Don't forget to include in that $1000 the OS. XP even Home costs a bit. I don't like prebuilt systems but they do come with the OS in the price.
You can easily build a better box than Dell. A legal OS will probably not make yours any cheaper
They are obviously not computer savy enough to appreciate you.
Seriously consider how much of a profit buffer you have to absorb warranties and just silly questions. These problems can take up an enormous amount of your time. What' that worth?
When you get to that stage you won't have to ask questions like in your post. You will just give your customer a 1 minute answer briefly describing the benefits of your machine vs. a Dell, and wishing them the best of luck with their new Dell, and if you feel really generous you may offer to repair their new Dell when the Tech Support doesn't work. Perhaps maybe on their subsequent purchase, you may then have a new loyal customer for a realistic profit.
I do sales at a performance computer shop and occasionally someone will come in who is interested in buying a new computer and want to know if we can build them something better than Dell and my god, I want to smack these people. Dell has got it made, they have an entire population thinking their computers kick ass at an unbeatable price. I can build them something tons better for the same price with a local 3 year warranty.
However, there is a lot of things that can go wrong in a build, and you don't want to deal with that. I fried my dad's pimp video editing system during the build and it took 6 months before I RMA'd everything (ethical? no) and got it up and running. The system rocks, but my god, everytime I look at it I want to throw it out the window because of how much time it cost me.
Is something going to go wrong if you build it? Most likely no. But in the small chance that something could, you don't want to be responsible, and if you accept the responsibility, you better have jacked up the quote a few hundred $$$ to replace anything that might need replacing. For the next three years, anything that goes wrong with that system is your fault, that includes spyware and viruses. I know I know... crappy deal, but that's the way it is.
Dell sucks, I've had three of them. Custom builds are the way to go... however, you don't want to put yourself in that posistion. I've turned down friends who want custom builds because I don't want to deal with it.
Still don't want him to go with a Dell? Go for the middle-ground, by the components and take it to a computer shop and let them build it. Our store can build for about $50, so if the cost of the parts comes to $1200, charge $1500, minus $50 for the build, then a $150 store credit to that store (should cover a few hours of labor if the need arises at some point in the future, kinda like a psuedo warranty) and you pocket $100.
Good luck.
However, there is a lot of things that can go wrong in a build, and you don't want to deal with that. I fried my dad's pimp video editing system during the build and it took 6 months before I RMA'd everything (ethical? no) and got it up and running. The system rocks, but my god, everytime I look at it I want to throw it out the window because of how much time it cost me.
Is something going to go wrong if you build it? Most likely no. But in the small chance that something could, you don't want to be responsible, and if you accept the responsibility, you better have jacked up the quote a few hundred $$$ to replace anything that might need replacing. For the next three years, anything that goes wrong with that system is your fault, that includes spyware and viruses. I know I know... crappy deal, but that's the way it is.
Dell sucks, I've had three of them. Custom builds are the way to go... however, you don't want to put yourself in that posistion. I've turned down friends who want custom builds because I don't want to deal with it.
Still don't want him to go with a Dell? Go for the middle-ground, by the components and take it to a computer shop and let them build it. Our store can build for about $50, so if the cost of the parts comes to $1200, charge $1500, minus $50 for the build, then a $150 store credit to that store (should cover a few hours of labor if the need arises at some point in the future, kinda like a psuedo warranty) and you pocket $100.
Good luck.
VirtualLarry
No Lifer
- Aug 25, 2001
- 56,587
- 10,225
- 126
Yeah. Like a friend that is (now) semi-computer-literate (was finally able to upgrade their own RAM, etc., and install drivers themself), who gets some nasty spyware, and begs you to re-format for them, and you tell them strongly, to change their "computing habits", use a different browser, install some proxy ad-filtering/pop-blocking software, etc., and make sure to use a firewall.
And then a few weeks later, same friend calls up again, same sort of story. Apparently, said friend was not able to manage firewall properly, made some blocking rules they shouldn't have, weren't able to play their online game, and listened to the game's tech-support people who told said friend to uninstall/disable said firewall. So, natually, friend who is now running XP on a broadband connection gets worm-infested in short order.
