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Hispanic students vanish from Alabama schools

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sportage said:
This just sounds unAmerican. Most of us at one time came from outside America. Just how many native American Indians do we have here on the forums?

Illegal’s come here for a better life. Hope. And to punish their children, well, I had thought we were better than that. Guess not.

This could be handled justly and wisely. But in today’s America, hate rules the show.
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Sorry, but policy is not dictated by sympathy. By your logic we should let all of Mexico come over and have free access to all the services of an American citizen.
 
sportage said:
This just sounds unAmerican. Most of us at one time came from outside America. Just how many native American Indians do we have here on the forums?

Illegal’s come here for a better life. Hope. And to punish their children, well, I had thought we were better than that. Guess not.

This could be handled justly and wisely. But in today’s America, hate rules the show.
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LOL - Hate has nothing to do with it and the people who think hate drives this only marginalize their position.

It is about the rule of law. If you don't like the rule of law then change the law.
 
Hacp said:
Here is NY, isn't it like 13k per student? Unions ftl.
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Don't bring unions into this. AL has a teachers' union as well. This is more likely due to the difference in cost of living between AL and NY and overall higher dedication to K-12 education. Schools in AL simply don't have the types of resources that those in NY do, period. We are a low tax/low service state, and we get what we pay for. :/
 
irishScott said:
Sorry, but policy is not dictated by sympathy. By your logic we should let all of Mexico come over and have free access to all the services of an American citizen.
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His whole argument is spurious because we always had quotas and even freezes on immigration when labor economy warranted it.

What's ironic is his good hardheartedness will break the systems to help poor people once and for all something the right could never do. Try and get public schooling or welfare or food stamps in Mexico. It's shit because they can't afford it much like we are unable to with overabundance of impoverished coming in every year.


I am actually suprized hyper-right guys like spidey are not for open borders as it would utterly destroy the social welfare in this country - but I assume being brown is a larger issue.
 
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Most of the kids themselves are probably legal citizens, since they are often born here. Their parents, on the other hand.. maybe not.

I see it frequently at my job, which involves a lot of citizenship issues.
 
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Jhhnn said:
Heh. Still nothing, other than circling back around to re-assertion of your original contention, substantiated by conjecture and projection.

First you believe, then attempt to rationalize that belief using it as a conceptual framework. It's self sealing ontology. It's religion.
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Which of the facts in that article do you dispute? (As I suspected, facts wouldn't change your mind.)

Patranus said:
And how many kids does the average illegal immigrant have?

ANyways, it is a shame that Gay Davis felt the need to not appeal prop 187.
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Right. The reality is that not only that illegals don't contribute enough taxes to compensate for one of their anchor baby children, they certainly can't pay for the education of thee to six kids and the fire, police, hospital, and various other services that our first world society provides them.
 
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Infohawk said:
Which of the facts in that article do you dispute? (As I suspected, facts wouldn't change your mind.)
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I don't dispute any of the numbers- I dispute what you claim they mean, and dispute the idea that they represent a comprehensive analysis. There's more to it than the usual ravers realize, and the law of unintended consequences, as well-

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/16/business/yourmoney/16view.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/07/01/eveningnews/main20076243.shtml

Illegals are part of the underclass of American capitalism, people who are often more productive and necessary than their incomes would suggest. Clearly, their economic servitude benefits the elite, otherwise they wouldn't be here. And, just as clearly, the notion that tossing them all out would somehow serve to create jobs with the kind of wages necessary to support the vast expanse of suburbia that is America is totally absurd. You'll just end up eating Guatemalan chickens & Michoacan strawberries, if you have a job at all, and all of the industry supporting domestic production will be gone, as well.

Be careful what you wish for.
 
Jhhnn said:
I don't dispute any of the numbers- I dispute what you claim they mean, and dispute the idea that they represent a comprehensive analysis.
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You dispute that illegals are a net loss for government budgets? I haven't seen any evidence that would show they contribute enough in taxes to pay for the public services they consume. Feel free to post any if you have it.
 
Interesting way to apply the NIMBY principle. Now if Alabama would only go after all those businesses in their state that heavily rely on illegal immigrant labor to turn higher profits, the train wreck it would cause would be interesting to watch as it piles up on itself.

As if that'll ever happen though, and that scenario is pretty much the same anywhere else in the nation or we wouldn't have an illegal immigrant problem in the first place.
 
tweaker2 said:
Interesting way to apply the NIMBY principle. Now if Alabama would only go after all those businesses in their state that heavily rely on illegal immigrant labor to turn higher profits, the train wreck it would cause would be interesting to watch as it piles up on itself.

As if that'll ever happen though, and that scenario is pretty much the same anywhere else in the nation or we wouldn't have an illegal immigrant problem in the first place.
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I object to the law our state passed for other reasons than this. However, I don't think that this would be such a problem as there are plenty of unemployed around. Some counties (particularly within the black belt) even have unemployment as high as 19%. (Source: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...ku9skoxxg&sig2=y8h0KzO0zRAswVd6IkzHRw&cad=rja
)

There are plenty willing to work "under the table" as well just to feed their families or pay utilities, etc. I think that the potential impact of the loss of illegals on our farming, manufacturing, and service industries is vastly overrated.
 
Balt said:
Most of the kids themselves are probably legal citizens, since they are often born here. Their parents, on the other hand.. maybe not.

I see it frequently at my job, which involves a lot of citizenship issues.
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That law needs to change as well. Kids born on US soil by illegals should be illegal immigrants as well.
 
