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High gas prices are great... why not $5-20 per gallon?

C

CocoGdog

Senior member
It'll finally get everyone to think about alternative energy sources and conservation. Or make some royal Saudi family even richer....

I mean, why's flat panel lcd getting cheaper every day, and an Ipod thing run for over 40 hours, but we still need fossil fuels? Where's the priority for US engineers?
 
Like I been saying USA is very ignorent. For EX Katrina The usa only takes affirmitive at the last Second. So until we ran out or the price is 10 a gallon they are going to do more research and more funding for those engineers
 
Havent you heard?

All our engineers are being outsourced...

Priority? The only priority we have is to see who can make the biggest gas guzzler out there.

Where are the cars that get 45-65MPG? I mean american cars?

 
Originally posted by: MicroChrome
Havent you heard?

All our engineers are being outsourced...

Priority? The only priority we have is to see who can make the biggest gas guzzler out there.

Where are the cars that get 45-65MPG? I mean american cars?
Click to expand...

look around, there are models from Ford.

the Escape Hybrid has a good fuel economy for example
 
Yeah, but guess what. There are 2 year waiting lists to get that hybrid. Same goes for the Prius and the Accord hybrid. Brign over the Smart Car!!!
 
Originally posted by: CocoGdog
It'll finally get everyone to think about alternative energy sources and conservation. Or make some royal Saudi family even richer....

I mean, why's flat panel lcd getting cheaper every day, and an Ipod thing run for over 40 hours, but we still need fossil fuels? Where's the priority for US engineers?
Click to expand...

Wow. When did they engineer a flat panel or an Ipod that could be manufactured without fossil fuels? Oh, that's right, they didn't. They both made out of plastic, a fossil fuel derivative, manufactured using electricity generated primarily from fossil fuels, and delivered to consumers on ships and trucks run on fossil fuels, and sold in stores lit by fossil fuels.

You think oil is just gas for your car? :roll:

The idiots are just comin' out of the woodwork, I swear...
 
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: CocoGdog
It'll finally get everyone to think about alternative energy sources and conservation. Or make some royal Saudi family even richer....

I mean, why's flat panel lcd getting cheaper every day, and an Ipod thing run for over 40 hours, but we still need fossil fuels? Where's the priority for US engineers?
Click to expand...

Wow. When did they engineer a flat panel or an Ipod that could be manufactured without fossil fuels? Oh, that's right, they didn't. They both made out of plastic, a fossil fuel derivative, manufactured using electricity generated primarily from fossil fuels, and delivered to consumers on ships and trucks run on fossil fuels, and sold in stores lit by fossil fuels.

You think oil is just gas for your car? :roll:

The idiots are just comin' out of the woodwork, I swear...
Click to expand...

Maybe idiots were here all along... This is OT/P&N - chill.

 
gradual changes to energy prices the economy/market can adjust to. But if prices suddenly shot up, the economy would basically be paralyzed. Not good for anyone.

 
Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
1 million hybrids save ~50,000 barrels a day. About .0025% of US consumption.
Click to expand...

Doubt that. Im sure you didnt consider the fact that a barrel of oil is not 100% gasoline (duh) into your numbers. And anyway it adds up. With those numbers you save 18 million barrels a year...
 
If gasoline prices skyrocket in conjunction with skyrocketing oil barrel prices, then we might as well spend money on our own oil shale infrastructure while also developing alternative fuels.
 
Originally posted by: Kalbi
If oil goes to $20 we might as well invade Middle East and steal it.
Click to expand...
...and everyone is complaining that the U.S. isn't taking initiative! 😀
 
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: MicroChrome
Havent you heard?

All our engineers are being outsourced...

Priority? The only priority we have is to see who can make the biggest gas guzzler out there.

Where are the cars that get 45-65MPG? I mean american cars?
Click to expand...

look around, there are models from Ford.

the Escape Hybrid has a good fuel economy for example
Click to expand...
Most people don't drive in a manner to maximize fuel savings. Even a Ford partisan would admit the Escape Hybrid isn't even in the ballpark of 45-65mpg. It's substantially better than comparable vehicles, though.

