High temps with water cooling

[legoman666]

Hi. I am a long time overclocker but I am perplexed by this problem. I've been water cooling my CPU's since my 2500+ Barton, so I have quite a bit of experience.

My setup:
G0 Q6600 @ stock (crappy 1.3v VID)
2x2gb 1000mhz
Gigabyte GA-X38-DS4
2x HD3870

Watercooling setup:
DangerDen TDX on the Q6600
2xEK full cover water blocked on the 3870's
3x120mm Black Ice Xtreme radiator
Eheim 1250 water pump.

My problem: TEMPS. The temps on the 3870's are great; 38C Idle, 45C load. The Q6600, on the other hand, is not so good. Idles at around 38-40C and load hits 65C. This is unacceptable at stock speeds. I've reseated the block about 3 times and made sure it's extra tight. I've gotten the chip up to 3.0ghz but it is not stable and hits ~72C.

I'm about to throw in the towel and buy a nice air cooler and only WC the two GPU's. Any ideas? I can post more info if needed.

 

[Idontcare]

Yikes, that is worse than air-cooling. The high'ish VID is not the cause of that.

Aigomorla is your man for asking these questions, I have no experience with watercooling.

But simple question I can ask is did you get a Intel quad optimized heatsink for the water rig? I hear it is important that the "flow" of water thru the CPU heatsink be optimized for quads, or so I have seen many people write in the forums.

 

[legoman666]

No, I have my old TDX (been using it for.... 3 years?). DangerDen released the TDX-MC which is supposed to improve temps for Dual/Quad core chips. But I read a few reviews about it and it looks like I'd only see about a ~5C reduction in temps. I've considered buying it, but for the $60, I could just get a nice air cooler and be done with it. (besides, I don't even think that will reduce my temps to acceptable levels.)

 

[Don66]

This waterblock keeps my QX6700 pretty cool @ 3.3GHz 29/29/24/26 C'

But what other parts are you using for your watercooling kit?

 

[Markfw]

I wonder if something is up with the latest Q6600's. Mine is 1.312, and its hot, and I can;t get it over 3 ghz.... A Pattern ???

 

[legoman666]

Originally posted by: Don66
This waterblock keeps my QX6700 pretty cool @ 3.3GHz 29/29/24/26 C'

But what other parts are you using for your watercooling kit?

DangerDen TDX: http://www.dangerden.com/store...uctid=21&cat=16&page=1
X-Flow BIX III: http://www.dangerden.com/store...ctid=200&cat=73&page=1
Eheim 1250 Pump: http://www.dangerden.com/store...uctid=38&cat=26&page=1
EK-FC3870: http://www.performance-pcs.com...=240&products_id=22870 <-2 of those
A Homemade Res
and tygon 1/2" ID tubing

 

[legoman666]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
I wonder if something is up with the latest Q6600's. Mine is 1.312, and its hot, and I can;t get it over 3 ghz.... A Pattern ???

When/where did you get yours? I ordered mine from newegg on 1/20/2008. It is a G0 though...

 

[aigomorla]

its the 2hd's in the loop with your qx.

there not as bad as a GTX alone, but paired up , it can get quite hot.

also, your tdx isnt the best of blocks, and im starting to think it might be more of a contact problem.

do you have a t-line or a res?

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: legoman666

Originally posted by: Markfw900
I wonder if something is up with the latest Q6600's. Mine is 1.312, and its hot, and I can;t get it over 3 ghz.... A Pattern ???

When/where did you get yours? I ordered mine from newegg on 1/20/2008. It is a G0 though...

I got mine from clubit about a week ago. All my other G0's are much better than this one, I was very disappointed. See my thread on VID, we are at the bottom of the barrel in quality or speed or whatever you want to call it.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
I wonder if something is up with the latest Q6600's. Mine is 1.312, and its hot, and I can;t get it over 3 ghz.... A Pattern ???

I'd be more suspicious as to which fab your quads underlying conroes were fabbed in.

Each fab will have a different "sweet spot" as the product cycle matures within the fab.

As Intel has 4 fabs pumping out 65nm Core2 chips (to my knowledge, could be wrong) you are guaranteed one of those fabs is putting out some pretty cherry chips (low Vcore/GHz shmoo's) and one of them is the dog of the pack. It's inevitable.

So if the fab that is putting out the sweet stuff is one of the fabs having 65nm volume ramped down in order to ramp up the 45nm chips, then you can expect your odds to be rising for getting a quad built from the poorer quality stuff (still in spec mind you, just not "golden" like we got spoilt by).

At Texas Instrument when we still had Kilby fab open (it closed Dec 07) we made SUN sparc chips in two fabs, and the speedbins versus shmoo plots heavily favored one fab over the other. All still in spec, but for overclockers who are trying to live in that edge of the envelope called "engineering margin" by the manufacturers there is certainly less margin from chips from some fabs versus others.