I find it interesting that one can be both pro-illegal immigrant and pro-union at the same time.

If illegal immigrants were building our vehicles, we'd only have to pay $5-20k for them, not $15-30k like we currently pay for Corollas, Civics, Camry, and Accords.

The same argument of allowing illegal immigrants to pick our grapes and lettuce(which we currently do) vs unionized Americans.
I don't see any reason why we have to pay some unionized auto workers $27/hr to tighten a screw using a screwdriver when we can pay an illegal immigrant $27/day to do that.
 
Infohawk said:
You dispute that illegals are a net loss for government budgets? I haven't seen any evidence that would show they contribute enough in taxes to pay for the public services they consume. Feel free to post any if you have it.
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You made the original assertion, back on page one, that tax revenues per capita would go up, and still haven't substantiated it. It's your job to substantiate it, not mine to refute it.

Nor have I asserted that the contrary would be true, merely pointed out that it's a more complex issue, with unintended consequences, than slogan raving simpletons seem to understand.

If the legislatures of backward states want to deprive their agricultural sector of inexpensive labor, become non-competitive & unproductive because they want to fan the flames of stupidity among their electorates, they apparently will. And it'll come back around to bite 'em in the ass, as we're already beginning to see.

So, uhh, rave on.
 
Jhhnn said:
You made the original assertion, back on page one, that tax revenues per capita would go up, and still haven't substantiated it. It's your job to substantiate it, not mine to refute it.

Nor have I asserted that the contrary would be true, merely pointed out that it's a more complex issue, with unintended consequences, than slogan raving simpletons seem to understand.

If the legislatures of backward states want to deprive their agricultural sector of inexpensive labor, become non-competitive & unproductive because they want to fan the flames of stupidity among their electorates, they apparently will. And it'll come back around to bite 'em in the ass, as we're already beginning to see.

So, uhh, rave on.
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You're being intellectually dishonest at this point. The facts I've linked to show that illegals are net drains on state budgets. Take the illegals away, and there will be more revenue per capita.

By the way your ridiculous suggestions that illegals benefit the economy is about as substantiated as conservatives who argue trickle-down economics.

And who is raving here? I've linked to facts. You have not. You're also the one who consistently engages in personal attacks on this forum. As I've told you before, you're very emotional about a lot of issues. It's not that interesting to discuss anything with you so I'll let you get the last word in. If someone more credible wants me to address one of your statements, I will.
 
EagleKeeper said:
It will hurt the school districts though. They receive funding based on enrollment. The type of enrollment does not matter.

It they lose 10% of students; then Federal funding could get cut by 10%. That can put teachers out on the pavement also.

Good for the taxpayers - bad for the employment numbers.
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They would be wise not to. Even with a 10% loss of students Alabama schools (at least the ones I know of) are running WAY past the capacity they have for students.
 
lothar said:
I find it interesting that one can be both pro-illegal immigrant and pro-union at the same time.

If illegal immigrants were building our vehicles, we'd only have to pay $5-20k for them, not $15-30k like we currently pay for Corollas, Civics, Camry, and Accords.

The same argument of allowing illegal immigrants to pick our grapes and lettuce(which we currently do) vs unionized Americans.
I don't see any reason why we have to pay some unionized auto workers $27/hr to tighten a screw using a screwdriver when we can pay an illegal immigrant $27/day to do that.
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How many people and how long do you think work on each car? I highly doubt it would cut 10k off the cost.
 
AyashiKaibutsu said:
How many people and how long do you think work on each car? I highly doubt it would cut 10k off the cost.
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It's probably around that, if not more if you're considering all compensation benefits and not just income. Illegals don't get 401k company matching, paid vacations, health insurance, company stock options, company paid life insurance. If they have to have health insurance like the new healthcare law requires, have them signup to the mini-med plan that McDonald offers their fast food employees. There's no need for them to have Cadillac healthcare plans like UAW union.

Even if it's only amounts to $5k less, that's still a good deal.

Unlike other people here, I don't care about illegals picking my grapes and lettuce or building my automobiles for $10/day.
If it leads to me paying lower prices on products, then so be it.
 
soccerballtux said:
I most certainly don't think we will. The only thing that sustained Rome for so long through all the corruption was the free slave labor. We don't have that, instead we give our slaves free education, food, shelter, etc. In other words we die much faster than Rome.
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Didn't slaves get food shelter and education enough to do their work?
 
MovingTarget said:
I object to the law our state passed for other reasons than this. However, I don't think that this would be such a problem as there are plenty of unemployed around. Some counties (particularly within the black belt) even have unemployment as high as 19%. (Source: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...ku9skoxxg&sig2=y8h0KzO0zRAswVd6IkzHRw&cad=rja
)

There are plenty willing to work "under the table" as well just to feed their families or pay utilities, etc. I think that the potential impact of the loss of illegals on our farming, manufacturing, and service industries is vastly overrated.
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Thanks for that info.

As an aside, I spent three weeks in Lewisburg, TN touring and observing the Faber Castell Plant when I was a production manager way back when at one of their subsidiaries. I was there learning about their manufacturing processes so as to impliment them at the plant I worked at. Their writing instrument production lines were well designed and very efficient. Some of the nicest classiest folks I know worked there.
 
Wordplay said:
That law needs to change as well. Kids born on US soil by illegals should be illegal immigrants as well.
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Agreed. To be a US citizen when you are born you should either be:

1. At least one of your parents must be a US citizen at the time of your birth

or

2. Be born in the US with at least one of your parents being a permanent resident
 
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