On a positive note, it may prompt Congress to revisit tax credits for SUVs and other fuel inefficient vehicles. Even those morons must see the idiocy in subsidizing such behavior.
 
I think the US (if not the world) is on the edge of economic collapse as it is, we don't need another Great Depression.

All economies have a certain amount of inertia. After that changes happen. In this case very bad things.

Consider you for example in a hypothetical situation. Suppose you are in a family who plans to put you through college. Oops. Well not now.

Why?

Well, inflation has just kicked in. You see, not only do cars run on oil, but does industry. Costs of materials, energy, transportation etc. have just gone up. Way up. Dad's company is now forced to cut, and the only option is people.

Welcome to unemployment. Well, that's not so bad right? Well, all those costs of doing business get passed to individuals in the form of inflation. Everything, and I mean everything costs more now.

That home your parents bought that has had a nice increase in value? Well it did, but inflation means people aren't going to buy as much, especially when coupled with rising unemployment.

So the housing market collapses. The value of that home is gone. Worse, it's lower that it was. Negative equity.

Oh, interests rates are skyrocketing too.

People buy even less. Now there are more layoffs, more unemployment.

So what part of the above scenario seems good to you?

None to me.
 
It's good that gas prices are finally rising, as they've been artificially low for a long time. As for the priorities of engineers, they come down to them from corporate. Investors only direct the engineers to work on alternative fuels and efficiency if they see a market for it, and they won't percieve much of a market for it until oil prices have been high enough long enough, and gas prices are high enough long enough. $5/gallon isn't high enough, they'll dismiss that as temporary. When prices hit $10/gallon then auto makers will begin to market more efficient vehicles, and more gas stations will consider selling biodiesel and e85. Alternatively, if a slowly increasing long term gas tax were passed then such investments could occur in advance of the rise in prices.
 
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
I think the US (if not the world) is on the edge of economic collapse as it is, we don't need another Great Depression.

All economies have a certain amount of inertia. After that changes happen. In this case very bad things.

Consider you for example in a hypothetical situation. Suppose you are in a family who plans to put you through college. Oops. Well not now.

Why?

Well, inflation has just kicked in. You see, not only do cars run on oil, but does industry. Costs of materials, energy, transportation etc. have just gone up. Way up. Dad's company is now forced to cut, and the only option is people.

Welcome to unemployment. Well, that's not so bad right? Well, all those costs of doing business get passed to individuals in the form of inflation. Everything, and I mean everything costs more now.

That home your parents bought that has had a nice increase in value? Well it did, but inflation means people aren't going to buy as much, especially when coupled with rising unemployment.

So the housing market collapses. The value of that home is gone. Worse, it's lower that it was. Negative equity.

Oh, interests rates are skyrocketing too.

People buy even less. Now there are more layoffs, more unemployment.

So what part of the above scenario seems good to you?

None to me.
Click to expand...
McOwen is hoping and praying for it though.
 
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
I think the US (if not the world) is on the edge of economic collapse as it is, we don't need another Great Depression.

All economies have a certain amount of inertia. After that changes happen. In this case very bad things.

Consider you for example in a hypothetical situation. Suppose you are in a family who plans to put you through college. Oops. Well not now.

Why?

Well, inflation has just kicked in. You see, not only do cars run on oil, but does industry. Costs of materials, energy, transportation etc. have just gone up. Way up. Dad's company is now forced to cut, and the only option is people.

Welcome to unemployment. Well, that's not so bad right? Well, all those costs of doing business get passed to individuals in the form of inflation. Everything, and I mean everything costs more now.

That home your parents bought that has had a nice increase in value? Well it did, but inflation means people aren't going to buy as much, especially when coupled with rising unemployment.

So the housing market collapses. The value of that home is gone. Worse, it's lower that it was. Negative equity.

Oh, interests rates are skyrocketing too.

