TheSnowman
If you had read the entire thread you would know that those messages came from the Afghanistan conflict. You know, the one where the US had to go into Afghanistan to root out the Islamic fundamentalist terrorist organization Al-Queada since the Islamic fundamentalist Taliban would not give them up.
I think its bad form to put something like that on a bomb, but most of our soldiers are still kids, who are a lot braver than I am, so if they have to write that on there, then they have to write that on there.
But for the person/people catching that bomb, I think the least of their worries are what's written on it.
But for the person/people catching that bomb, I think the least of their worries are what's written on it.
LilBlinbBlahIce
Doesn't the fact that the media outlet here used a picture from the conflict in Afghanistan, saying it was dropped on Iraq, make the ENTIRE article irrelevant. If they use the bomb pic to stir emotions, who is to say that the pictures of harmed civilians are not BS as well? Given the source, the entire post is VERY questionable. Its also funny how the Arab media only has 15 to 20 pictures (I have seen these same pics OVER AND OVER) to use when chastising the US about collateral damage.
Doesn't the fact that the media outlet here used a picture from the conflict in Afghanistan, saying it was dropped on Iraq, make the ENTIRE article irrelevant. If they use the bomb pic to stir emotions, who is to say that the pictures of harmed civilians are not BS as well? Given the source, the entire post is VERY questionable. Its also funny how the Arab media only has 15 to 20 pictures (I have seen these same pics OVER AND OVER) to use when chastising the US about collateral damage.
It doesn't specifically state they are from Iraq, but they included the bomb from Afghanistan among pictures that have been circulating of Iraqi civilian casualties. Also, the title of the page hints at this.
Grouping the Iraqi civilian images with the afghan bomb image is obviously done on purpose, as an incendiary measure.
Grouping the Iraqi civilian images with the afghan bomb image is obviously done on purpose, as an incendiary measure.
I'd say it's more of an assumption on your part that those images are of Iraqi (and not Afghani) civilians than it is a deliberate, "incendiary measure." Furthermore, even if they ARE grouped together as one, is it so conniving to group images from two "US v. misc. rogue arab state" conflicts that occured hardly a year apart?
Seems to me like you and etech are grasping at straws to find a way to categorically disregard the point, which is that SOMEBODY, in SOME WAR that we were involved in in the past two years, wrote "happy ramadan" or whatever on a bomb.
Seems to me like you and etech are grasping at straws to find a way to categorically disregard the point, which is that SOMEBODY, in SOME WAR that we were involved in in the past two years, wrote "happy ramadan" or whatever on a bomb.
The boy with no arms and burns on his body is from Iraq. They are deliberately mixing two seperate conflicts. Why not include some pictures of the devestation from Hiroshima?
I also fail to see how writing Happy Ramadan on a bomb is anything of significance. Writing on bombs is a tradition dating back to when bombs were first developed. In the early days of gunpowder I don't doubt messages of "endearment" were written on the first artillery shells. There is a segment of the population that feels righteously outraged at every event and it's not supprising that someone gets their panties in a bunch about writing a message on a bomb.
So if they are conclusively from two separate conflicts, then the point of the web page is to represent the author's opinion of the evile nature of American "liberation" and military offensives. So he uses two separate conflicts for two separate examples and for continuity. You can spin it to be a disingenuous plot, or you can look at it for what it is: a photographic essay on American (alleged) Liberation wars...
Obviously the point is lost on you. It doesn't matter what conflict their from, the point is what was written on the bombs that were to be dropped on Muslims, it is irrelevant whether they are from Afghanistan or Iraq. Can you imagine the outrage if photos were discovered showing Arab troops writing "Suck on this for Yom Kippur" on bombs dropped during that war? It's the principle of the matter. We keep calling ourselves the "moral authority" of the world, maybe it's time we start acting that way. You can begin by accepting the fact that what was written was wrong. Period.
Judgement
Diamond Member
- Feb 8, 2001
- 3,815
- 0
- 0
IMO the writing on the bomb is part of a tradition, and was not really ment to be an ethnic or religious slur, but I can still see why some are offended. Those slogans are not there to "rub it in the face" of Muslims... they will never even see the messages. Their purpose is to help rile up US troops and give a face to to the enemy for them to hate. The writing on bombs could probably be redirected towards the more specific enemy as opposed to the entire religion, but to be honest I don't think it matters all that much. Even if the soldier who wrote that on the bomb truly believed in what he was writing, to believe that more then a very scarce few feel the same way would be erroneous.
Now, about the website.... it is clearly propaganda designed to manipulate feelings to feel hatred towards the US. The pictures next to the bomb are uncalled for, what do bystanders of a war have to do with a single soldiers slogan on a single bomb? The author of the website is clearly trying to produce inaccurate connections between the US soldiers and wounded civilians. His underlying message is that the civilians were intentionally injured by US soldiers because the soldiers hate all Muslims. That message is more then a little offensive and underhanded... not to mention completely wrong and nothing more then propaganda trying to encourage hatred of the US.
Now, about the website.... it is clearly propaganda designed to manipulate feelings to feel hatred towards the US. The pictures next to the bomb are uncalled for, what do bystanders of a war have to do with a single soldiers slogan on a single bomb? The author of the website is clearly trying to produce inaccurate connections between the US soldiers and wounded civilians. His underlying message is that the civilians were intentionally injured by US soldiers because the soldiers hate all Muslims. That message is more then a little offensive and underhanded... not to mention completely wrong and nothing more then propaganda trying to encourage hatred of the US.
