Home defense gun for a woman.

[thecoolnessrune]

I still have to agree with a short barrel 20 gauge shotgun with bird shot. Not much kick. Wide spread so that not much aim is required. It doesn't have that much kick since its a heavy gun. I let my girl practice how to use one and she's tall and light. She never even held a gun before (her family is heavily anti-gun) but it worked out well for her. Shotgun is far better for home defense IMO.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
I still have to agree with a short barrel 20 gauge shotgun with bird shot. Not much kick. Wide spread so that not much aim is required. It doesn't have that much kick since its a heavy gun. I let my girl practice how to use one and she's tall and light. She never even held a gun before (her family is heavily anti-gun) but it worked out well for her. Shotgun is far better for home defense IMO.

A shotgun doesn't spread out that much and aiming is still required.

I shoot sporting clays with a 20 gauge Beretta Over/Under (12 gauge is not fun for me...too much shoulder bruising recoil) and you definitely have to aim them if you want to hit what you're shooting at.

 

[Kelvrick]

I'm going to chime in again.

It might be hard for you, I'm not sure about laws where you are, but it sounds just as bad as me over here in California. AR15 (or less cary mini14). a .223/556 round sounds like its too much, but it is actually much more efficient then all handgun rounds. She might get turned off from it, but the rounds actually penetrate so much less then handgun rounds and yet creates much smaller wound channels thanks to bullet design. Since it travels so much faster, it will fragment on impact and yet if it hits someone, create a larger wound channel.

That aside, on the shotgun, you can get bead sites, or ghost rings. A 20gauge side by side or overunder might be best, no racking needed. They'll likely cost more though.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: magomago
shotgun....and you don't want kick? uhhhhhhhhh

i hear if you saw them off, it makes them more accurate!

While shotguns do have plenty of kick, you gotta get your priorities straight when it comes to home defense. If you are going to get a gun then get something which does not require any skill to hold or aim. Being that you might be woken up in the middle of the night and need to react quickly, the last thing you want to have to worry about is shitty aim while you are all groggy. A shotgun is perfect for this. OP, tell your girl that dealing with some kick is well worth increasing the chances of saving your life.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Kelvrick
I'm going to chime in again.

It might be hard for you, I'm not sure about laws where you are, but it sounds just as bad as me over here in California. AR15 (or less cary mini14). a .223/556 round sounds like its too much, but it is actually much more efficient then all handgun rounds. She might get turned off from it, but the rounds actually penetrate so much less then handgun rounds and yet creates much smaller wound channels thanks to bullet design. Since it travels so much faster, it will fragment on impact and yet if it hits someone, create a larger wound channel.

That aside, on the shotgun, you can get bead sites, or ghost rings. A 20gauge side by side or overunder might be best, no racking needed. They'll likely cost more though.

AR15 is a really bad idea for home defense IMO. You think drywall would stop a .223 FMJ bullet? :laugh:MAO

Dude, twelve pine boards will not stop a .223 round.

 

[adairusmc]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
I still have to agree with a short barrel 20 gauge shotgun with bird shot. Not much kick. Wide spread so that not much aim is required. It doesn't have that much kick since its a heavy gun. I let my girl practice how to use one and she's tall and light. She never even held a gun before (her family is heavily anti-gun) but it worked out well for her. Shotgun is far better for home defense IMO.

Bird shot :laugh:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot22.htm



#4 buck is what you want to use.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: magomago
shotgun....and you don't want kick? uhhhhhhhhh

i hear if you saw them off, it makes them more accurate!

While shotguns do have plenty of kick, you gotta get your priorities straight when it comes to home defense. If you are going to get a gun then get something which does not require any skill to hold or aim. Being that you might be woken up in the middle of the night and need to react quickly, the last thing you want to have to worry about is shitty aim while you are all groggy. A shotgun is perfect for this. OP, tell your girl that dealing with some kick is well worth increasing the chances of saving your life.

Worst advice ever!!! Anyone who owns guns should take the time to aquire the skill and knowledge to use them safely and effectively.

Oh, and shoguns don't fit as well under your pillow or in a nightstand.

 

[ryan256]

Glock 19 chambered for 9mm.
Great gun that can take all kinds of abuse and still work. 9mm has decent stopping power and ammo is very common and relatively cheap. Women can handle its recoil alot better than that of a .45 or .44

 

[RKS]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: magomago
shotgun....and you don't want kick? uhhhhhhhhh

i hear if you saw them off, it makes them more accurate!