Cycle repeats. Ugh.
The only solution, I think, in this case, is to charge your "friend" consecutively higher amounts for fixing the same problem, until they start to "see the light" and take some of your recommendations. Either that, or they stop bugging you, and start bugging someone else, to fix their computer for them. My problem is that, being friends, I generally don't charge them, or just charge them a fixed token amount for my time, generally regardless of how much time it actually takes me to fix their particular problem. I'm always doing more work than I need to, because I see other things that need fixing. I'm just kind of pro-active on computer security that way. (That attitude has served me very well, personally. I'm sure that most of you in this forum are the same way.)
I have a few more people that I know, that variously, actually *like* to install wierd spyware-ish things, like WeatherBug, Bonzi Buddy, Gator, etc. They actually use them! I was flabbergasted and amazed.
I guess these are the same sorts of people that like to recieve junk snail-mail, because it makes them feel wanted and gives them something to do. But eventually, their computer starts to run so slowly to become unusable, or has other wierd "issues", and inevitably, I'm called back in, to help fix it. Arrg.
Those people are even harder to work with, they aren't just ignorant of the security/malware issues, they in fact actively act against the recommended rules of safe computing. I'm not sure what the long-term solution is in this particular case, but the person is always generous when paying me, so I guess that makes up for it.
VirtualLarry
No Lifer
- Aug 25, 2001
- 56,587
- 10,225
- 126
Interesting idea, almost like being a web-host reseller. Will most small shops go for something like that?
Personally, I know enough that I would probably just do the buying of parts from a small shop, and do the build myself, and accept the responsibility of RMA'ing things for the client, but your solution does seem to have an advantage of possibly less labor/overhead after the build.
Most of the small shops, that I am aware of, if you buy the whole PC there, are pretty good about dealing with hardware issues if they pop up during the first few years of the lifetime of the computer. Software issues are another thing entirely though.
I haven't really checked recently, what's the going rate for things like spyware removal and a full OS/hardware-driver re-installation?
I do quote my friends $50 over the cost of parts to put together a computer for them. (That's a no-profit sale, for friends, that just covers my time to put the parts together, smoke-test, and install the base OS. If I was going to charge, I'd probably slap on another $100 or so for profit-margin, I suppose.)
Bah I like doing Helpdesk also...
Im a Tier3 tech with a very large company and I make 23 bucks an hour to answer around 25 calls a day...
I consider that pretty good cash to sit on my ass and talk on the phone while web surfing..
Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but if you friend wants to play MMORPGS he better go 1 gig over the 512 you suggessted. Makes a HUGE difference
back to the matter at hand though...
never ever ever ever let anyone you care about buy an off the shelf cpu...
ever ever ever....
#1 Proprietary components.. and 99% of the time cases as well..
this means you can never ever upgrade without an added cost..
example.. my friend spent 3000 bucks on last years top dog Dell thinking he got a good deal on thier top of the line 3.06 P4 Hyperthreaded PC with an 9800XT stock in it..
he cannot ever upgrade this Motherboard without buying a new case the Motherboard dell sends is made by them.. it has none of the features or speed that we are used to having by being able to choose what we buy and what features are on them...
he has 0 SATA drive connects his PC is on average 20% slower than mine on same apps.. and now he cant even upgrade his 3k purchase without buying a new case casue of Dells Crappy Proprietary case.
#2 Pricing on what you get for your dollar...
you spend this amount of cash on a High end system you would expect it to have the best of the best...
when in fact it is a cheap knockoff that is mass produced at a lower cost than if they were to use brand name parts...
see Proprietary mother board example.. this board is bottlenecking his system.. it cost him 3x as much
as a top of the line ABIT ASUS or Intel board would have if you break down cost...
