Hillary May Be Charged Within 60 Days

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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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The LA Times and two independent sources isn't good enough for you? The denial is strong.

Pure bullshit. The allegation in the LAT is that two anonymous people claim the FBI has called on Hillary's aides to testify to the FBI. The WP claimed that there were 147 agents investigating the case, a different thing entirely. The Politico piece disputes that.

Your cognitive filters conflate as necessary to reach pre-determined conclusions, obviously.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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Pure bullshit. The allegation in the LAT is that two anonymous people claim the FBI has called on Hillary's aides to testify to the FBI. The WP claimed that there were 147 agents investigating the case, a different thing entirely. The Politico piece disputes that.

Your cognitive filters conflate as necessary to reach pre-determined conclusions, obviously.
I'm talking about the upcoming FBI interviews with Clinton's staff, not the recent Judicial Watch FOIA ruling you previously linked to, nor the Washington Post/Politico FBI agent count dispute you referred to above. If anyone is conflating here, it's you. Pathetic.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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I'm talking about the upcoming FBI interviews with Clinton's staff, not the recent Judicial Watch FOIA ruling you previously linked to, nor the Washington Post/Politico FBI agent count dispute you referred to above. If anyone is conflating here, it's you. Pathetic.

Please. You allege that the FBI will be questioning Clinton's aides on the basis of the LAT piece linked in the Free Bonehead. The LAT claims two anonymous sources. You've offered no others.

Now you're dancing around it rather clumsily.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
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Classic doc! Make a BS claim, get called on said BS, claim he meant something else. His next move is usually to run away crying foul.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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Please. You allege that the FBI will be questioning Clinton's aides on the basis of the LAT piece linked in the Free Bonehead. The LAT claims two anonymous sources. You've offered no others.

Now you're dancing around it rather clumsily.
Anybody with two brain cells to rub together knows that credible news agencies typically require at least two different sources to verify the information being reported. The LA Times used two independent sources and broke the story. I imagine that other news agencies have or will be conducting their own investigations shortly.

And the irony here is that you previously cited a Politico piece which used just ONE anonymous source that questioned the number of FBI agents on the Clinton case that was reported by both The Washington Post and Fox who used multiple independent sources...yet you don't seem to have any problem with that. Hear what you want to hear...disregard the rest.

If anyone is dancing around clumsily, it's you. Pathetic.
 
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Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
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Please. You allege that the FBI will be questioning Clinton's aides on the basis of the LAT piece linked in the Free Bonehead. The LAT claims two anonymous sources. You've offered no others.

Now you're dancing around it rather clumsily.

Every news channel has run this story, even MSNBC. It's been discussed numerous times.

That the FBI will be interviewing Hillary and her aides is common knowledge. IIRC, the aides repeatedly mentioned are Huma Abedin and Cheryl Mills, in addition to Hillary herself.

I gather you don't watch much cable news.

Fern
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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Every news channel has run this story, even MSNBC. It's been discussed numerous times.

That the FBI will be interviewing Hillary and her aides is common knowledge. IIRC, the aides repeatedly mentioned are Huma Abedin and Cheryl Mills, in addition to Hillary herself.

I gather you don't watch much cable news.

Fern
Allow me to forecast the probable course. Everyone concerned will plead her Fifth Amendment protection against self-incrimination, and the faithful will insist that refusing to testify for fear of incriminating oneself actually proves this is nothing more than a partisan witch hunt.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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Allow me to forecast the probable course. Everyone concerned will plead her Fifth Amendment protection against self-incrimination, and the faithful will insist that refusing to testify for fear of incriminating oneself actually proves this is nothing more than a partisan witch hunt.

Refusing to testify doesn't prove anything, one way or another. No one in their right mind will talk to the FBI without immunity, whether they are guilty of anything or not.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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Refusing to testify doesn't prove anything, one way or another. No one in their right mind will talk to the FBI without immunity, whether they are guilty of anything or not.
lol Of course it doesn't. Nobody in their right mind would talk to the FBI without immunity, whether they are guilty of anything or not. Not sure why we even have an FBI, since we all know the only way they can determine anything is to first grant immunity to everyone involved. Therefore all FBI investigations are simply wastes of taxpayer dollars.

Am I doing it right?
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
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lol Of course it doesn't. Nobody in their right mind would talk to the FBI without immunity, whether they are guilty of anything or not. Not sure why we even have an FBI, since we all know the only way they can determine anything is to first grant immunity to everyone involved. Therefore all FBI investigations are simply wastes of taxpayer dollars.

Am I doing it right?

So if clinton cooperates with the FBI then that means what exactly? Let's see your circular logic on full display here.
 