While shotguns do have plenty of kick, you gotta get your priorities straight when it comes to home defense. If you are going to get a gun then get something which does not require any skill to hold or aim. Being that you might be woken up in the middle of the night and need to react quickly, the last thing you want to have to worry about is shitty aim while you are all groggy. A shotgun is perfect for this. OP, tell your girl that dealing with some kick is well worth increasing the chances of saving your life.

Worst advice ever!!! Anyone who owns guns should take the time to aquire the skill and knowledge to use them safely and effectively.

Oh, and shoguns don't fit as well under your pillow or in a nightstand.

Close enough

 

[JulesMaximus]

For those of you who think you don't need to aim a shotgun or that it won't penetrate typical walls you'd find in your average home or apartment: Text

Lessons learned:
1. Notice that the #4 and #1 Buck penetrated 6 boards. In previous tests, 9mm, .45 ACP, and M-193 out of an AR all penetrated all 12 boards.

So, it seems that these loads do not "over-penetrate" as much as some have led us to believe.

The 00 Buck penetrated 8 boards, but was stopped by the 9th. Still not as much penetration as the pistol or rifle loads.

The slug penetrated all 12 boards.

2. Once again, please notice the size of the entrance spreads....2 1/2" to 3 1/2". Therefore, anyone that says, "With a shotgun, you don't even have to aim. Just point it in the general area of the bad guy, and you can't miss", does not know what they are talking about.

You can very easily miss with a shotgun. You must aim to hit your target.

3. The slugs were "bad" penetrators. By that, I mean that they will penetrate several interior walls. If you have loved ones in your home, consider this as you select your home defense weapon.

4. I "racked" the shotgun several times during the tests, and no bystanders lost control of their bowels.
Conclusion: Racking a shotgun will not make the bad guy faint.

Frankly, I was surprised that the shotgun did not penetrate more than it did. I had been led to believe that they penetrated more than a .223 rifle or a 9mm or .45 ACP. Such was not the case.

Amazing what you can learn by doing a little testing.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: magomago
shotgun....and you don't want kick? uhhhhhhhhh

i hear if you saw them off, it makes them more accurate!

While shotguns do have plenty of kick, you gotta get your priorities straight when it comes to home defense. If you are going to get a gun then get something which does not require any skill to hold or aim. Being that you might be woken up in the middle of the night and need to react quickly, the last thing you want to have to worry about is shitty aim while you are all groggy. A shotgun is perfect for this. OP, tell your girl that dealing with some kick is well worth increasing the chances of saving your life.

Worst advice ever!!! Anyone who owns guns should take the time to aquire the skill and knowledge to use them safely and effectively.

Oh, and shoguns don't fit as well under your pillow or in a nightstand.

You are assuming I was suggesting that one should not train themselves properly with it which is completely false. Perhaps it would have been more politically correct to say "less skill" instead of "any skill" but that is just a play on words. However, even a skilled marksman can be greatly hindered by grogginess after being woken up suddenly. This is even more true if said marksman was out most of the night drinking.

No matter how you slice it, when it comes to guns and home defense, you want to choose the weapon which will protect you the most and require the least effort to use. You may not get a second chance if you miss with a pistol of some kind.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: magomago
shotgun....and you don't want kick? uhhhhhhhhh

i hear if you saw them off, it makes them more accurate!

While shotguns do have plenty of kick, you gotta get your priorities straight when it comes to home defense. If you are going to get a gun then get something which does not require any skill to hold or aim. Being that you might be woken up in the middle of the night and need to react quickly, the last thing you want to have to worry about is shitty aim while you are all groggy. A shotgun is perfect for this. OP, tell your girl that dealing with some kick is well worth increasing the chances of saving your life.

Worst advice ever!!! Anyone who owns guns should take the time to aquire the skill and knowledge to use them safely and effectively.

Oh, and shoguns don't fit as well under your pillow or in a nightstand.

You are assuming I was suggesting that one should not train themselves properly with it which is completely false. Perhaps it would have been more politically correct to say "less skill" instead of "any skill" but that is just a play on words. However, even a skilled marksman can be greatly hindered by grogginess after being woken up suddenly. This is even more true if said marksman was out most of the night drinking.

No matter how you slice it, when it comes to guns and home defense, you want to choose the weapon which will protect you the most and require the least effort to use. You may not get a second chance if you miss with a pistol of some kind.

I don't believe it takes less skill to operate a shotgun than a handgun. They both require knowledge, skill and practice to use safely and effectively. Sure, handgun probably requires more practice to be effective, especially once distance increases but to say or imply that you don't need to aim a shotgun is rubbish.

