Holy Smokes!!! High end CRT's are back in stock!

[josh6079]

Zebo's first post:

Gamers who can't warm up to input lag and motion blur LCD's provide this might be your last chance at one of the best CRT's ever made.

One of Zebo's later posts:

Guys there is no fixing blurry and poor convergence on CRTs....just like there is no fixing input lag and motion blur on LCD's

What Ackmed's reading grasped:

I simply pointed out that in his very first post, he put down LCDs, and has several times since. Has not done the same to CRTs

He's not promoting one or the other, just saying that each have their pros and cons. Picking one or the other will result in a compromise in what is or isn't important to a gamer.

 

[JRW]

Originally posted by: josh6079

Guys there is no fixing blurry and poor convergence on CRTs....just like there is no fixing input lag and motion blur on LCD's

Theres ways to fix poor convergence and focus on CRTs but its not exactly user friendly methods, on Sony PC CRTs if it cant be fixed from the user menu theres ways to access much finer adjustments via sony software (windas) and a monitor to PC serial cable connection (the software allows you to access the monitors firmware). I fixed a 6 year old Sony G400 which was suffering from the infamous washed out / poor black levels symptom with this method.

 

[CP5670]

I concede that a good 8-bit IPS can beat even the best CRTs in contrast and color saturation. My main issue is the slow response time... if they can make considerably faster panels and virtually eliminate blur/lag, then LCDs are a clear winner.

LCDs have indeed surpassed CRTs in color saturation (basically the brightness and to a lesser extent the color gamut), but the contrast (or rather the black point) is one area where they still lag behind good CRTs considerably. The difference is not that noticeable in the daytime and in particular, the screens with the glossy coating (regardless of their panel type) can show an awesome pure black, but it's quite a different story in a pitch dark room.

Blah, was about to hit the purchase button till I read one thing; "aperture grille". I don't care what opinions some may hold, the most important aspect of any sort of display is realism, and realism is defined as closeness to reality. Reality is alot closer to the dot pitch of ofthe best shadow mask monitors than aperture grille's spaced out little rectangles. Could never have my cake and eat it too though as the best shadow mask monitors were Phillips, which had blah color compared to NEC and late model Trinitrons.

Image detail or color?

I'm not sure why that pixel arrangement is a good thing, given that the image that's fed into the monitor consists of square pixels. I think that jittered grid arrangement is actually the reason why shadow masks don't have such great local color uniformity (i.e. a pure white image appears to have slightly darker "patches" scattered on it) and result in the relatively "blah color."

It's a compromise. Until SED comes, then these discussions will end..

I hope they come out some time next year, although I'm not too optimistic about it at this point. I don't want to have to take my CRT with me to grad school.

Theres ways to fix poor convergence and focus on CRTs but its not exactly user friendly methods, on Sony PC CRTs if it cant be fixed from the user menu theres ways to access much finer adjustments via sony software (windas) and a monitor to PC serial cable connection (the software allows you to access the monitors firmware). I fixed a 6 year old Sony G400 which was suffering from the infamous washed out / poor black levels symptom with this method.

On the NEC/Mitsu models, there are some holes in the back that let you adjust the focus directly with a screwdriver. Those controls are actually quite vital to making it look right. My CRT (the good one) looked reasonably sharp but not comparable to LCDs for the first month or so that I had it, but that all changed when I spent some time adjusting those screws.

 

[JRW]

Originally posted by: CP5670

On the NEC/Mitsu models, there are some holes in the back that let you adjust the focus directly with a screwdriver. Those controls are actually quite vital to making it look right. My CRT (the good one) looked reasonably sharp but not comparable to LCDs for the first month or so that I had it, but that all changed when I spent some time adjusting those screws.

Ya unfortunately Sony monitors only have focus adjustments via firmware , no screws to turn.

 

[Ackmed]

You're going to have to get over your grudge you have with my josh. Your brother got banned by his own accord, let it go. You're ignorant trolling of me is pretty silly, and frankly, childish. You claim that my monitor is only better than his in bulk alone, is full of ignorance. Keep posting after me if you like, Ill just ignore you. But by all means, keep spinning your wheels.

 

[Avalon]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
You're going to have to get over your grudge you have with my josh. Your brother got banned by his own accord, let it go. You're ignorant trolling of me is pretty silly, and frankly, childish. You claim that my monitor is only better than his in bulk alone, is full of ignorance. Keep posting after me if you like, Ill just ignore you. But by all means, keep spinning your wheels.

I fail to see why this is relevent.. You claimed that Zebo has slandered LCDs several times in this thread and hasn't said a bad thing about CRTs, but you blatantly ignore Zebo admitting that CRTs have convergence problems and that the CRT vs LCD thing is ultimately a compromise based on personal preference.

Going off tangent does nothing to hide the fact that your claimed statement in question was wrong. I see nothing wrong with Josh's post you are referring to.

 

[redbox]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
You're going to have to get over your grudge you have with my josh. Your brother got banned by his own accord, let it go. You're ignorant trolling of me is pretty silly, and frankly, childish. You claim that my monitor is only better than his in bulk alone, is full of ignorance. Keep posting after me if you like, Ill just ignore you. But by all means, keep spinning your wheels.

OFF TOPIC:
Ok Ackmed lets get one thing right. I did get banned by my own actions, I take full resposiblity for those actions and I don't blame you or the mod for my ban. What I said to you long ago was wrong and doesn't have it's place in an open forum or really anywhere for that matter.

What I do have a problem with is your claim that I sent you insulting PM's. That has never happend.

But these problems are neither here nor there and don't have anything to do with this thread. I would suggest that if Josh's posts upset you so then do what you claim you will do and just ignore them. Just don't dredge up long gone issues into a thread that has nothing to do with them.

ON TOPIC:

I have used both a high end CRT and a pretty good LCD. I find I like the LCD better. I have a smaller desk and putting a big CRT on it isn't that easy. Plus I really like widescreen gaming. I did like the fact that resolutions didn't matter too much for the CRT. In the end it's really just comes down to personal choice like so many other computer componets.

 

[JRW]

Originally posted by: redbox

I have used both a high end CRT and a pretty good LCD. I find I like the LCD better. I have a smaller desk and putting a big CRT on it isn't that easy. Plus I really like widescreen gaming. I did like the fact that resolutions didn't matter too much for the CRT. In the end it's really just comes down to personal choice like so many other computer componets.

Widescreen gaming is possible on the FW900 CRT

 

[josh6079]

You're going to have to get over your grudge you have with my josh. Your brother got banned by his own accord, let it go. You're ignorant trolling of me is pretty silly, and frankly, childish. You claim that my monitor is only better than his in bulk alone, is full of ignorance. Keep posting after me if you like, Ill just ignore you. But by all means, keep spinning your wheels.

Ok, it's obvious you need some cliff notes again.

All of the below comments are paraphrased unless marked by quote marks:

Zebo: For those who don't like LCD's, this might be the last chance to get a good CRT.

Ackmed: It's obvious you don't like LCD's and are a fanboy of CRT monitors even though you own the most expensive 1680x1050 LCD monitor...

josh6079: Uh, he said that CRT's have issues too...

Ackmed: You just have a grudge with "my josh"!! My monitor is better than his besides it's higher resolution but I'm not going specify in what!! I've said it a million times that I'm just going to ignore you but can't help making a fool of myself by showing how inaccurate my reading comprehension is!!!

Avalon: I don't see what is wrong with Josh's post, you said that Zebo hasn't stated anything negative about CRT's, Josh showed a post of his that did, you go nuts...

I can't wait to hear why you think Avalon, Zebo, and I are all pals :laugh:

It's a good thing you're going to be gone for a while....because at this rate all Video is going to turn into is Ackmed vs. "Pals"....

 

[Mem]

One thing I did not see meantioned about CRTs is focus problems,I won't tell you how many new CRTs I have sent back due to poor focus settings,also CRTs tend to lose focus quality with time,lucky LCDs don't have that problem,was a pain boxing big CRTs back due to these type of problems.

My eyes really thank me for my LCD,plus I'm getting old now so need to look after them .

 

[Regs]

LCD's were made {historical} for people who wanted to use less space and less power. But mostly, it's about cosmetics and commercial and industrialist office users.

If you say an LCD has better image quality than a CRT, you're stating your opinion. Though I tend to give opinions of CRTs that have better image quality more merit because the roots of the CRT. Considering an LCD was not originally made for the same purpose of a CRT.

 

[JRW]

Actually CNET to this day still uses a Sony 34XBR960 HDTV CRT as a refrence monitor when rating other HDTVs (LCD / PLASMA / DLP etc.) , Thats saying a lot when it comes to the possible picture quality on CRTs. Its to bad so many poor quality CRTs existed as a lot of people dont realise how good they really can look.

I bought an 34XBR960 HDTV about 7 months ago and the quality is nothing short of amazing. (Xbox360 / DVDs / HD channels , heck even SD channels look great).

 

[josh6079]

Originally posted by: JRW

Originally posted by: josh6079

Guys there is no fixing blurry and poor convergence on CRTs....just like there is no fixing input lag and motion blur on LCD's

Theres ways to fix poor convergence and focus on CRTs but its not exactly user friendly methods, on Sony PC CRTs if it cant be fixed from the user menu theres ways to access much finer adjustments via sony software (windas) and a monitor to PC serial cable connection (the software allows you to access the monitors firmware). I fixed a 6 year old Sony G400 which was suffering from the infamous washed out / poor black levels symptom with this method.

I didn't say that CRT's had poor convergence, that was Zebo.

Originally posted by: Mem
One thing I did not see meantioned about CRTs is focus problems,I won't tell you how many new CRTs I have sent back due to poor focus settings,also CRTs tend to lose focus quality with time,lucky LCDs don't have that problem,was a pain boxing big CRTs back due to these type of problems.

I know what you mean. No monitor I've ever used is as crisp and sharp as my 20WMGX2, even when using by Trinitron at 2048x1536.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
... Owning different hardware, doesnt make you objective. ...

