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High gas prices are great... why not $5-20 per gallon?

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Originally posted by: OS
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
I think the US (if not the world) is on the edge of economic collapse as it is, we don't need another Great Depression.

All economies have a certain amount of inertia. After that changes happen. In this case very bad things.

Consider you for example in a hypothetical situation. Suppose you are in a family who plans to put you through college. Oops. Well not now.

Why?

Well, inflation has just kicked in. You see, not only do cars run on oil, but does industry. Costs of materials, energy, transportation etc. have just gone up. Way up. Dad's company is now forced to cut, and the only option is people.

Welcome to unemployment. Well, that's not so bad right? Well, all those costs of doing business get passed to individuals in the form of inflation. Everything, and I mean everything costs more now.

That home your parents bought that has had a nice increase in value? Well it did, but inflation means people aren't going to buy as much, especially when coupled with rising unemployment.

So the housing market collapses. The value of that home is gone. Worse, it's lower that it was. Negative equity.

Oh, interests rates are skyrocketing too.

People buy even less. Now there are more layoffs, more unemployment.

So what part of the above scenario seems good to you?

None to me.

If you don't already, you should read Stephen Roach at Morgan Stanley weekly commentary

Basically, global economic inbalances are at all time, unprecedented highs. Inflated asset values, trade deficit, national debt, over extended consumers. Savings rate of american individuals is now actually below zero, they spend more than they earn. Spending fueled by overleveraged, inflated home values instead of income growth.

Subzero saving consumers are completely unequipped to deal with sudden jumps in energy prices and general inflation. They have no more unused income to deal with increases in cost. The global economy is US driven, and the US economy is american consumer driven. If energy prices go up, and home values collapse, it will stall the US economy, and economic damage will be felt around the world.

It's too soon to tell the true economic damage of Katrina, but it might be the event that triggers the next big recession. Of course it's bad to wish it upon everyone, but at the same time, anyone who reads economic news can't say they didn't see it coming. The end of the easy credit, easy motoring, easy money american lifestyle may be around the corner.


Well, they did see the big hurricane coming. Everyone had three day's worth of advance notice and warning. Still, emergency preperation was non-existant. No leadership to embrace problem and ready the emergency crews to resolve the massive damage.

In a way though, its similar to the housing market, consumer debt/spending, and so forth. You know that the sh^t is going to hit the fan, but then you stand there and smell it anyway. It's a human nature problem; and is seen in a lot of Americans - like myself.
 
Originally posted by: CocoGdog
It'll finally get everyone to think about alternative energy sources and conservation. Or make some royal Saudi family even richer....

I mean, why's flat panel lcd getting cheaper every day, and an Ipod thing run for over 40 hours, but we still need fossil fuels? Where's the priority for US engineers?

Ipods are made from fossil fuel. We will always need some.

edit: beaten
 
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: MicroChrome
Havent you heard?

All our engineers are being outsourced...

Priority? The only priority we have is to see who can make the biggest gas guzzler out there.

Where are the cars that get 45-65MPG? I mean american cars?

look around, there are models from Ford.

the Escape Hybrid has a good fuel economy for example
Most people don't drive in a manner to maximize fuel savings. Even a Ford partisan would admit the Escape Hybrid isn't even in the ballpark of 45-65mpg. It's substantially better than comparable vehicles, though.

In the UK/Europe you can get diesels which will get 45mpg (family size 5 dors saloon cars) under "normal use" (ie: commuting etc) without a problem, and that's in real world conditions, not what the mfr gives as the supposed economy specs for the car.
In US gallons it might be a bit less, but it's still above the 40's, and it's not even a hybrid.
 
Originally posted by: wchou
Originally posted by: catnap1972
Originally posted by: joshw10
alternatives will be developed when it's too late

QFT

I smell a troll. :disgust:

Then take a bath!

joshw10 is absolutely right...we won't put any real effort into alternatives until either the price of fossil fuel is already well above the reach of everyone but the rich, or until it's just about run out--THEN we'll decide "Hey, maybe it's time to do something!".

The Republicans want to all but abandon alternative fuel research in their "How the hell are we going to pay for Katrina/Rita" bill. If that doesn't tell you who they're REALLY working for (hint, NOT YOU), you're not paying attention.
 
Oil is a great market, lots of money there. It will not be abandoned for enviromental reasons. Although the prices of gas are high, most people can still afford them.

I don't believe it is a matter of engineering capabilities, but one of revenue!
 
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: MicroChrome
Havent you heard?

All our engineers are being outsourced...

Priority? The only priority we have is to see who can make the biggest gas guzzler out there.

Where are the cars that get 45-65MPG? I mean american cars?

look around, there are models from Ford.

the Escape Hybrid has a good fuel economy for example

It has a Toyaota Hybrid engine, lol.

 
You guys just love misery and hopelessness. Get a grip on life! Gloom and doom must be part of the Libral Philosophy. I heard the same type of tired baloney about Y2K. The World will find a way to keep going.
 