And recoil is brutal with a 12 gauge (arguably the most popular shotgun chambering). If your GF is put off by shooting it she's not very likely to take the time to learn to handle it properly and it probably won't be of much use to her if she doesn't. My .02

 

[sdifox]

The judge

http://steelturman.typepad.com...2/here_come_da_th.html

 

[Blunc]

I'd say this is kind of pointless unless you're planning on having guns stashed all over the house so you can grab one from where ever you're at if you get invaded by bad guys.

You're better off investing in a big dog.

 

[Kelvrick]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Kelvrick
I'm going to chime in again.

It might be hard for you, I'm not sure about laws where you are, but it sounds just as bad as me over here in California. AR15 (or less cary mini14). a .223/556 round sounds like its too much, but it is actually much more efficient then all handgun rounds. She might get turned off from it, but the rounds actually penetrate so much less then handgun rounds and yet creates much smaller wound channels thanks to bullet design. Since it travels so much faster, it will fragment on impact and yet if it hits someone, create a larger wound channel.

That aside, on the shotgun, you can get bead sites, or ghost rings. A 20gauge side by side or overunder might be best, no racking needed. They'll likely cost more though.

AR15 is a really bad idea for home defense IMO. You think drywall would stop a .223 FMJ bullet? :laugh:MAO

Dude, twelve pine boards will not stop a .223 round.

Referring to the box-o-truth test? 😛 Sounds like I should have done more research before opening my mouth. Here is a good read about the .223.

http://www.njpdresources.org/pdfs/wallboard_test.pdf

I guess it all comes down to which ammo you're using. I'll move back to my shotgun recommendation. Personally, I keep mine loaded with 12 ga 2 3/4 #4 buckshot.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

I don't believe it takes less skill to operate a shotgun than a handgun. They both require knowledge, skill and practice to use safely and effectively. Sure, handgun probably requires more practice to be effective, especially once distance increases but to say or imply that you don't need to aim a shotgun is rubbish.

And recoil is brutal with a 12 gauge (arguably the most popular shotgun chambering). If your GF is put off by shooting it she's not very likely to take the time to learn to handle it properly and it probably won't be of much use to her if she doesn't. My .02

It does take some skill and training. As I said earlier, my choice in words as I quickly typed my first post were not as accurate as they should have been. Regardless, the meat of the matter is still there.

In regards to recoil, I have used shotguns which are not to bad in comparison to handguns. However, handguns have recoil too and most people (especially women) that I have met where recoil is a huge concern to them really do not work well with any kind of pistol either. In the end, if you are going to rely on a gun for home defense, you got to get over the whole recoil crap. Practice with the weapon. Get used to it. Since you have to do that anyways, you might as well get the gun which is easier to use.

Easier != No skill required

 

[FDF12389]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: FDF12389

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: daishi5
I am all kinda freaked out by this, not being able to do anything. But now that you mention it, shotgun seems like a good idea, what should I look for in something like that?

Have you ever fired a 12 gauge shotgun? They generate a lot of recoil and shooting one, especially with slugs and/or magnum rounds can really turn you off to shooting. For a woman I'd recommend a 20 gauge unless she's pretty sturdy and can get used to the recoil.

If she's never fired a gun before I wouldn't recommend a shotgun. I'd get a 7 shot S&W .357 Magnum revolver. You can practice with .38 Special rounds which is cheaper and load it with magnum rounds for self defence. Revolvers make great first guns because they are simple to use, have no safety for you to fumble with and they have a long heavy double action trigger pull to prevent accidental discharge.

I would disagree with a .357 in most cases. This is one.

Why?

.357 is over powering, most women do not like shooting long heavy revolvers, they tend to be more comfortable with shorter handguns. A short .357 has too much recoil.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Originally posted by: adairusmc

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
I still have to agree with a short barrel 20 gauge shotgun with bird shot. Not much kick. Wide spread so that not much aim is required. It doesn't have that much kick since its a heavy gun. I let my girl practice how to use one and she's tall and light. She never even held a gun before (her family is heavily anti-gun) but it worked out well for her. Shotgun is far better for home defense IMO.

Bird shot :laugh:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot22.htm



#4 buck is what you want to use.

Bird shot has minimum wall penetration while still providing a wide spread of lethality. It's better for someone who doesn't actively shoot a gun. I use a 12 gauge with 00 buck because I grew up with a side-by-side 12 gauge double barrel shotgun. So I know how to use one and handle the kick of the 3-1/2" shells. My gf is about 130lbs. and the kick of firing both barrels made me have to catch her 😛 Scared her shitless :laugh: I would still use birdshot in the home defense though to minimize possible harm to family members or neighbors. Firing 00 buck would blow through walls and people and has the distinct possibility of harming neighbors if fired in that direction.. Really a bad idea to use in home defense.

