here we go! Wisconsin recount is happening

[ivwshane]

That's good. I'm glad at least a few blue staters would have the courage to die fighting rather than just roll over and take it. Nothing in the world is more pathetic than people who won't defend themselves and rely on better men to do it for them.

Sorry, I don't subscribe to the right wing fantasy of killing fellow Americans.


Russia appreciates you and werepossums enthusiasm for killing Americans though!

 

[boomerang]

I guess the big question today is will Stein be successful in getting a recount in Pennsylvania?

From what I heard on the radio today it can't be done. Deadlines have passed in numerous districts.

 

[werepossum]

New Mexico never had a recount in 2000, and the 'lost' votes look to have actually helped Bush, not Gore. If you are alleging some conspiracy then please post a link.



This is a frequent right wing myth that you have been duped by.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/2012fraud.asp



Will need a link for that one too. Let's put it this way, considering the basic facts you got wrong to start out with and the easily disproven conspiracy theory for the second one I'm not confident here either. It turns out that conservatives are very, very good at duping gullible people into believing ideologically convenient things. Considering how easily they tricked you into believing these things I have no doubt that if Clinton were somehow certified as the winner after the recount you would convince yourself it was stolen regardless of the evidence.

Here's a link touching on some of the blatant cheating that went on. The Canvassing Board turned every single decision in Franken's favor, much as we saw attempted in Florida. If a ballot showed an X rather than being filled in for Coleman, it was recorded as no vote. If a ballot showed an X rather than being filled in for Franken, it was recorded as a vote for Franken. And if there was an oval or X between both boxes, touching both, it was recorded as a vote for Franken. Lost 133 ballots from a Minneapolis district? No problem, we'll just use the election night tally which gives Franken a 46 vote bump. Gained an extra hundred ballots which give Franken an extra hundred votes? Not a problem, we'll use that count.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/1...pping-scales-in-minnesota-senate-recount.html

Gotta give the left credit though - while many hits show "duplicate ballots mixed in" in the Google summary, almost every direct mention of this happening has been expunged from the existing stories, where they don't simply return a 404. It's not quite up there with the removal of the audio of Obama thanking himself for inviting himself to the White House to meet himself, but it's still impressive. Especially given that it was the subject of legal action. I suspect that the officials involved remembered that they did not in fact accidentally mix in the duplicate ballots with the originals after all, meaning the increase in ballots is merely a mysterious coincidence beyond mankind's understanding.

http://www.startribune.com/judges-rule-franken-winner-coleman-to-appeal/42932907/

And the judges rejected Coleman claims that Franken netted about 100 votes in Minneapolis after some ballots disappeared and others were counted twice when local officials failed to keep track of damaged original ballots and their duplicates.

"The court did not hear testimony from any precinct election judge that they duplicated damaged ballots and failed to mark the duplicates or the originals," the judges wrote.

Regarding the missing ballots, they wrote: "The record contains no allegation or evidence of fraud or foul play with respect to the missing envelope of ballots." The judges said every indication is that the machine totals from the Minneapolis precinct were accurate.

 

[ivwshane]

Why would you not be in favour of recounts if you're not sure if election fraud took place?
Surely if you think that theres a chance that there's 3million illegal votes you'd be desperate for an investigation?

Well because his candidate won, dummy! He can't jeopardize that. An illegitimate win for his guy is still a win in his book.

 

[michal1980]

Classic projection. It's always the most irrational partisans on here that accuse everyone else of being just like them.

take a look in the mirror.

 

[ivwshane]

take a look in the mirror.

We'd all ask you to do the same but if you actually looked at yourself in the mirror you'd probably want to kill yourself.

 

[Thump553]

We spend billions on foolish wars and give aways to our corporate so-called citizens, it is beyond foolish to begrudge the couple thousand of private dollars that is being spent on this recount.

I agree with the others that have said this is a normal part of a clean electoral process-it should be subject to an honest audit.

And The Donald has done more than whine about this recount in his latest twit-he made up an unsubstantiated and total BS claim that "millions" of illegal votes were cast in the election. A leader that makes up "facts" so repeatedly is highly dangerous to the continuation of our republic. I hope and pray for the USA that in four years (or eight) that Trump voluntarily relinquishes the reins of power.