Originally posted by: Lonyo
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: MicroChrome
Havent you heard?

All our engineers are being outsourced...

Priority? The only priority we have is to see who can make the biggest gas guzzler out there.

Where are the cars that get 45-65MPG? I mean american cars?

look around, there are models from Ford.

the Escape Hybrid has a good fuel economy for example
Most people don't drive in a manner to maximize fuel savings. Even a Ford partisan would admit the Escape Hybrid isn't even in the ballpark of 45-65mpg. It's substantially better than comparable vehicles, though.

In the UK/Europe you can get diesels which will get 45mpg (family size 5 dors saloon cars) under "normal use" (ie: commuting etc) without a problem, and that's in real world conditions, not what the mfr gives as the supposed economy specs for the car.
In US gallons it might be a bit less, but it's still above the 40's, and it's not even a hybrid.


1. the epa basically keeps diesels off the road because of the particulate matter polution.
2. IT is the epa that sets the mpg tests for the cars, not the car makers.
 
9-24-2005 "The public shifted and showed there's no too much tolerance for gasoline prices above $3."

Tom Kloza, chief analyst of the Oil Price Information Service, said Friday that the one-two punch of hurricanes Katrina and Rita could spell higher prices for the entire country ? and wider spread shortages ? if more than 500,000 barrels of Texas refining capacity is knocked out for a substantial amount of time.

Some 880,000 barrels of capacity remained shut down in Louisiana from damage sustained by Hurricane Katrina.

 
At a certain point it becomes less expensive to use biofuels than fossil fuels. Maybe more research should be put into high oil yield GE crops. European countries already use a certain percentage of biodiesel.

Obviously diesel is used for a lot of shipping and a large percentage could be potentially made up by biodiesel.
What company is likely to invest heavily in that kind of technology though? In a few months the price of oil could be back down to $30 a barrel. Where's the investment returns then?

Of course the higher the price of fossil fuels, the more viable biofuels become. Some countries have already tried producing cars that run on ethanol. The production of ethanol had to be subsidised by the government when oil prices dropped though, otherwise it became to expensive to run the vehicles.
 
Originally posted by: Lonyo
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: MicroChrome
Havent you heard?

All our engineers are being outsourced...

Priority? The only priority we have is to see who can make the biggest gas guzzler out there.

Where are the cars that get 45-65MPG? I mean american cars?

look around, there are models from Ford.

the Escape Hybrid has a good fuel economy for example
Most people don't drive in a manner to maximize fuel savings. Even a Ford partisan would admit the Escape Hybrid isn't even in the ballpark of 45-65mpg. It's substantially better than comparable vehicles, though.

In the UK/Europe you can get diesels which will get 45mpg (family size 5 dors saloon cars) under "normal use" (ie: commuting etc) without a problem, and that's in real world conditions, not what the mfr gives as the supposed economy specs for the car.
In US gallons it might be a bit less, but it's still above the 40's, and it's not even a hybrid.
Roughly 3.8/4.5 * 45 = ~38MPG (in American gallons)
 
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: MicroChrome
Havent you heard?

All our engineers are being outsourced...

Priority? The only priority we have is to see who can make the biggest gas guzzler out there.

Where are the cars that get 45-65MPG? I mean american cars?

look around, there are models from Ford.

the Escape Hybrid has a good fuel economy for example

"Good fuel economy?" Youre really not very smart are you old man. An average of 34 MPG for a 4 cylinder is more than my 28 MPG tubo compact (with more than 50 more bhp, better handling, better looks, better driving fun, better everything...see sig). Face it, you an your ilk NEED big cars--to feel safe, from terra. Fortunately for the environment (and future generations) not everyone thinks like you and your ilk.
 
why not $5-20 per gallon?
I don't claim psychic powers... but I'd bet a year's salary that's exactly what Bush and Cheney are thinking. Well, Cheney at any rate... Bush is probably thinking something like "Them dang shoes, how can anyone 'spect me to tie em? So confusin', all them laces an' what-not".
 
Originally posted by: RBachman
why not $5-20 per gallon?
I don't claim psychic powers... but I'd bet a year's salary that's exactly what Bush and Cheney are thinking. Well, Cheney at any rate... Bush is probably thinking something like "Them dang shoes, how can anyone 'spect me to tie em? So confusin', all them laces an' what-not".

Ok....any basis for that statement? I thought not.

-Kevin
 
The reason there isn't a mad rush to develop alternative energy because the cost of the alternative would be higher than oil. No company wants to spend R&D money on a technology nobody would use.

Solar power is available today. Is your house solar powered? Probably not. Why not? Extremely expensive and the up front cost doesn't justify the long term savings.
 
Originally posted by: dirtboy
The reason there isn't a mad rush to develop alternative energy because the cost of the alternative would be higher than oil.

No company wants to spend R&D money on a technology nobody would use.

Nobody wants to drive??? 😕
 
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