 

[Kelvrick]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune

Originally posted by: adairusmc

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
I still have to agree with a short barrel 20 gauge shotgun with bird shot. Not much kick. Wide spread so that not much aim is required. It doesn't have that much kick since its a heavy gun. I let my girl practice how to use one and she's tall and light. She never even held a gun before (her family is heavily anti-gun) but it worked out well for her. Shotgun is far better for home defense IMO.

Bird shot :laugh:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot22.htm



#4 buck is what you want to use.

Bird shot has minimum wall penetration while still providing a wide spread of lethality. It's better for someone who doesn't actively shoot a gun. I use a 12 gauge with 00 buck because I grew up with a side-by-side 12 gauge double barrel shotgun. So I know how to use one and handle the kick of the 3-1/2" shells. My gf is about 130lbs. and the kick of firing both barrels made me have to catch her 😛 Scared her shitless :laugh: I would still use birdshot in the home defense though to minimize possible harm to family members or neighbors. Firing 00 buck would blow through walls and people and has the distinct possibility of harming neighbors if fired in that direction.. Really a bad idea to use in home defense.

Here are some more wound profiles. From a 12ga though.

Shotgunworld testing

 

[summit]

glocks don't have a safety. they are gun noobs. get a smaller caliber handgun

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: FDF12389

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: FDF12389
I would disagree with a .357 in most cases. This is one.

Why?

.357 is over powering, most women do not like shooting long heavy revolvers, they tend to be more comfortable with shorter handguns. A short .357 has too much recoil.

That's why you load it with .38 Special or .38 Special +P. Just because you have a .357 Magnum handgun doesn't mean you have to fire full-load .357 Magnum cartridges. A short .357 Magnum will easily handle any .38 Special loading you can put through it, and the weight will help steady the weapon as well as reduce the recoil when compared with a gun chambered only for .38 Special.

ZV

 

[Kelvrick]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: FDF12389

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: FDF12389
I would disagree with a .357 in most cases. This is one.

Why?

.357 is over powering, most women do not like shooting long heavy revolvers, they tend to be more comfortable with shorter handguns. A short .357 has too much recoil.

That's why you load it with .38 Special or .38 Special +P. Just because you have a .357 Magnum handgun doesn't mean you have to fire full-load .357 Magnum cartridges. A short .357 Magnum will easily handle any .38 Special loading you can put through it, and the weight will help steady the weapon as well as reduce the recoil when compared with a gun chambered only for .38 Special.

ZV

Yes, more weight/mass will reduce recoil, but it can be a bad thing. With less upper body strength, it will be harder to control, and they might not feel as comfortable with something so heavy.

For instance, a USP elite 9mm shoots like a kitty, but my gf will still have horrible groups with it. Same with an Sig X5 competition. She actually likes the beretta PX4 9mm the most. In 9mm pistol form anyway, otherwise she sticks to a .22 rifle. For home defense, I tell her to grab the shotgun and just stay in the locked room.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

I don't believe it takes less skill to operate a shotgun than a handgun. They both require knowledge, skill and practice to use safely and effectively. Sure, handgun probably requires more practice to be effective, especially once distance increases but to say or imply that you don't need to aim a shotgun is rubbish.

And recoil is brutal with a 12 gauge (arguably the most popular shotgun chambering). If your GF is put off by shooting it she's not very likely to take the time to learn to handle it properly and it probably won't be of much use to her if she doesn't. My .02

It does take some skill and training. As I said earlier, my choice in words as I quickly typed my first post were not as accurate as they should have been. Regardless, the meat of the matter is still there.

In regards to recoil, I have used shotguns which are not to bad in comparison to handguns. However, handguns have recoil too and most people (especially women) that I have met where recoil is a huge concern to them really do not work well with any kind of pistol either. In the end, if you are going to rely on a gun for home defense, you got to get over the whole recoil crap. Practice with the weapon. Get used to it. Since you have to do that anyways, you might as well get the gun which is easier to use.

Easier != No skill required

I don't have a problem with recoil. I own a few shotguns and a few handguns. The 12 gauge shotguns are definitely more punishing to shoot even than my .44 magnum revolver.

I am used to and very comfortable with all my guns.

 

[uberman]

A S&W 340 PD, light and designed for pocket carry. Use only 38 special or feel the pain in the hand upon firing, the lightest 357 in the world.

 

[LTC8K6]

Find a good gun store that has a range where they let you test fire pistols before you buy them.

You can then find a gun you like and can handle, so you won't miss.

You have to consider what's likely to be behind what you're shooting at.

How close are your loved ones?

How close are the neighbors?

Can you afford to have your bullet go through several walls?

A .380 is probably the smallest handgun caliber you want to consider.