 

[v8envy]

That may explain why my X3210 is such a turd too. Granted, I'm not using high quality OCing parts like Markfw but I ran into the exact same problem. G0 stepping, 1.3v-ish VID, pretty hot, 2998mhz is all it's got. Bought it earlier this year from clubit (when it dipped to $215), so february-ish.

 

[legoman666]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
its the 2hd's in the loop with your qx.

there not as bad as a GTX alone, but paired up , it can get quite hot.

also, your tdx isnt the best of blocks, and im starting to think it might be more of a contact problem.

do you have a t-line or a res?

I have a rez. I tried reseating the block several times and making sure it was very tight, but my temps never decreased more than 2-3C.

I don't think it's the 2 3870's either. Prior to this setup, I had a hd3870, an x1800xt, and a AMD 3800+ X2 @ 2.7 (89w TDP @ stock 2.0ghz, which is hotter than a Q6600) all in the same loop with only 2 1x120mm radiators and my temps were lower.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: legoman666

Originally posted by: aigomorla
its the 2hd's in the loop with your qx.

there not as bad as a GTX alone, but paired up , it can get quite hot.

also, your tdx isnt the best of blocks, and im starting to think it might be more of a contact problem.

do you have a t-line or a res?

I have a rez. I tried reseating the block several times and making sure it was very tight, but my temps never decreased more than 2-3C.

I don't think it's the 2 3870's either. Prior to this setup, I had a hd3870, an x1800xt, and a AMD 3800+ X2 @ 2.7 (89w TDP @ stock 2.0ghz, which is hotter than a Q6600) all in the same loop with only 2 1x120mm radiators and my temps were lower.

Okey this will make things a lot easier.

I need you to pull out a thermometer. The kind you put in your mouth when your sick. Doesnt need to be digital, i prefer the good ol mercury ones.

Place it in front of your radiator intake and take a ambient messurement. This variable shouldnt change very much unless you open the window or turn the AC on.

Now after you taken your ambient, i need you to drop the thermo in your res, dont lose it inside, but hold it in the water and take a coolant messurement. I need the coolant temps from idle, and then a 20min load if at all possible.

After youve done that, i can tell you if its a contact problem or a eq problem.

If your coolant temp at load is like 2-3C off comapred to room temp, then you got a contact problem. Not enough contact on your cpu block, which leads me to think your IHS is terribly not flat.

If your coolant vs ambient temp is very high, like more then 10C, your stressing your system, and you need to split the loop up.

The idle and load test shows me how your system handles at stress and non stress. Idealy your coolant delta shouldnt be higher then 5-7C.

 

[legoman666]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Originally posted by: legoman666

Originally posted by: aigomorla
its the 2hd's in the loop with your qx.

there not as bad as a GTX alone, but paired up , it can get quite hot.

also, your tdx isnt the best of blocks, and im starting to think it might be more of a contact problem.

do you have a t-line or a res?

I have a rez. I tried reseating the block several times and making sure it was very tight, but my temps never decreased more than 2-3C.

I don't think it's the 2 3870's either. Prior to this setup, I had a hd3870, an x1800xt, and a AMD 3800+ X2 @ 2.7 (89w TDP @ stock 2.0ghz, which is hotter than a Q6600) all in the same loop with only 2 1x120mm radiators and my temps were lower.

Okey this will make things a lot easier.

I need you to pull out a thermometer. The kind you put in your mouth when your sick. Doesnt need to be digital, i prefer the good ol mercury ones.

Place it in front of your radiator intake and take a ambient messurement. This variable shouldnt change very much unless you open the window or turn the AC on.

Now after you taken your ambient, i need you to drop the thermo in your res, dont lose it inside, but hold it in the water and take a coolant messurement. I need the coolant temps from idle, and then a 20min load if at all possible.

After youve done that, i can tell you if its a contact problem or a eq problem.

If your coolant temp at load is like 2-3C off comapred to room temp, then you got a contact problem. Not enough contact on your cpu block, which leads me to think your IHS is terribly not flat.

If your coolant vs ambient temp is very high, like more then 10C, your stressing your system, and you need to split the loop up.

The idle and load test shows me how your system handles at stress and non stress. Idealy your coolant delta shouldnt be higher then 5-7C.

Will do once I get home. However, I am having problems booting right now (mobo/ram troubles for another thread) so maybe not.

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: v8envy
That may explain why my X3210 is such a turd too. Granted, I'm not using high quality OCing parts like Markfw but I ran into the exact same problem. G0 stepping, 1.3v-ish VID, pretty hot, 2998mhz is all it's got. Bought it earlier this year from clubit (when it dipped to $215), so february-ish.

My B3 X3210 won't do over 2800 !

Edit: I think I should update my sig......

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: legoman666


Will do once I get home. However, I am having problems booting right now (mobo/ram troubles for another thread) so maybe not.

your having problems booting?

Oh boy, i dont think the problem is your cooling then. Quite possibly a bad motherboard or bad cpu giving wrong temps.

Once you get the booting issue worked out, post this thread again in cases and cooling.

 

[Acanthus]

It sounds like youre having some kind of bad part issue since youve reseated the block.

On a side note the Apogee GTX is supposed to be the best block for quads the last time i checked (about a month ago).

 

[EarthwormJim]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
It sounds like youre having some kind of bad part issue since youve reseated the block.

On a side note the Apogee GTX is supposed to be the best block for quads the last time i checked (about a month ago).

Fuzion is a better block imo (and I have the Apogee GTX). Plus the plated aluminum on the GTX was not a wise move on Swiftech's part.

 

[legoman666]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Originally posted by: legoman666


Will do once I get home. However, I am having problems booting right now (mobo/ram troubles for another thread) so maybe not.

your having problems booting?

Oh boy, i dont think the problem is your cooling then. Quite possibly a bad motherboard or bad cpu giving wrong temps.

Once you get the booting issue worked out, post this thread again in cases and cooling.

Recently it won't reboot properly, but it runs 100% fine once it actually does reboot. It gets stuck while detecting RAM. I still haven't figured out what the problem is, but turning the comp off for like.... 16-18 hours usually fixes it. IE:

I rebooted last night at 10pm because I installed Vista SP1.
Screen blanks, comes back, POST screen comes up, tells me my CPU speed/multiplier/type.
Stops at scanning memory.
I tried resetting bios, leaving the comp off for a 6 hours (overnight), moving the RAM to different slots, trying just 1 stick of RAM at a time in various slots, nothing works.
I get home from work, and it fires right up. I'm thinking bad mobo. Like I said, that's for a different thread

Anyway, back to the temps:
Idle temps
CPU: 36 37 33 39
Water: 24.8C
Rad air intake: 21.9C

Load temps
CPU: 63 62 58 63
Water: 27.4C
Rad air intake: 22.3
Rad air exhaust: 25.6C

Ambient: 20.9C

 

[legoman666]

Originally posted by: EarthwormJim

Originally posted by: Acanthus
It sounds like youre having some kind of bad part issue since youve reseated the block.

On a side note the Apogee GTX is supposed to be the best block for quads the last time i checked (about a month ago).

Fuzion is a better block imo (and I have the Apogee GTX). Plus the plated aluminum on the GTX was not a wise move on Swiftech's part.

I'll take a look into them. Maybe I just need a new block.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: EarthwormJim

Originally posted by: Acanthus
It sounds like youre having some kind of bad part issue since youve reseated the block.

On a side note the Apogee GTX is supposed to be the best block for quads the last time i checked (about a month ago).

Fuzion is a better block imo (and I have the Apogee GTX). Plus the plated aluminum on the GTX was not a wise move on Swiftech's part.

I use anti corrosive additives anyway, but yes its arguable that Fuzion is as good

 

[Markfw]

If you want to focus on the cooling solution, I can move this to cases and cooling, not overclocking.

 

[ArchAngel777]

This is something we have gone over many times. You cannot directly compare a same chip, model, and stepping to another one of the same. In fact, this was addressed in AT's article on the newer chips, which included C2D/C2Q line. In other words, the temperatures are not known for sure, because the DTS for each chip can vary.

To make the long story short, without getting an indepentent probe installed, you really don't know that your chip is running as hot as reported.

 

[legoman666]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
This is something we have gone over many times. You cannot directly compare a same chip, model, and stepping to another one of the same. In fact, this was addressed in AT's article on the newer chips, which included C2D/C2Q line. In other words, the temperatures are not known for sure, because the DTS for each chip can vary.

To make the long story short, without getting an indepentent probe installed, you really don't know that your chip is running as hot as reported.

it has to be running hot because I can't even get it over 3ghz.

Originally posted by: Markfw900
If you want to focus on the cooling solution, I can move this to cases and cooling, not overclocking.

that's fine

Moving !!!! And if you need OC help, come back here and start a thread. The people in each forum are best at tackling these issues iindependently !

Markfw900 Anandtech Moderator.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: legoman666

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
This is something we have gone over many times. You cannot directly compare a same chip, model, and stepping to another one of the same. In fact, this was addressed in AT's article on the newer chips, which included C2D/C2Q line. In other words, the temperatures are not known for sure, because the DTS for each chip can vary.

To make the long story short, without getting an indepentent probe installed, you really don't know that your chip is running as hot as reported.

it has to be running hot because I can't even get it over 3ghz.

That doesn't mandate that type of conclusion. That could be insufficient voltage (most likely), poor ram, bum chip for overclocking, etc... Heat is just one issue that can cause instability.