OP was going to go out and buy an old firearm, but I disagree with a lot of posters advocating the .357 and loading it with .38 You are increasing the weight of the gun substantially and the OP's wife might not feel comfortable with that.

Now, as for shotguns, I kinda like this one. Just not for the OP's wife. 🙂

I dunno, my old Model 19 is pretty light for a .357 revolver. I really think that the S&W Model 19 or the Ruger Security Six with a 4" barrel would be great options. I've got a heavier Model 19 (6" barrel) and have never had a complaint from the women who have shot it. When both guns are fully loaded it doesn't weigh much more than my polymer-framed M&P .40 (M&P is about 36 ounces loaded, the M19 is about 41 ounces).

I'll admit that I'm a fan of the .357 Magnum cartridge but I really do like the practicality and versatility of the lightweight .357 Magnum revolvers. They handle like a .38 Special, but are built stronger and if all you ever shoot is .38 Special +P through them you'll never wear them out.

ZV

 

[Nitemare]

Sawed off shotgun, hand on the pump....

Wouldn't have to be too accurate with buck shot and you have the intimidation factor