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holy gruesomeness!!

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In case anyone cares:

Official statistics of the conflict

Palestinians killed:
859 deaths including 77 assassinations.
26% < 18 years. 85.4 % civilian. 203 killed by heavy weapons. 529 killed by live ammunition.

Palestinians injured: 20.000+
West Bank:29.5% children, 32.7% live ammunition, 64.7% upper body, 39% moderate-severe (14,523 cases, 27/11)
Gaza Strip: 57% children, 37% live ammunition, 60% upper body, (4,279 cases-Aug 7th)

Israelis killed:
212 of which 64% soldiers or settlers

Attacks on Emergency Medical Personnel and Services:
3 (1 German & 2 Palestinian) physicians killed from Israeli shelling of residential areas while on duty.
1 Palestinian Red Crescent Society (PRCS) ambulance driver killed while on duty.
116 PRCS Emergency Medical Technicians injured. 46 Union of Palestinian Medical Relief Committees (UPMRC) first aid workers injured (including 2 physicians).
60 (69% of their fleet) PRCS ambulances hit by live ammunition, rubber bullets, and/or stones thrown by Israeli settlers in 159 separate attacks. 221 incidents of denial of access to PRCS ambulances at roadblocks were reported. 43 incidents of denial of access to UPMRC teams

Source More there.

Things aren't as black & white as many of you think
 


<< no double standard at all. The palestinians choose their path of evil and violence. They could have chosen the path of ghandi, of dr king, but instead decided that the price for revenge was worth the destruction of any future for their children. They are the people that teach their children hate, they have trading cards with suicide bombers for their children to have as role models. These people long ago decided that any means was justified, and that all israelis or infidels were equal targets in war. they declared that children and women were legitimate targets. This rings of hitler at best, and it is onyl that they lack power that damage has not been done. They are not reasonable people, they don't want peace, they damn every chance at peace that they get. I have no sympathy for these people.

They are the ones that turned an olympics into a blood bath for gods sake, even hitler kept his hands off that. >>



Couldn't same be said about Israel? They are the ones who occupied areas reserved for palestinians in the 1948 war, they are the ones responsible for the massacre in Chatra and Chabila refugee-camps, they are the ones who allow people to set up illegal settlements in west-bank, they are the ones who are stealing the clean-water supplies from palestinians...

The door swings both ways.
 
Nemesis77,

You link to statistics from a Palestinian web site and think that bolsters your case? Excuse me. Bwuahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!

Russ, NCNE
 


<< Nemesis77,

You link to statistics from a Palestinian web site and think that bolsters your case? Excuse me. Bwuahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!

Russ, NCNE >>



I found that site from NIMN , a jewish organisation.

And does it automatically make the information false if the organisation (HDIP) in question operate in palestinian territory? After all, they would have the most accurate information. And many don't seem to have any problems accepting the israeli "truth".

EDIT: Linkified
 


<< In case anyone cares:

Official statistics of the conflict

Palestinians killed:
859 deaths including 77 assassinations.
26% < 18 years. 85.4 % civilian. 203 killed by heavy weapons. 529 killed by live ammunition.

Palestinians injured: 20.000+
West Bank:29.5% children, 32.7% live ammunition, 64.7% upper body, 39% moderate-severe (14,523 cases, 27/11)
Gaza Strip: 57% children, 37% live ammunition, 60% upper body, (4,279 cases-Aug 7th)

Israelis killed:
212 of which 64% soldiers or settlers

Attacks on Emergency Medical Personnel and Services:
3 (1 German & 2 Palestinian) physicians killed from Israeli shelling of residential areas while on duty.
1 Palestinian Red Crescent Society (PRCS) ambulance driver killed while on duty.
116 PRCS Emergency Medical Technicians injured. 46 Union of Palestinian Medical Relief Committees (UPMRC) first aid workers injured (including 2 physicians).
60 (69% of their fleet) PRCS ambulances hit by live ammunition, rubber bullets, and/or stones thrown by Israeli settlers in 159 separate attacks. 221 incidents of denial of access to PRCS ambulances at roadblocks were reported. 43 incidents of denial of access to UPMRC teams

Source More there.

Things aren't as black & white as many of you think >>

Let's pretend I'm a soldier. Say you and a bunch of your friends use slingshots and some other weird inertial weapon to throw big fscking rocks and Molotov cocktails at me and my fellow soldiers just doing our job to guard and protect civilians. My soldier buddies and I are going to get some cover and shoot you and your friends.

Also, when suicide bombers come around, the Isreali government doesn't exactly shy away from using helicopter launched weapons. Give a little pounding to get the point across.

Who the hell said war is fair and that each side should have equal casualties? Although, war isn't precisely the most accurate term, because Israel does not act without provocation, whereas in war both sides are generally agressors (or one an agressor and the other a defender).

Hey by the way, I wonder if that site you got those stats are biased?

<< Our vision

"At this crucial junction in time, as Palestinians struggle to build the foundations of a free country, it is absolutely essential that a development vision and proper policies be adopted. To help achieve this, the Health, Development, Information and Policy Institute (HDIP) uses research, advocacy, capacity building and dialogue to promote community needs, proper development policies, and good governance. only then can Palestine live up to its potential as a democratic civil society." >>

 


<< Couldn't same be said about Israel? They are the ones who occupied areas reserved for palestinians in the 1948 war, they are the ones responsible for the massacre in Chatra and Chabila refugee-camps, they are the ones who allow people to set up illegal settlements in west-bank, they are the ones who are stealing the clean-water supplies from palestinians...

The door swings both ways. >>


The war of 1948 started a day after the state of Israel was created. It was an attemept by multiple Arab nations to destroy Israel from the get-go. And Israel occupied Gaza and the West Bank only after Egypt, Jordan, and Syria were in the beginning stages of of mounting a major offensive against Israel for the purpose (again) of destroying Israel.
 


<< Hey by the way, I wonder if that site you got those stats are biased? >>



Like I said, meny here seem to accept the israeli truth without a second thought. But as soon as someone posts information "from the other side", it's biased.

And, I found the link to that site from www.nimn.org, which is a jewish organisation
 
Vespasian,


<< Maybe so, but after viewing the last few days then by retaliate to every suicide bombing with more and more force like they have done results in just more and more retaliations by the Palestinian terrorists. So the way they are currently doing it isnt working, what other options do they have? >>

 
NOTE: NIMN is a pacifist organization that wants peace, daisies, long walks on the beach, and waffles on a Sunday pajama day. (really just the first thing in that list, the other stuff was just me being obnoxious and lightening the thread a little)

<< We call ourselves "Not In My Name" because we feel that the State Israel often claims to act in the name and interests of world Jewry, but that these actions do not reflect our Jewish values and beliefs. >>

Seems like a Jewish organization with some sympathy for the Palestinians from looking around the site a bit.
 
>>



Couldn't same be said about Israel? They are the ones who occupied areas reserved for palestinians in the 1948 war, they are the ones responsible for the massacre in Chatra and Chabila refugee-camps, they are the ones who allow people to set up illegal settlements in west-bank, they are the ones who are stealing the clean-water supplies from palestinians...

The door swings both ways.

wrong, the door swung far to the palestinians side and twitches occasionally. Peace was in the hands of the palestinians grasp until they decided to go the path of violence. as i've said ghandi and dr king prove that peace works. the palestinians just don't want israel around.
 


<<

<< Hey by the way, I wonder if that site you got those stats are biased? >>



Like I said, meny here seem to accept the israeli truth without a second thought. But as soon as someone posts information "from the other side", it's biased. >>

Where is the Israeli truth in this thread? I don't see any statistics posted from a blatantly biased Israeli web site.
 


<< Vespasian,


<< Maybe so, but after viewing the last few days then by retaliate to every suicide bombing with more and more force like they have done results in just more and more retaliations by the Palestinian terrorists. So the way they are currently doing it isnt working, what other options do they have? >>

 >>


To return to the Nazi concentration camps and be exterminated.
 


<< the palestinians just don't want israel around. >>

Yup, it's in their charter (still, despite some rumor to have taken that out). They want Isreal gone and the Jews driven into the Mediterranean.
 
One thing that puzzles me, so many people here think that when the Israeli military kills a Palestinian child its the Palestinians fault and when the Palestinians kill a Israeli child it is the Palestinians fault. Isnt that kinda seeing things balck and white?
 


<< NOTE: NIMN is a pacifist organization that wants peace, daisies, long walks on the beach, and waffles on a Sunday pajama day. (really just the first thing in that list, the other stuff was just me being obnoxious and lightening the thread a little) >>



So if they are not militant "let's kill everything that moves", they are automatically biased? Gotcha.
 


<<

<< the palestinians just don't want israel around. >>

Yup, it's in their charter (still, despite some rumor to have taken that out). They want Isreal gone and the Jews driven into the Mediterranean. >>


"And isnt that that the Isrealis want to drive the Palestinians to Jordan or some other country"

Same logic, take the words of some extremist and brand that on everyone.
 


<< One thing that puzzles me, so many people here think that when the Israeli military kills a Palestinian child its the Palestinians fault and when the Palestinians kill a Israeli child it is the Palestinians fault. Isnt that kinda seeing things balck and white? >>

I'll go out on a limb here and guess that you're referring to an Israeli child killed in a suicide bombing and a Palestinian child killed in a raid to root out terrorists. Does that answer your question? I think you were seeing it black and white - Isreali kills Palestinian child, Israeli's fault; Palestinian kills Israeli chil, Palestinian's fault.
 


<<

<< NOTE: NIMN is a pacifist organization that wants peace, daisies, long walks on the beach, and waffles on a Sunday pajama day. (really just the first thing in that list, the other stuff was just me being obnoxious and lightening the thread a little) >>



So if they are not militant "let's kill everything that moves", they are automatically biased? Gotcha. >>

No, but have you looked around the site?

If you found those stats on the AP Wire or CNN or something, I would accept them. I'm not even denying them, just noting that they were taken from a biased site. Why does it matter the source where you found the link? NIMN represents a miniscule amount of Jews, I had not even heard of it until you posted it - they CERTAINLY do not represent Jews as a whole.
 


<<

<< One thing that puzzles me, so many people here think that when the Israeli military kills a Palestinian child its the Palestinians fault and when the Palestinians kill a Israeli child it is the Palestinians fault. Isnt that kinda seeing things balck and white? >>

I'll go out on a limb here and guess that you're referring to an Israeli child killed in a suicide bombing and a Palestinian child killed in a raid to root out terrorists. Does that answer your question? I think you were seeing it black and white - Isreali kills Palestinian child, Israeli's fault; Palestinian kills Israeli chil, Palestinian's fault. >>


The reason is a different matter, the Palestinian Terrorist are trying to make a political point to the Isreali people and the Isreali army is trying to make a point to the Palestinian people. I have noticed so many people here say that it was the palestinians fault when a palestinian child dies when the Isrealis are "making a point".
 


<< NIMN represents a miniscule amount of Jews, I had not even heard of it until you posted it - they CERTAINLY do not represent Jews as a whole. >>


There are quite many in Isreal that do want a peaceful relations with Palestine, there is even an Isreali hospital that treats Palestinians free of charge.
 


<<

<<

<< the palestinians just don't want israel around. >>

Yup, it's in their charter (still, despite some rumor to have taken that out). They want Isreal gone and the Jews driven into the Mediterranean. >>


"And isnt that that the Isrealis want to drive the Palestinians to Jordan or some other country"

Same logic, take the words of some extremist and brand that on everyone. >>

The Palestinians were told to stay when Israel was formed, they ran to other Arab nations expecting a prompt Arab victory over the newly formed Israel and that they would then be able to return home. Didn't happen. They left their homes and were not welcomed into other Arab nations.
 


<< wrong, the door swung far to the palestinians side and twitches occasionally. Peace was in the hands of the palestinians grasp until they decided to go the path of violence. as i've said ghandi and dr king prove that peace works. the palestinians just don't want israel around. >>



To my knowledge, the current conflict was started the Ariel Sharon visited some muslim holy-sites and he made some not so flattering comments about the palestinians while he was there.

They were well on their way towards peace when Rabin was in power. But, like I'm sure you remember, he was killed by a jewish extremist. After his death, the peace-proceedings stalled, and they took a nosedive when Israel electec Ariel "The Butcher" sharon as their PM.

To say that palestinians are unable to make peace is wrong. They were already doing it. It fell apart when their israeli counterpart (Rabin) was killed.
 
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