LOL! If only you could see the hypocrisy of your own posts ackmed. Yes, in *your* case it's definitely true that owning different hardware, doesnt make you objective as evidenced by your 7800 SLi ownership and public nvidia stance in this forum.

Thanks for the laugh, thats almost signature material.

 

[deadseasquirrel]

I love my Mitsu 2070sb. It was the absolute best $300 I ever spent on a piece of computer hardware when I got it almost 2 years ago. I liked it so much I got 2 of the 930SBs for my kids' machines. My study looks like a Nec-Mitsu refurb factory. But it's bitter-sweet because I know that they're the last CRTs I'm going to own. I'm sure I'll never find another CRT that looks as good. One thing is for sure, no matter how much I love this 2070sb, I wouldn't drop $800 at NE for a new one.

 

[QueBert]

BAH to LCD's! The only way I will ever switch to LCD is if they create one that gives me the same satisfying click sound my CRT makes when I change resolution. Changing resolution on a LCD = boring.

 

[josh6079]

Originally posted by: QueBert
BAH to LCD's! The only way I will ever switch to LCD is if they create one that gives me the same satisfying click sound my CRT makes when I change resolution. Changing resolution on a LCD = boring.

...so you pick your monitor depending on how it sounds?

 

[QueBert]

Originally posted by: josh6079

Originally posted by: QueBert
BAH to LCD's! The only way I will ever switch to LCD is if they create one that gives me the same satisfying click sound my CRT makes when I change resolution. Changing resolution on a LCD = boring.

...so you pick your monitor depending on how it sounds?

No image quality is #1, but if it doesn't click when it changes resolutions, I refuse to use it. There's something old school and relaxing to me about hearing my 21" CRT click when a game switches it to 1600x1200 res. LCD's don't make no click, so they get no love for me.

Oh yeah and to my eyes no LCD matches my CRT, I even saw one of those Ub3r IBM lcd's that's supposed to be like 200dpi's of freshness, I wasn't impressed. I'm American, I like things big, not small. LCD's are for girly men (as Arnold would say) I have 2 spare never been used CRT's so incase this one dies I won't be forced to downgrade to an LCD.

but to each his own.

 

[CP5670]

To be fair, my 2070 doesn't make any clicking sound either.

 

[JRW]

My FW900 is louder than any CRT ive owned when it comes to switching resolutions lol.

Im considering buying that NEC CRT newegg is selling as a backup monitor for later but man , $800 + shipping & taxes (im in CA.) just seems a bit outrageous for a 22" 4:3 CRT, Im waiting for recent user comments on newegg but so far nothing. They have 16 units left in stock.

EDIT: CP5670 (or anyone that might know) Does the NEC FP2141SB have the various superbright modes?

Ah nvm I found the manual on amazon.com, it does have 3 SB modes like my Sony G520P.

 

[CP5670]

If I didn't already have one, I would actually be willing to pay that price if I could be somehow guaranteed to get a good one (in which case it would be better than anything else I could buy new for $800). Unfortunately, that's a pretty big if.

EDIT: CP5670 (or anyone that might know) Does the NEC FP2141SB have the various superbright modes?

Yes, the SB stands for Superbright.

 

[Dethfrumbelo]

Originally posted by: CP5670
If I didn't already have one, I would actually be willing to pay that price if I could be somehow guaranteed to get a good one (in which case it would be better than anything else I could buy new for $800). Unfortunately, that's a pretty big if.

EDIT: CP5670 (or anyone that might know) Does the NEC FP2141SB have the various superbright modes?

Yes, the SB stands for Superbright.

Before I would buy one of these again, I'd definitely want to know where it was manufactured. I'm not touching anything made in Mexico, whether it's a CRT, LCD, or blender. If it was made in Japan, that would be ideal, but I don't think there were any CRTs made in the last 3-4 years that came from Japan.

$800 is a lot of money to begin with, and if you do get a bad one, shipping it back for replacement ($50) is also painful.

 

[CP5670]

Two of the bad ones I got were made in China, while the third bad one and the good one were both made in Japan. I think what really matters with these monitors is the date. Anything between January and March 2004 or after October 2004 should be avoided. The good one I have is a June 2004 model and I've heard that the 2002 and 2003 ones are safe bets too. Unfortunately, almost all the ones you can still buy new are the crap late 2004 units. NEC actually covers shipping both ways on RMAs with these things, but it's still a serious hassle to go through a couple of them before you end up with a good one.

If you can get them to give you the serial number of the exact unit you're buying, you can tell the production date from it.

This sort of thing basically applies to all of the high end CRTs. If you manage to find a new one, chances are that it's from the final production runs, which are the exactly the ones you want to avoid.

 

[xtknight]

So is Newegg just selling clearance or what? Did they actually start up the fabs for these CRTs again? Nobody else seems to be selling them.

 

[deadseasquirrel]

Originally posted by: CP5670
Anything between January and March 2004 or after October 2004 should be avoided. The good one I have is a June 2004 model and I've heard that the 2002 and 2003 ones are safe bets too.

My 2070SB is Oct 2002 Japan. My 2 930SBs are Sep 2003 and June 2004, both Japan.