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theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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lol Of course it doesn't. Nobody in their right mind would talk to the FBI without immunity, whether they are guilty of anything or not. Not sure why we even have an FBI, since we all know the only way they can determine anything is to first grant immunity to everyone involved. Therefore all FBI investigations are simply wastes of taxpayer dollars.

Am I doing it right?

"In their right mind" being the caveat. Some people do talk to cops without immunity. I call them idiots. There is nothing in it for anyone to talk to the cops. The usual if you have nothing to hide argument is complete horseshit.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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So if clinton corporates with the FBI then that means what exactly? Let's see your circular logic on full display here.
Well, according to the lefty logic put forward here, it either means she's received immunity or she's not in her right mind. My own logic would be to assume that she knows she's done nothing for which practically speaking, Obama's FBI will be willing to charge the presumptive Democrat nominee AND his own Secretary of State. Remember though, I'm one of those who believe there is no chance that Obama's Justice Department will ever charge her with anything, and virtually no chance that Trump's or Cruz' Justice Department would ever charge her with anything. Unless she's done something really, really egregious AND it comes out before she's locked up the nomination, she has nothing to risk by cooperating.

Her aides, on the other hand, might have some very slight worry, as did Pagliano, that Justice might choose to make an example out of Hillary by charging someone below her. Personally I don't see that happening either, but I can understand the worry. If I had been blithely passing around classified documents on a non-secured, private server, I wouldn't want to cooperate either. Of course, Hillary's (or anyone's) political convenience wouldn't matter enough to me to violate the law, even if I thought that law was outdated and unworkable, so it would never be an issue with me.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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"In their right mind" being the caveat. Some people do talk to cops without immunity. I call them idiots. There is nothing in it for anyone to talk to the cops. The usual if you have nothing to hide argument is complete horseshit.
So equitable law and societal order mean nothing to you?
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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So, regardless of what happens, you will be convinced that Hillary broke the law, and if she isn't charged it's because Obama is covering for her. Convenient for you, but at the same time, your opinion is pretty useless since it's not data dependent, just a belief you have.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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So equitable law and societal order mean nothing to you?

Equitable law? You mean where cops can lie to you all they want with impunity, but you can go to jail if you mis-remember something? Yeah, that means nothing to me. Societal order is where I endanger my freedom to supposedly help "society" as represented by a career FBI agent looking to fill some case quota? Yeah, that can go F itself too. If "society" wants my help with "order," it will have to immunize me first.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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So, regardless of what happens, you will be convinced that Hillary broke the law, and if she isn't charged it's because Obama is covering for her. Convenient for you, but at the same time, your opinion is pretty useless since it's not data dependent, just a belief you have.
Oh, it's without doubt that she broke the law; we already know enough to confirm that in spades. The only way she could possibly have not broken the law would be to handle nothing that is deemed classified her entire time as SecState, and we've already learned that (1) there were emails that were classified from Day One due to their nature, and (2) she handled them in ways that, even were she the innocent victim in receiving them, would be violations of the law. There are two reasons why she won't be charged. First, it's politically inconvenient, both to Obama and to the Republicans. Maybe Obama's justice party could fight the Republicans, but they aren't going to embarrass Obama by indicting his Secretary of State, at least not unless she is shown to have done something really egregious. Same with the Pubbies, if they capture the White House; they don't want to live by the rules that would establish, nor have their side distracted by a similar investigation which in all fairness, would be required. If we hold one party to the actual law, then morally we must also hold the other party to the law. Powell did much the same thing, albeit with a server over which he had no actual physical control. It would still be a violation of the law, just the same. Same for the Bushies, who did on 9 what Hillary did on 11 with their political servers. A little bit has already slipped about that, enough to cause a massive investigation were Hillary to be indicted.

Second, it's impractical. To indict Hillary for breaking the law requires holding everyone else to that law, yet it isn't very convenient for the operation of government. Ideally, we would change the law and hold everyone accountable for operating inside the constraints of the law as it exists at that moment. Practically speaking, the federal government has struggled to maintain a system for securely emailing classified and/or sensitive documents. If the FBI held Mrs. Clinton strictly accountable for her violations of the law, ethically we have to go back and prosecute other officials for those same violations, but much more importantly, we have to have an operable system in place to avoid similar violations. We do not have such a system.

I have absolutely no doubt that Mrs. Clinton hosted her own server for the very reasons we've already seen: it gave her total control over accountability. She could (and did) delete and edit official business emails at her own discretion. But to prosecute her for mishandling classified documents - for which hosting her own server and giving out copies is a SECOND violation, not the first which is the unsecured emailing itself - requires too much that is impractical and unpalatable to both sides of the aisle. Even if we see a President Cruz or Trump, it's never going to happen. Please note that it isn't just Obama covering for her; the precedent set would affect both parties equally. Hillary is the worst at the moment, but that record exists to be broken, probably by a Republican.

Equitable law? You mean where cops can lie to you all they want with impunity, but you can go to jail if you mis-remember something? Yeah, that means nothing to me. Societal order is where I endanger my freedom to supposedly help "society" as represented by a career FBI agent looking to fill some case quota? Yeah, that can go F itself too.
Thank you for your honesty.
 
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theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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Oh, it's without doubt that she broke the law; we already know enough to confirm that in spades. The only way she could possibly have not broken the law would be to handle nothing that is deemed classified her entire time as SecState, and we've already learned that (1) there were emails that were classified from Day One due to their nature, and (2) she handled them in ways that, even were she the innocent victim in receiving them, would be violations of the law. There are two reasons why she won't be charged. First, it's politically inconvenient, both to Obama and to the Republicans. Maybe Obama's justice party could fight the Republicans, but they aren't going to embarrass Obama by indicting his Secretary of State, at least not unless she is shown to have done something really egregious. Same with the Pubbies, if they capture the White House; they don't want to live by the rules that would establish, nor have their side distracted by a similar investigation which in all fairness, would be required. If we hold one party to the actual law, then morally we must also hold the other party to the law. Powell did much the same thing, albeit with a server over which he had no actual physical control. It would still be a violation of the law, just the same. Same for the Bushies, who did on 9 what Hillary did on 11 with their political servers. A little bit has already slipped about that, enough to cause a massive investigation were Hillary to be indicted.

Second, it's impractical. To indict Hillary for breaking the law requires holding everyone else to that law, yet it isn't very convenient for the operation of government. Ideally, we would change the law and hold everyone accountable for operating inside the constraints of the law as it exists at that moment. Practically speaking, the federal government has struggled to maintain a system for securely emailing classified and/or sensitive documents. If the FBI held Mrs. Clinton strictly accountable for her violations of the law, ethically we have to go back and prosecute other officials for those same violations, but much more importantly, we have to have an operable system in place to avoid similar violations. We do not have such a system.

I have absolutely no doubt that Mrs. Clinton hosted her own server for the very reasons we've already seen: it gave her total control over accountability. She could (and did) delete and edit official business emails at her own discretion. But to prosecute her for mishandling classified documents - for which hosting her own server and giving out copies is a SECOND violation, not the first which is the unsecured emailing itself - requires too much that is impractical and unpalatable to both sides of the aisle. Even if we see a President Cruz or Trump, it's never going to happen. Please note that it isn't just Obama covering for her; the precedent set would affect both parties equally. Hillary is the worst at the moment, but that record exists to be broken, probably by a Republican.


Thank you for your honesty.

Thank you for yours. Sounds like you have already tried and convicted Hillary, in your head.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
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"In their right mind" being the caveat. Some people do talk to cops without immunity. I call them idiots. There is nothing in it for anyone to talk to the cops. The usual if you have nothing to hide argument is complete horseshit.

"I shot the clerk" (inferred question)

Yeah, things along those lines.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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I had to google that reference, but yep.

Find me one defense lawyer who will say you should talk to the cops without an immunity deal if you think you are innocent.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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Thank you for yours. Sounds like you have already tried and convicted Hillary, in your head.
I've seen enough to know she's guilty, and I've seen enough to believe she should not be convicted or indicted, assuming there is nothing truly egregious that hasn't come to light. (Which I consider unlikely; she isn't stupid, and there are plenty of career people with access to the case who are Republicans or Berners and would leak anything truly egregious.)

How's that for honesty?
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,724
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I've seen enough to know she's guilty, and I've seen enough to believe she should not be convicted or indicted, assuming there is nothing truly egregious that hasn't come to light. (Which I consider unlikely; she isn't stupid, and there are plenty of career people with access to the case who are Republicans or Berners and would leak anything truly egregious.)

How's that for honesty?

Yep! Guilty! You just don't know what's she's guilty of. More accurately; you think you know what she's guilty of.

I'd explain it to you why what she did wasn't wrong or illegal but I as well as others have already explained it to you in other threads, multiple times and you still make the claim.


Other than that though, I agree with the rest of your post.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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I've seen enough to know she's guilty, and I've seen enough to believe she should not be convicted or indicted, assuming there is nothing truly egregious that hasn't come to light. (Which I consider unlikely; she isn't stupid, and there are plenty of career people with access to the case who are Republicans or Berners and would leak anything truly egregious.)

How's that for honesty?

That's fine, but in this country, one is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, not once you have "seen enough."
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
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Oh, it's without doubt that she broke the law; we already know enough to confirm that in spades.

Speculation as fact in the very first sentence, followed by the usual witch doctor dance around the fire with incantations & rattle shaking.

Last I checked, who broke the law is something we leave for juries to decide.