Dells job( and every other store bought system maker) is to sell you a BRAND NEW FULL PRICED system every few years.. they dont want to be in the upgrade game like the real world. they lose money on this.. rather they want to sell you a celeron box for 499.00 that cost them 150 to manufacture.
beware these computers... Dell Compaq HP Packard Bell the list is a mile long... do not ever let your loved ones or friends throw thier hard earned cash away...
every town in the world has small computer stores that will build and warranty the system you want at a much better price than they can offer.. using parts you picked out. not off the shelf garbage...
If you absolutly dont want to build and have a mountain of cash there is Alienware and Falcon Northwest
that will build your dreamsystem to order if you got the uber cash to pay 4x what that system is worth
never ever ever ever let anyone you care about buy an off the shelf cpu...
ever ever ever....
#1 Proprietary components.. and 99% of the time cases as well..
this means you can never ever upgrade without an added cost..
example.. my friend spent 3000 bucks on last years top dog Dell thinking he got a good deal on thier top of the line 3.06 P4 Hyperthreaded PC with an 9800XT stock in it..
he cannot ever upgrade this Motherboard without buying a new case the Motherboard dell sends is made by them.. it has none of the features or speed that we are used to having by being able to choose what we buy and what features are on them...
he has 0 SATA drive connects his PC is on average 20% slower than mine on same apps.. and now he cant even upgrade his 3k purchase without buying a new case casue of Dells Crappy Proprietary case.
#2 Pricing on what you get for your dollar...
you spend this amount of cash on a High end system you would expect it to have the best of the best...
when in fact it is a cheap knockoff that is mass produced at a lower cost than if they were to use brand name parts...
see Proprietary mother board example.. this board is bottlenecking his system.. it cost him 3x as much
as a top of the line ABIT ASUS or Intel board would have if you break down cost...
Dells job( and every other store bought system maker) is to sell you a BRAND NEW FULL PRICED system every few years.. they dont want to be in the upgrade game like the real world. they lose money on this.. rather they want to sell you a celeron box for 499.00 that cost them 150 to manufacture.
beware these computers... Dell Compaq HP Packard Bell the list is a mile long... do not ever let your loved ones or friends throw thier hard earned cash away...
every town in the world has small computer stores that will build and warranty the system you want at a much better price than they can offer.. using parts you picked out. not off the shelf garbage...
If you absolutly dont want to build and have a mountain of cash there is Alienware and Falcon Northwest
that will build your dreamsystem to order if you got the uber cash to pay 4x what that system is worth
I can see people here are geeks first and businessmen wayyyyyy down the line.
I keep hearing the same crap over and over again. "I can build a machine so much cheaper than Dell." Well guess what, you can't. Add this into your final price. OS (for some reason people keep forgetting you have to pay for this...hmmmm), mouse/keyboard, speakers, and now let's get to the expensive stuff. Let's add up the labor cost. If you are going to do this for free, I'm glad you are into charity work because I'm not. Otherwise, I'd charge at least $200 to put this thing togther for them, anything less ain't worth my time. Next, I see you guys like to throw in hardware manufactures' warranties. Are the parents/customer going to troubleshoot which component failed and THEN call the manufacturer? Please. People want to call ONE number when something breaks. Even if they get transferred, they still dial the one initial number. No average customer is going to go, "Oh, my Seagate drive failed, let me call Seaget to replace the drive." It's more like this, "my PC is broke, I need someone to fix it. Let me call the guy who built it."
The facts are, you USED to be able to build a machine cheaper than Dell, but now you can't. What you can do is build a better machine, but it's going to be at a higher cost. I prefer to build my own machines, but I ALWAYS recommend anyone who asks me about buying a PC, to go get a Dell. It's a great machine, and I don't have to deal with their crap when things break. And they WILL break. It's no fault of the person/company that built the machine, it's just that users will end up hosing their machine (usually through software). It's inevitable.
If you want to build them a machine, have at it. I have better thing to do with my time....like build my own.