I can imagine the outrage would be pretty similar to the outrage americans feel when they see Iraqies chanting death to america. Oh wait, what outrage? Maybe it would be similar to the outrage people feel for the messages that were written on bombs in every war past? Oh wait, what outrage? There is no principle other than the one you are trying to invent and feel outraged that the rest of us think you should get back to smoking whatever you were smoking because it's NOT A BIG DEAL. It's nothing, it's words written on a bomb. Sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me, unless I'm LilBlinbBlahIce. In which case the words appear to hurt immensely. The implication that writting on that bomb is an attack on Islam is assinine.
Afgahnistan was never presented as a war of liberation. It was a war of conquest of the taliban and al queda. The essay is nothing more than an attempt to present the belief that the American millitary targeted and is fighting Islam directly. This is the reason pictures from both wars are intermixed and not seperated. In a balanced comparison the same essay would include pictures of the current afghanistan and show the women back in school and the refugee camps in Iran and Pakistan are empty. But it doesn't present balance it presents one side and only one side to the exclusion of all evidence in an attempt to sway the viewer to a point of view. This is the same tactic used by those the support other causes such as that Aliens have visited the US and the US government conceals the evidence. For this reason the site is nothing more than propganda and should be discounted just as any other proaganda, but it's fashionable these days to believe the propaganda of outside forces.
I see a pretty solid connection. US soldiers drop bombs, which wound civilians like the ones found in the pictures. Is that so inflammatory as to be false? I don't think so...
"Afghanistan was never presented as a war of liberation" ... "would include pictures of the current afghanistan and show the women back in school"
Which is it?
Besides, since when does an opinion-based photo essay have to show both sides? Maybe you should take your complaint to FOX News as well, the supposed bastion of "fair and balanced" news who often use the same propogandist tactics. Furthermore, if "Here's a Ramadan Present" isn't a "direct" attack on Islam by a US soldier, I'm not sure what is...
How about both. You were wrong (read what you wrote) and to balance the essay they would have included the after effects of the wars.
So when US and British soldiers wrote Merry Christmas on the bombs during WWII they were attacking Christianity? Get real. Writing "Here's a Ramadan Present" on a bomb is nore more an attack on Islam than is writing Bend over Saddam. Had they wrote "I hope this bomb kills all muslims" then it might have been an attack on all of Islam. Had they written "Give this one to Muhammed" it might have been considered an attack on Islam. But the implication that writing a reference to a muslim Holiday on bomb is somehow an attack on all of Islam is ASSININE. The very concept of that being an attack on all of Islam is completely and utterly rediculous.
Your problem is that you don't recogize that I do see the point you are trying to make. I think your point is a load of bull crap the size of texas. That message is NOT an attack on Islam. To imply that it is as I have said 3 times already is ASSININE. You wanna find a good attack on Islam? Find me a bomb where a solider wrote that Muhammed was an incestuous pedophllic murder and that all Muslims should die. That would be a good attack on Islam, writing "Here's a present for Ramadan" is not an attack on Islam so stop trying to imply that it's a given that it is.
Sure, if I don't agree with you its assinine, the fact that you don't see my point is retarded. Whether you agree with it or not, I am pretty sure most Muslims would say that they find what was written on the bombs offensive. My point that whoever wrote that was a dumbass and he is just giving people material that they can use for anti-American propaganda. I said that in the last post. It you cannot understand that, then you are really, really thick. Go read my previous post again carefully. Anyway, I am tired of talking to you about this, you are not going to understand, and I am not going to buy your take on it, so lets just move on.
LilBlinbBlahIce
Osama bin Ladan is a Muslim. By your logic, all Muslims support what he did and all should be condemned for his actions.
There should be a wage page with a picture of OBL with the caption Allah Akbar surrounded by pictures of the victims of 9/11. If what you are saying about the webpage of the sailors scratching some slogans on a bomb is applicable than that would also be a fair and accurate representation.
I on the other hand don't see the need, necessity or have the desire to stir up more hatred so I would not put a page like that up or link to one on these forums if one exists. I don't see how that would promote peace and understanding.
I guess it all comes down to what your agenda is.
Osama bin Ladan is a Muslim. By your logic, all Muslims support what he did and all should be condemned for his actions.
There should be a wage page with a picture of OBL with the caption Allah Akbar surrounded by pictures of the victims of 9/11. If what you are saying about the webpage of the sailors scratching some slogans on a bomb is applicable than that would also be a fair and accurate representation.
I on the other hand don't see the need, necessity or have the desire to stir up more hatred so I would not put a page like that up or link to one on these forums if one exists. I don't see how that would promote peace and understanding.
I guess it all comes down to what your agenda is.
I don't understand how my logic would suggest that all Muslims support Bin Laden. I'm not saying everyone in the army would agree with what that individual soldier did, but that does not make the fact that he did it right. I know that that one soldier is not representative of our army as much as I know that Osama Bin Laden is not representative of Islam. But by causing 9/11, Bin Laden gave all Muslims a bad name. The same way, by writing what he did, that soldier gave whoever set up that website, a tool to further hate against America. Human Beings inevitably tend to generalize and lump together entire groups based on the actions of a few.
LilBlinbBlahIce
So which action in your eyes is worse? The sailor writing a message which normally would not be seen by anyone else or the deliberate posting of a hate filled message on the internet for millions to see.
So which action in your eyes is worse? The sailor writing a message which normally would not be seen by anyone else or the deliberate posting of a hate filled message on the internet for millions to see.
LilBlinbBlahIce
So which action in your eyes is worse? The sailor writing a message which normally would not be seen by anyone else or the deliberate posting of a hate filled message on the internet for millions to see.
So which action in your eyes is worse? The sailor writing a message which normally would not be seen by anyone else or the deliberate posting of a hate filled message on the internet for millions to see.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 24K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter