Hey smokers, how would you like to get denied a job because you smoke?

[diesbudt]

I see this as no different as an employer saying we won't hire you if you decide to use cyanide daily

This is so unfair!!!

 

[EMPshockwave82]

I own a gym. I will give you one example. We have a married couple that are members, both in their mid sixties. Both very fit, both work out 5 days a week. He is about 6'2". I don't know his weight but nobody would ever in a million years look at him and think he's overweight or even carrying an extra few pounds. He's not muscular per se, just very fit looking.

According to the charts he's obese. When bureaucrats start making decisions on coverage, copays and premiums, he's going to be an unhappy camper. He knows this. We've talked about it. What will his recourse be? Some schlub sitting at a desk is going to make the determination. With a population as large as we have, I just don't envision an appeal process.

BMI is widely regarded as horribly inaccurate for anyone who is athletic. Anyone who uses purely BMI as a measure of obesity or health is delusional.

BMI can quickly and easily be countered and modified with waist size and body fat percentage measurements being added into the equation and it would balance things out for those people who aren't fat but will always be measured as "obese" because of muscular build.

 

[holden j caufield]

no company wants to pay the medical benefits for a smoker. It can also show bad judgement about the person and little self control to continue smoking (with all the info we know about smoking and 2nd hand smoke). Plus smoking outside the door does actually affect other employees walking in and out, sitting next too etc.. Mostly a bottom line decision, I'm sure they've run all the numbers, figured how much smokers are costing them in sick days, productivity, current healthcare, their families exposed to 2nd hand smoke and their healthcare, future healthcare for pensions etc.

 

[Veliko]

no company wants to pay the medical benefits for a smoker. It can also show bad judgement about the person and little self control to continue smoking (with all the info we know about smoking and 2nd hand smoke). Plus smoking outside the door does actually affect other employees walking in and out, sitting next too etc.. Mostly a bottom line decision, I'm sure they've run all the numbers, figured how much smokers are costing them in sick days, productivity, current healthcare, their families exposed to 2nd hand smoke and their healthcare, future healthcare for pensions etc.

No company wants to pay the medical benefits for anyone.

 

[boomerang]

BMI is widely regarded as horribly inaccurate for anyone who is athletic. Anyone who uses purely BMI as a measure of obesity or health is delusional.

BMI can quickly and easily be countered and modified with waist size and body fat percentage measurements being added into the equation and it would balance things out for those people who aren't fat but will always be measured as "obese" because of muscular build.

Well here's to hoping the gub'ment doesn't use BMI. BTW, his Doctor is the one that told him he's obese. Let's hope Doc gets some leeway in making his determination when push comes to shove.

 

[mikeymikec]

I would be much more pro the idea of a government ban on say smoking than a through-the-back-door-essentially-a-ban through insurance / private companies.

The government is answerable to the people whereas private organisations are not (anywhere near as much).

 

[bignateyk]

I think it's bullshit, and is an overreach of corporatised America. This country's going to shit, and the only bright spot is I'm closer to death than birth...

I disagree on this one. Companies are forced to pay for health insurance, so they should have a right to turn away people who are going to drive up the cost of health care.

They should give the employee the option to waive their healthcare coverage if they detect nicotine.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Its simply another way to cherry pick the best possible lowest cost employees. Everyone knows smoking is bad, I don't like the level of prying into our personal lives that employers are allowed & able to do. Some reasonable limits need to be imposed.
This will fix itself once hiring picks up

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Oh and I forgot to mention I want to see the look on everyone's face when employers ask someone get on a scale to verify their BMI information. I'd bet there are plenty of fat bastards on these boards.

 

[purbeast0]

That's fine. Company property and time are theirs, and they can set the rules for THEIR property. That doesn't extend to my house.

they ARE setting the rules for THEIR property, and that rule is if you are a smoker, you won't be hired.

i see nothing wrong with that as well. if you don't like it, look for a job elsewhere.

 

[bignateyk]

Oh and I forgot to mention I want to see the look on everyone's face when employers ask someone get on a scale to verify their BMI information. I'd bet there are plenty of fat bastards on these boards.

There is a pretty large anti-fatty movement here, so must of us wouldn't mind weight limits. :awe:

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I disagree on this one. Companies are forced to pay for health insurance, so they should have a right to turn away people who are going to drive up the cost of health care.



not with you here think about it, fine to turn away someone who has a birth defect, or previously had a heart attack? Think twice what you wish for. how about limits on Polynesians because they have poor diets?

 

[bignateyk]

they ARE setting the rules for THEIR property, and that rule is if you are a smoker, you won't be hired.

i see nothing wrong with that as well. if you don't like it, look for a job elsewhere.

Agreed. I've always said in these smoking threads that I don't mind the government banning smoking on public property, but I HATE that they can force private companies (bars) to ban smoking.

By the same token, I don't think a private company should be forced to hire smokers either.

 

[lxskllr]

I disagree on this one. Companies are forced to pay for health insurance, so they should have a right to turn away people who are going to drive up the cost of health care.

They should give the employee the option to waive their healthcare coverage if they detect nicotine.

That's fine as long as they turn away blacks, people that eat cured meat, alcohol users, and people that eat sugar. They all raise health care costs, so they shouldn't be hired either. Anyone who disagrees can fuck themselves. Discrimination is wrong and immoral. The fact that some classes are "protected"(which is wrong in itself) has zero bearing on matter. That's the brain dead asshattery I was ranting about a couple weeks ago, where the stupid get their ethics from a law book, because they don't have the mental faculties to parse right and wrong themselves.

 

[bignateyk]

not with you here think about it, fine to turn away someone who has a birth defect, or previously had a heart attack? Think twice what you wish for. how about limits on Polynesians because they have poor diets?

Smoking is a choice. So is eating a terrible diet and being fat.

 

[bignateyk]

That's fine as long as they turn away blacks, people that eat cured meat, alcohol users, and people that eat sugar. They all raise health care costs, so they shouldn't be hired either. Anyone who disagrees can fuck themselves. Discrimination is wrong and immoral. The fact that some classes are "protected"(which is wrong in itself) has zero bearing on matter. That's the brain dead asshattery I was ranting about a couple weeks ago, where the stupid get their ethics from a law book, because they don't have the mental faculties to parse right and wrong themselves.

How is it wrong to tell someone there are consequences for making terrible life choices (smoking, drinking, being obese)?

 

[SpatiallyAware]

While I am a huge advocate of civil liberties, when that comes at a cost to others I start to not care.

Smokers cost us more in health insurance, now gov't healthcare, they tend to take too many breaks, and they rarely seem to be capable of figuring out that smoking next to the door is beyond rude.

 

[bononos]

I don't understand how existing smokers could be forced to quit or be fired, smoking is not illegal and yes, it's bad for you as are a LOT of things that are perfectly legal as smoking. I can see it coming, BMI indexing, blood-work draws then the holy grail, DNA testing, "I',m sorry Mr Smith, we see a prevalence in yo genetic makeup that gives you a very high preponderance to pancreatic cancer, we can't use you, bye.."

Since the cost of providing health care to employees is expensive, why should you be wondering why companies might prefer to choose healthier employees? Imagine a bunch of sick wheezy employees who may need high priced cancer treatments in the future.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

alright here is the ultimate question. Employers are concerned about second hand smoke, would they turn away a customer that smokes?

 

[lxskllr]

How is it wrong to tell someone there are consequences for making terrible life choices (smoking, drinking, being obese)?

Because EVERYONE makes "terrible" life choices. You're only for tobacco restriction because it doesn't affect /you/, which is wrong. I could examine your life, or anyone else's here, and come up with a reason I shouldn't hire them.

 

[JoLLyRoGer]

But you wonder where it ends. Could companies require physical exams that include blood-work for a lipid panel?. Sorry Mr Smith, your HDL/LDL is WAY out of whack not to mention your triglycerides, you test out like a bacon freak Mr. Smith, I'm sorry, we can't use you..

Why stop there?... Why not do a full genetical panel. Sorry Mr. Smith, we see here your father's grandmother died of Lukemia which pre-disposes you to getting cancer. You're too much of a risk.

Or sorry Ms. Smith, we see here you are diabetic, and you Mr. Black, you have a history of heart disease, and you Mr. Pink.., we see a history of clinical depression in your family background, and Mr. Blonde.. sorry but we won't hire those with a family history of heart disease..

Where does the slippery slope end? Seasonal Allergies? Can't afford to have those people missing a day of work every Spring and Fall now can we?...

Reminds me of that movie Gattica with Ethan Hawke and Jude Law.

 

[Exterous]

I think it's bullshit, and is an overreach of corporatised America. This country's going to shit, and the only bright spot is I'm closer to death than birth...

Well, until a politician actually wants to do something about rising health care costs I expect we will see this trend continue. This is more overt but many companies are switching to plans like BC's Health Blue Living.

You get 'rewarded' for passing certain health tests (Weight, tobacco, cholesterol, depression etc). They pass it off with marketing BS by calling the plan levels 'enhanced' and 'standard'. If you don't conform to the qualifications you still get the 'standard' level of coverage but if you pass you get the 'bonus' of getting the 'enhanced' level of coverage. Everyone conveniently ignores that, prior to the switch, everyone got what was now called 'enhanced' levels of care with no tests to pass.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

/ignore

 

[BUTCH1]

I disagree on this one. Companies are forced to pay for health insurance, so they should have a right to turn away people who are going to drive up the cost of health care.

They should give the employee the option to waive their healthcare coverage if they detect nicotine.

They could do it in a fair manner, if someone admitted he/she smoked they should possibly pay more than a non-smoker. We're all overlooking something here and that is insurance is usually obtained from a for-profit insurance co and that's a dumb idea anyway, to an ins. co. you would want to stay away from smokers, overweight people, people with genetic predispositions, you name it...

 

[bignateyk]

I like how everyone is talking about freedom, but what they are really talking about is socialism. So your argument is that everyone who doesn't make poor living choices should have to share the burden of paying the health care of those who smoke and eat a poor diet. :facepalm:

Nobody is taking away your right to kill yourself by smoking. Just don't expect the rest of us to foot the bill for it.