I keep hearing the same crap over and over again. "I can build a machine so much cheaper than Dell." Well guess what, you can't. Add this into your final price. OS (for some reason people keep forgetting you have to pay for this...hmmmm), mouse/keyboard, speakers, and now let's get to the expensive stuff. Let's add up the labor cost. If you are going to do this for free, I'm glad you are into charity work because I'm not. Otherwise, I'd charge at least $200 to put this thing togther for them, anything less ain't worth my time. Next, I see you guys like to throw in hardware manufactures' warranties. Are the parents/customer going to troubleshoot which component failed and THEN call the manufacturer? Please. People want to call ONE number when something breaks. Even if they get transferred, they still dial the one initial number. No average customer is going to go, "Oh, my Seagate drive failed, let me call Seaget to replace the drive." It's more like this, "my PC is broke, I need someone to fix it. Let me call the guy who built it."
The facts are, you USED to be able to build a machine cheaper than Dell, but now you can't. What you can do is build a better machine, but it's going to be at a higher cost. I prefer to build my own machines, but I ALWAYS recommend anyone who asks me about buying a PC, to go get a Dell. It's a great machine, and I don't have to deal with their crap when things break. And they WILL break. It's no fault of the person/company that built the machine, it's just that users will end up hosing their machine (usually through software). It's inevitable.
If you want to build them a machine, have at it. I have better thing to do with my time....like build my own.
HAHAHAH rofl..
so what youre saying is that you have more money than brains?
obviously you do.. beacsue your reading comprehension is very bad...
you dont have to pay a fortune for a custom built gaming rig.. you will 100% guarenteed pay 200% more than it costs to build or have a local shop build you a cpu with your choice in parts..
I just built for example.. the rig in my signature... I did not use my wholesale account and I still came out at 1000 bucks .. that includes 12x Liton DVD Burner.. brand new Logitech Keyboard and Logitech laser mouse new Power supply new Case and about 50 bucks on things to just make the case stand out...
go to Dell. com and price out a brand new Intel P4 HT 3.06 with a gig of ram a 12x DVD and a Flat panel POS monitor.. ( this system is in the same class as the 64) you will spend way more than 1 k..
btw i got a 21 Inch .25 dp Viewsonic monitor outa this deal brand new for 99 bucks.. it has a scratch on the top case.. not the screen... still stayed under 1k
AND on top of that.. I have an 100% upgradeable system for the next round of PC boards you wont...
so you keep thinking your the one getting the better deal.. and Ill keep laughing as my 1000 box smashes Dell and HP 2500 dollar machines...
so what youre saying is that you have more money than brains?
obviously you do.. beacsue your reading comprehension is very bad...
you dont have to pay a fortune for a custom built gaming rig.. you will 100% guarenteed pay 200% more than it costs to build or have a local shop build you a cpu with your choice in parts..
I just built for example.. the rig in my signature... I did not use my wholesale account and I still came out at 1000 bucks .. that includes 12x Liton DVD Burner.. brand new Logitech Keyboard and Logitech laser mouse new Power supply new Case and about 50 bucks on things to just make the case stand out...
go to Dell. com and price out a brand new Intel P4 HT 3.06 with a gig of ram a 12x DVD and a Flat panel POS monitor.. ( this system is in the same class as the 64) you will spend way more than 1 k..
btw i got a 21 Inch .25 dp Viewsonic monitor outa this deal brand new for 99 bucks.. it has a scratch on the top case.. not the screen... still stayed under 1k
AND on top of that.. I have an 100% upgradeable system for the next round of PC boards you wont...
so you keep thinking your the one getting the better deal.. and Ill keep laughing as my 1000 box smashes Dell and HP 2500 dollar machines...
I've built dozens of PC's for people and I gotta say, the profit ain't worth the hassle unless you ARE a business and offer guarantees, etc. (a computer store basically)
having people call up for things that aren't even related with you is just plain annoying.. so I've almost stopped building for people unless they are good friends. and/or family.
having people call up for things that aren't even related with you is just plain annoying.. so I've almost stopped building for people unless they are good friends. and/or family.
that I agree with but I can still recommend at least 6 differnent Local PC stores that will build a machine with the componants you choose and warranty it to match Dells best warranty.
and for a better price.
and for a better price.
