Why do you think god let the holocaust go by? Millions of people died and god jsut sat there why do u think he did nothing about this?
holocaust and god
- Thread starter aceofskies05
- Start date
I guess it starts with.
Is God all powerful or is God all good? Thats where i kind of zoned out of my philosophy class.
Is God all powerful or is God all good? Thats where i kind of zoned out of my philosophy class.
God allows people to make their own decisions, whether they are right or wrong. Though a specific even may be absolutely horrible, God's ultimate plan that spans all of history is perfect. "All things work together for those who love God, to those who are called according to his purpose". Some people are chosen for salvation (a "remnant"), while the rest are chosen for unrighteousness and destruction. God does not cause people to sin, but He does allow it, and will continue to allow it until the return of Christ and the judgement. You cannot accuse God of unrighteousness; only He has the perfect will and knowledge to see and shape the awesome story of humanity. The great truth and mystery is that God chooses anyone to save, because we are all equally deserving of death and hell, every last one of us, because all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. It is only by the grace and love of God that anyone is saved.
As for the holocaust in particular, all I can say is that when it comes to the nation of Israel, God has often used tragic events in order to bring them back to Him. Whether that was His purpose in the holocaust, I cannot say, but the enslavement of His people in Egypt, the captivity in Babylon, and many other instances in the Bible were used by God in order to redeem the Israelites from sin. They repeatedly disobeyed God and turned to sinful pleasures and false gods. Half the time they brought themselves to the brink of destruction because of their sins as a nation, but God (always the loving Father) always intervened and saved them. That is why Israel has survived as a people all these thousands of years, longer than any other culture or people. God is glorified through the nation of Israel, which was and is His chosen people, the firstfruits by which us Gentiles could also be saved, and He will not let them be utterly destroyed.
There are more persecutions and times of great despair for the nation of Israel that will come, most notably during the end times, in which Israel will see its greatest revival as the chosen people of God among the nations, and in those days they will teach and proclaim the truth that Christ is the Messiah who came in this world to save us from sin and death. It is often through perilous times that people turn from pride and sin and cry out for God, and during the end times there will be many (millions, possibly over a billion) from Israel and throughout the world that will be saved.
" What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, ?I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.? So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, ?For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.?Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
You will say to me then, ?Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?? But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, ?Why have you made me like this?? Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? " - Romans 9:14-24
As for the holocaust in particular, all I can say is that when it comes to the nation of Israel, God has often used tragic events in order to bring them back to Him. Whether that was His purpose in the holocaust, I cannot say, but the enslavement of His people in Egypt, the captivity in Babylon, and many other instances in the Bible were used by God in order to redeem the Israelites from sin. They repeatedly disobeyed God and turned to sinful pleasures and false gods. Half the time they brought themselves to the brink of destruction because of their sins as a nation, but God (always the loving Father) always intervened and saved them. That is why Israel has survived as a people all these thousands of years, longer than any other culture or people. God is glorified through the nation of Israel, which was and is His chosen people, the firstfruits by which us Gentiles could also be saved, and He will not let them be utterly destroyed.
There are more persecutions and times of great despair for the nation of Israel that will come, most notably during the end times, in which Israel will see its greatest revival as the chosen people of God among the nations, and in those days they will teach and proclaim the truth that Christ is the Messiah who came in this world to save us from sin and death. It is often through perilous times that people turn from pride and sin and cry out for God, and during the end times there will be many (millions, possibly over a billion) from Israel and throughout the world that will be saved.
" What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, ?I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.? So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, ?For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.?Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
You will say to me then, ?Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?? But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, ?Why have you made me like this?? Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? " - Romans 9:14-24
It's hard to explain fully (I am not God, obviously), but while God does predestine people, there is, to us, the ability to choose whether to accept salvation and other choices we make in our life. From our human perspective, it looks like I chose to be saved, but it is actually and ultimately God who chose me and lead me to that point; there was nothing I did to be saved. I don't like to say free will is an "illusion", because I don't think that it is the case, but rather that our perspective is limited. It's like when a parent gets a child to do something in a way that he/she thinks is his/her own decision, but it was really the parent who made the decision. I'm not speaking about sinful decisions, but rather salvation. I think God knows perfectly what everyone is going to do, and has created everyone and knowing everything that would happen, setting His plan in motion, but I also know that people do choose of their own will to sin against Him. God did not cause Pharaoh to sin against Him, but rather God hardened his heart (God knows how people will react to different situations and things) so that God could show through signs and His Word that He indeed was and is God, and that He would deliver His people.
I'm not sure if that came out clear, because it is a concept that is hard to comprehend no matter what level of biblical understanding you have (much like the concept of infinity).
Why are you asking this? The only answers you will get are unsupported speculation. Assuming a god exists, nobody has the slightest clue as to the extent of his influence over humans or his motives.
you know how some files get corrupted on the computer sometimes and you just have to delete them? yeah well, pretend that you're god, and the holocaust was the deletion of the corrupted files...those files were probably the best files your computer will ever have...
db
Lifer
- Dec 6, 1999
- 10,575
- 292
- 126
I know you believe that, but I just can't accept it. I don't understand why God can't just make it simple without strings. Perhaps He did make it simple, but people added the strings.
addendum: unless Jesus explained the situation the way you just did, it's just someone giving their interpretation and others believing it, no matter how sincere they were/are.
addendum: unless Jesus explained the situation the way you just did, it's just someone giving their interpretation and others believing it, no matter how sincere they were/are.
BrokenVisage
Lifer
- Jan 29, 2005
- 24,771
- 14
- 81
I don't see it as there being strings, but I do know that God created the universe, and that He knew and knows every single thing that would ever happen or will happen. I'm not saying this to exalt myself, but rather that is the truth. I take great comfort in knowing that God is control, and that all things, no matter tough it gets in my life or in the world, will ultimately work for good and for the glory of God. To live in a world of chaos where you think you are your own god (or someone/something else is) is nothing but prideful and sad, and it is not the truth.
God is righteous, gracious, patient, perfect, and loving, and the more I get to know Him through His Word and by prayer, the happier I am to be content living in His will. It is when I disobey and live in the flesh that I am not content. Though living sinfully does have it's pleasures (only a fool or a liar would say otherwise), those pleasures are short lived and not eternal. Investing in that which is eternal, in doing the will of God, is the only way that will pay dividends for all eternity. I use human terms, but the rewards for serving God are far greater in this life and the life to come than you can realize.
The Sauce
Diamond Member
- Oct 31, 1999
- 4,741
- 34
- 91
This boils down to a very simple equation. God by definition is omnipotent and omniscient. So he knew that the holocaust was going to happen and he could have intervened to stop it. But he did not. Therefore god either does not exist or he is evil.
Consider what would have happened if you knew about the 9/11 attacks before hand and could have stopped them, but elected not to do anything about it. You then later go public with that information. You would be vilified as evil and probably imprisoned or executed. God gets a free pass time and time again under those same circumstances. If you would have been evil for not acting on your information about 9/11 and allowing thousands of innocent people to die, then god is evil for the same...or he doesn't exist - the more likely answer.
It's just that simple people.
Consider what would have happened if you knew about the 9/11 attacks before hand and could have stopped them, but elected not to do anything about it. You then later go public with that information. You would be vilified as evil and probably imprisoned or executed. God gets a free pass time and time again under those same circumstances. If you would have been evil for not acting on your information about 9/11 and allowing thousands of innocent people to die, then god is evil for the same...or he doesn't exist - the more likely answer.
It's just that simple people.
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