People buy even less. Now there are more layoffs, more unemployment.

So what part of the above scenario seems good to you?

None to me.
Click to expand...
McOwen is hoping and praying for it though.
Click to expand...

My concern is that for once Dave might be right, and in fact he must be if energy priced reach a certain point.

"A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!" may not be too far off, if people like the OP have their way.

 
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
My concern is that for once Dave might be right, and in fact he must be if energy priced reach a certain point.

"A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!" may not be too far off, if people like the OP have their way.
Click to expand...
Nah. Dave and the rest of the doomsday-ists just want you to believe that they're right. They know well that having a sense of defeatism is the most crucial element in bringing about the actual defeat. In other words, creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. The reason? Some want to bring about the downfall of the US government in order to institute their radical political reform, but the REAL reason is that it is much easier to philosophically accept one's own mortality if you can do it with the knowledge that everyone else is going with you. It's easier to go to Hell knowing the entire world is in the same handbasket.
 
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
My concern is that for once Dave might be right, and in fact he must be if energy priced reach a certain point.

"A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!" may not be too far off, if people like the OP have their way.
Click to expand...
Nah. Dave and the rest of the doomsday-ists just want you to believe that they're right. They know well that having a sense of defeatism is the most crucial element in bringing about the actual defeat. In other words, creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. The reason? Some want to bring about the downfall of the US government in order to institute their radical political reform, but the REAL reason is that it is much easier to philosophically accept one's own mortality if you can do it with the knowledge that everyone else is going with you. It's easier to go to Hell knowing the entire world is in the same handbasket.
Click to expand...


Frankly, what he says has no influence whatsoever. Energy is an absolute necessity to the economy. If it is priced beyond the means to obtain it, then the econony cannot function. There is no alternative in the short run. Everything manufactured or transported is affected. From there everything runs downhill. How bad do things get? It all depends on how much and for how long. That remains to be seen. I think it would be foolish to believe in ourselves as being indestructable. Can't do a dang thing about it, so I'm just along for the ride like everyone else.
 
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
I think the US (if not the world) is on the edge of economic collapse as it is, we don't need another Great Depression.

All economies have a certain amount of inertia. After that changes happen. In this case very bad things.

Consider you for example in a hypothetical situation. Suppose you are in a family who plans to put you through college. Oops. Well not now.

Why?

Well, inflation has just kicked in. You see, not only do cars run on oil, but does industry. Costs of materials, energy, transportation etc. have just gone up. Way up. Dad's company is now forced to cut, and the only option is people.

Welcome to unemployment. Well, that's not so bad right? Well, all those costs of doing business get passed to individuals in the form of inflation. Everything, and I mean everything costs more now.

That home your parents bought that has had a nice increase in value? Well it did, but inflation means people aren't going to buy as much, especially when coupled with rising unemployment.

So the housing market collapses. The value of that home is gone. Worse, it's lower that it was. Negative equity.

Oh, interests rates are skyrocketing too.

People buy even less. Now there are more layoffs, more unemployment.

So what part of the above scenario seems good to you?

None to me.
Click to expand...

If you don't already, you should read Stephen Roach at Morgan Stanley weekly commentary

Basically, global economic inbalances are at all time, unprecedented highs. Inflated asset values, trade deficit, national debt, over extended consumers. Savings rate of american individuals is now actually below zero, they spend more than they earn. Spending fueled by overleveraged, inflated home values instead of income growth.

Subzero saving consumers are completely unequipped to deal with sudden jumps in energy prices and general inflation. They have no more unused income to deal with increases in cost. The global economy is US driven, and the US economy is american consumer driven. If energy prices go up, and home values collapse, it will stall the US economy, and economic damage will be felt around the world.

It's too soon to tell the true economic damage of Katrina, but it might be the event that triggers the next big recession. Of course it's bad to wish it upon everyone, but at the same time, anyone who reads economic news can't say they didn't see it coming. The end of the easy credit, easy motoring, easy money american lifestyle may be around the corner.
 
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