Man, I wish I was as smart as you.
Dell Dimension 8400
P4 3GHz (800FSB socket 775)
Dell 720 Color Printer
1 Year Warranty
1GB DDR2
160GB SATA hard drive
16X DVD-ROM Drive
128MB PCI Express? x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon? X300 SE
Integrated Gigabit Ethernet
Sound Blaster Audigy?2
Dell ® Quietkey ® Keyboard
Dell® 2-button scroll mouse
Windows XP Home
WordPerfect
MS Money 2004 Standard
Total= $1106
Since you think you got such a good deal on your monitor, I left it off the list and they can go get another $99 LCD monitor since they are readily available, right? They can also purchase a 6800 GT when they come out with the PCI-E version. Oh look at that, you don't have a PCI-E slot. Maybe yours isn't as upgradeable as you thought.
After everything is said and done with, the Dell machine is a VERY comparable machine, price AND performance wise, and it even comes with its own support.
Now what were you saying about brains?
I like Dell. They've made me some extra change on the side
. I work for a company that allows employees to purchase a Dell through payroll deduction. Guess whom they call when they have a problem? I'm one of the ones that were suckered into buying a Dell and I called tech support just to ask a question, and what everyone is saying about the foreign languages is true. I?ll never buy another Dell again because you can?t upgrade the MB from places like NewEgg without modding the case.I build my own however:
DELL FVCKING ROCKS.
I have a Dimensions 2400 that I use as a jukebox more or less. My house was struck by lightning sunday night. Direct hit fried three PCs (all hooked into good surge protectors). Called Dell yesterday told them I had it narrowed down to the mobo. He said he would ship a motherboard/cpu/psu/ram out just in case. 9:30 this morning Airborne express is knocking on my door with the components.
DELL FVCKING ROCKS
I won't be recommending them because it will destroy my market base but thay do rock. Newegg won't have my parts here till tomorrow (not complaining). I guess I should note that I spend a lot of money ordering LCDs from Dell (customers wanting 2001fps) but I doubt that makes a difference.
DELL FVCKING ROCKS.
I have a Dimensions 2400 that I use as a jukebox more or less. My house was struck by lightning sunday night. Direct hit fried three PCs (all hooked into good surge protectors). Called Dell yesterday told them I had it narrowed down to the mobo. He said he would ship a motherboard/cpu/psu/ram out just in case. 9:30 this morning Airborne express is knocking on my door with the components.
DELL FVCKING ROCKS
I won't be recommending them because it will destroy my market base but thay do rock. Newegg won't have my parts here till tomorrow (not complaining). I guess I should note that I spend a lot of money ordering LCDs from Dell (customers wanting 2001fps) but I doubt that makes a difference.
LOL. I know of two incidences that they're so called tech support wouldn't even walk they're very valuable customer through a re-install of windows. They had a virus and it wouldn't allow the restore disk format the HDD or repair install, I don't know either. I end up having to format using an old win98 floppy.
IF you do build them a PC (which I hope you don't)...
Make sure and install a copy of GoBack, to roll they suystem back after they screw it up. It's much better than wiping and doing a fresh install of eveything.
You can install GoBack from the SystemWorks 2003 disk. You can get a copy from a major online auction site for less than $15 shipped... Well worth the $$
2003 will work fine with XP Home or Pro, 2004 requires activation.
Rolling their system back to a working state is something you can walk them through very easily over the phone.
I won't build a PC for someone without it!
Make sure and install a copy of GoBack, to roll they suystem back after they screw it up. It's much better than wiping and doing a fresh install of eveything.
You can install GoBack from the SystemWorks 2003 disk. You can get a copy from a major online auction site for less than $15 shipped... Well worth the $$
2003 will work fine with XP Home or Pro, 2004 requires activation.
Rolling their system back to a working state is something you can walk them through very easily over the phone.
I won't build a PC for someone without it!
Well that's great. Then you can volunteer your services to walk them through that.
