Higgs boson definitely found - probably . . .

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zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
What does this mean to us in practical terms?

The X-ray is useful.. and so is penicillin. Neither were discovered with a practical objective or application in mind. No one went looking for these things with the mindset of "I want to find a new way to see inside the body" or "I want to find a cure for bacterial infections". When the electron was discovered in 1897 it was useless.. and now we have an entire world run by electronics.
 

jhu

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
11,918
9
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What does this mean to us in practical terms?

Immediatly, probably not much. Look at the discovery of quantum mechanics nearly 100 years ago. There was no practical benefit back then. Now approximately 33% of our economy is based on quantum mechanics.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,153
0
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Immediatly, probably not much. Look at the discovery of quantum mechanics nearly 100 years ago. There was no practical benefit back then. Now approximately 33% of our economy is based on quantum mechanics.

Please explain.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
I've had religious folk use things like the "God Force" in arguments for the existence of God. If you're curious, apparently that's what holds an atom together. :p
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
If physicists were a bit smarter they'd have named bosons bosoms instead. Then we'd be on the edge of discovering G-d's boobies. And who doesn't love boobies?
 

jhu

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
11,918
9
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Please explain.

Modern electronics depends on an understanding of quantum mechanics. Find me an industry that doesn't rely on computers of some sort. That number was something I heard from some physicist ont TV. It's actually probably higher.
 

alzan

Diamond Member
May 21, 2003
3,860
2
0
I've had religious folk use things like the "God Force" in arguments for the existence of God. If you're curious, apparently that's what holds an atom together. :p

Sounds like they borrowed that from George Lucas/Star Wars: "Use the God Force, Jesus"

Or maybe it's more like "Intelligent Falling"
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
The X-ray is useful.. and so is penicillin. Neither were discovered with a practical objective or application in mind. No one went looking for these things with the mindset of "I want to find a new way to see inside the body" or "I want to find a cure for bacterial infections". When the electron was discovered in 1897 it was useless.. and now we have an entire world run by electronics.

Those things you mention you can easily produce. This? Not so. Doesn't mean it's useless by any means, but I doubt you are going to see a practical device based on particle production. I think it's a "piece of the puzzle" sort of thing.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
Those things you mention you can easily produce. This? Not so. Doesn't mean it's useless by any means, but I doubt you are going to see a practical device based on particle production. I think it's a "piece of the puzzle" sort of thing.

They can be easily produced now.. but not back when they were first discovered. Were they relatively as costly and time consuming to produce back then as the Higgs Boson is today? No, but they weren't exactly easy either. Only a select few people had the equipment to do so.. just like with the Higgs.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,866
31,364
146
They can be easily produced now.. but not back when they were first discovered. Were they relatively as costly and time consuming to produce back then as the Higgs Boson is today? No, but they weren't exactly easy either. Only a select few people had the equipment to do so.. just like with the Higgs.

I can't wait until the day when I get my own personal 500 mile particle accelerator under my house!

:wub:
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
Those things you mention you can easily produce. This? Not so. Doesn't mean it's useless by any means, but I doubt you are going to see a practical device based on particle production. I think it's a "piece of the puzzle" sort of thing.

True but the same thing could have been said about quantum mechanics at the time it was first thought up.

A better understanding of our universe and how it works is ALWAYS a great thing and almost always leads to even greater things.

This discovery could lead to marvels that we can't even fathom right now just like the people that first theorized about quantum mechanics in the early 1900s couldn't fathom the computer, internet, and even mini-computers that almost everyone has that fits in your pocket. I don't know the history of it but I would wager that more than a few people who helped pioneer quantum physics were simply trying to "figure shit out", just like with the Higgs.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
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I can't wait until the day when I get my own personal 500 mile particle accelerator under my house!

:wub:

I am pretty sure he is talking about Xray and penicillin, both of which are rather easy to produce/discover today but most probably weren't back when they were originally discovered.
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
Higgs! :eek:

My we live in interesting times indeed...
 

Born2bwire

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 2005
9,840
6
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Please explain.

In short, transistors. The theory and operation of semiconductors is purely quantum mechanics. Current attempts at designing smaller transistors and future technologies to replace silicon are at the forefront of quantum mechanical simulations.

I am pretty sure he is talking about Xray and penicillin, both of which are rather easy to produce/discover today but most probably weren't back when they were originally discovered.

To whit, some of the first recipients of penicillin died not because the antibiotic was ineffective, but because they could not produce a large enough supply to complete the treatment.
 
Last edited:
Dec 30, 2004
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In short, transistors. The theory and operation of semiconductors is purely quantum mechanics. Current attempts at designing smaller transistors and future tecnologies to replace silicon are at the forefront of quantum mechanical simulations.



To whit, some of the first recipients of penicillin died not because the antibiotic was ineffective, but because they could not produce a large enough supply to complete the treatment.

only matters at very very low process nodes below 22nm.
Up till this point, Qeffects in transistors largely ignorable.
Big lie to say "33% of economy depends on it" when it is something that is ignorable. Having tunneling? Just make your dielectric thicker.

Going forward, that will change, eventually, but industry electronics do not and will not soon (with 5 years) make use of 22 and 14nm process node silicon.
 

Born2bwire

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 2005
9,840
6
71
only matters at very very low process nodes below 22nm.
Up till this point, Qeffects in transistors largely ignorable.
Big lie to say "33% of economy depends on it" when it is something that is ignorable. Having tunneling? Just make your dielectric thicker.

Going forward, that will change, eventually, but industry electronics do not and will not soon (with 5 years) make use of 22 and 14nm process node silicon.

No, the whole theory of semiconductors is quantum mechanics. For example, the band diagrams that define the energy gap between the insulating and conducting states are found from the solutions to the Schroedinger equation for the bulk materials. This isn't apparent because they have had over 60 years to refine and simplify the theory so that what is typically taught in high school or undergraduate solid state physics are simplified models that are derived from the quantum mechanical models. But that doesn't change the fact that semiconductors are not described by classical physics. The theory only came about due to application of quantum mechanics.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
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True but the same thing could have been said about quantum mechanics at the time it was first thought up.

A better understanding of our universe and how it works is ALWAYS a great thing and almost always leads to even greater things.

This discovery could lead to marvels that we can't even fathom right now just like the people that first theorized about quantum mechanics in the early 1900s couldn't fathom the computer, internet, and even mini-computers that almost everyone has that fits in your pocket. I don't know the history of it but I would wager that more than a few people who helped pioneer quantum physics were simply trying to "figure shit out", just like with the Higgs.

In a hundred years it's hard to imagine that this will not have any effect, and what that will be is unknown, but the Higgs is high energy physics and as such there won't be an easy method of generating them. No Higgs "flashlight" so to speak.

Regarding quantum mechanics the materials used are ordinary physical materials which are used such as silicon. There is something which we can touch and manipulate. Further, the reason we know about quantum effects was the discovery of small anomalies, which is quite different regarding the Higgs. What would be wonderful is if there were variations of mass which might suggest that a manipulation of the field were possible to reduce mass temporarily. If one could reduce the effects of inertia and gravity we could roam the solar system at will. We might move mountains of material as if they were grains of sand. That's entirely speculative, granted, however that is an obvious potential use. Yet though we may know in part "why the muon weighs" it weighs what it weighs.

No one can see the future, and the conformation of the Higgs is important, but it's not a guarantee of anything. Then again nothing is, and that's the fun part. The unexpected is always the best.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
OK, it's NOT the Higgs yet.

From Science Daily

The next step will be to determine the precise nature of the particle and its significance for our understanding of the universe. Are its properties as expected for the long-sought Higgs boson, the final missing ingredient in the Standard Model of particle physics? Or is it something more exotic?

It's a boson at 126 GeV but it's properties have not yet been determined. Could be something completely new and unexpected. That would be at least as cool.
 
Oct 30, 2004
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It should be noted that quantum mechanics also plays a role in chemical and biological research. For example, in structural biology models of proteins are refined based on quantum mechanics-based rules.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,797
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22982583.jpg
 

ichy

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2006
6,940
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Why the fuck does the media keep calling it the "God particle"??? It's the "god damn particle", dammit!!! I'd like to get all science reports in a room and smack'em upside the head.

This. I despise the term "god particle" and it's not particularly accurate either. This is a very important discovery but it's not like everything in particle physics has now been explained away.

BTW, looks like Peter Higgs had better start writing his Nobel Prize speech.