Secondly, you don't reinstall Windows. It's called a restore disc. Just boot off it and it restores your machine to how it was when they first got it. Easy enough?
Originally posted by: Blain
IF you do build them a PC (which I hope you don't)...
Make sure and install a copy of GoBack, to roll they suystem back after they screw it up. It's much better than wiping and doing a fresh install of eveything.
You can install GoBack from the SystemWorks 2003 disk. You can get a copy from a major online auction site for less than $15 shipped... Well worth the $$
2003 will work fine with XP Home or Pro, 2004 requires activation.
Rolling their system back to a working state is something you can walk them through very easily over the phone.
I won't build a PC for someone without it!
I prefer giving them a bootable DVD image disc. If they totally hoes their machine up, tell them to insert the DVD, reboot and their machine will be back to the state it was when it was brand new. It doesn't get any easier than that.
LOL, Agreed!Originally posted by: JackBurton
...........Oh, I'm not saying they have the best tech support. I'm just saying it's better them than me.
Basically boils down to support. They certainly will get more system when its built by you, though does not mean your life will be support-free after you build the system. As we all know, there's plenty of ways to screw up a fine "home built" system!
I agree with zainali that if YOU build the system, you may be leaving yourself open to a support nightmare. They will look to YOU for Every. Problem. They. Have. And even others they do not have, but think they do! Think they know they may need to run spybot or ad-aware once in a while? Do they know what to delete after running these apps? What if for example you build them a super riffic system that runs like the dickens, and they call you and say "your system takes longer to boot than my brother's wife's blah-blah system"?? - yeah, you can listen and then explain it, but do you want to? What is the kid like you're building the system for? Is he going to click and download/install stuff he shouldn't? My neighbor has a 17 year old who nearly wrecks the PC every other week with all the bulls**t he grabs.
With a top-three vendor, they get a number to call for problems, be they hardware, software or otherwise. They also have the kind of warranty the parents seem to be thinking of: I call Dell, versus western digital, antec, plextor, ati, corsair, asus, etc. Even if Dell support isn't what it used to be and you're the world's best PC tech, it wont matter if they call you even once and you're not available - they're going to feel stuck. A warranty-with-one-number-to-call seems far more important to them than pure game-busting speed or, ahem, overclocking. As far as upgradeability, any system from a big vendor is going to be expandable where they will probably need it : 2nd harddrive, 2nd optical drive. What is the likelihood of the peeps purchasing young Timmy a new CPU in 12-36 months?
dawurz
I agree with zainali that if YOU build the system, you may be leaving yourself open to a support nightmare. They will look to YOU for Every. Problem. They. Have. And even others they do not have, but think they do!
Think they know they may need to run spybot or ad-aware once in a while? Do they know what to delete after running these apps? What if for example you build them a super riffic system that runs like the dickens, and they call you and say "your system takes longer to boot than my brother's wife's blah-blah system"?? - yeah, you can listen and then explain it, but do you want to? What is the kid like you're building the system for? Is he going to click and download/install stuff he shouldn't? My neighbor has a 17 year old who nearly wrecks the PC every other week with all the bulls**t he grabs.With a top-three vendor, they get a number to call for problems, be they hardware, software or otherwise. They also have the kind of warranty the parents seem to be thinking of: I call Dell, versus western digital, antec, plextor, ati, corsair, asus, etc. Even if Dell support isn't what it used to be and you're the world's best PC tech, it wont matter if they call you even once and you're not available - they're going to feel stuck. A warranty-with-one-number-to-call seems far more important to them than pure game-busting speed or, ahem, overclocking. As far as upgradeability, any system from a big vendor is going to be expandable where they will probably need it : 2nd harddrive, 2nd optical drive. What is the likelihood of the peeps purchasing young Timmy a new CPU in 12-36 months?
dawurz
If you build, not only will you be responsible for hardware and software issues, you will also take on the fvckups they do on the computer...over and over and... In short, you will be their 24-7 tech support. Are you willing to do that? If so, go for it.
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