 

[buckshot24]

Why would you not be in favour of recounts if you're not sure if election fraud took place?
Surely if you think that theres a chance that there's 3million illegal votes you'd be desperate for an investigation?

Sure, lets investigate California's vote. Lets do it.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

That's good. I'm glad at least a few blue staters would have the courage to die fighting rather than just roll over and take it. Nothing in the world is more pathetic than people who won't defend themselves and rely on better men to do it for them.

*warning heavy dose of sarcasm*

It would be like the Civil War again. You all would run out of parts for Grandpas gun and you'd hand make parts that were real high quality and nice. While us Northern folks would be manning production lines churning out Predator drones and rail guns.

 

[jackstar7]

I'm amazed by the fuckery of Rs winning so much that if Ds win anything, it must be because it is rigged.

 

[jackstar7]

Sure, lets investigate California's vote. Lets do it.

YES PLEASE. Audit the whole election. Let's get integrity back in the system!

 

[werepossum]

Here's a bit better link about the duplicated ballots being counted along with the originals.
https://www.minnpost.com/eric-black-ink/2008/12/recounts-next-big-issue-duplicate-ballots

Duplicate ballots are created when there are ballots that can't be fed into the counting machines. Why? The most typical case (according to elections managers Rachel Smith of Anoka County and Joe Mansky of Ramsey County, who kindly explained all this to me) involves ballots cast by military personnel stationed far away. Those men and women (and thank you for your service) receive ballots via email, print them out on their computers, mark them and mail them in. Same for college students spending a semester overseas, Peace Corps workers, international businessmen, etc.)

Aha, but the paper from their printers is regular paper, not the thicker cardstock paper used for ballots, the machines won't take the paper. (Apparently there are other examples of ballots that the machines won't take, for example absentee ballots that are folded up too much or stained, but this is a major example.)

Pretty slick, but…
So the law requires a judge to create a duplicate. The judge is supposed to write "Original-1" on the first such case in the precinct, copy the soldier's votes onto a blank paper ballot (of the proper thickness), label that one "Duplicate-1," feed it into the machine, and save the original in a special folder for all the originals that come into that precinct (so, in case of a recount, the duplicate can be checked against the original). Pretty slick, eh?

If, when you go to recount, the duplicates and originals all match up, everything is hunky dory. But what if, when you go to recount, there is a gap between the number of originals in the folder and the number of marked duplicates in the pile of counted ballots?

This apparently occurred in many precincts in Minnesota. Smith said that in Anoka there were at least three such precincts. And in some precincts there was a significant gap in the number of originals and duplicates (significant meaning a gap of four or five in a single precinct). What might this disparity signify and how should it be handled if your goal is to get the most accurate count? You could create several theories about how the mismatch came about.

An election worker failed to label the duplicate, or failed to make it at all, or threw away the original after making the duplicate, or something else.

Key instructions
Heading into this year's recount, Secretary of State Mark Ritchie issued instructions to the counties on how to handle questions that might arise. In the matter of the duplicates, his instruction was to count the originals and set aside the duplicates. This was a new policy that Smith and Mansky said had not been followed in previous recounts.

In some precincts, this created a situation where there were more votes than voters, which probably increases the likelihood that those were cases where the duplicates were made and counted, but not labeled (and since they weren't labeled, they couldn't be set aside, according to the secretary of state's instructions). That's why the Coleman campaign is now complaining that Ritchie's policy created the double counting of more than 100 ballots.

 

[WelshBloke]

Sure, lets investigate California's vote. Lets do it.

You can do, you just need to raise the money for it.

Or did you want the government to pay for it?

 

[werepossum]

Sorry, I don't subscribe to the right wing fantasy of killing fellow Americans.


Russia appreciates you and werepossums enthusiasm for killing Americans though!

News flash: Cops are Americans too.

 

[baydude]

Trump is a degenerate piece of shit. What is worse, taking advantage of dumb people who believe this garbage he spreads, or him actually being crazy enough that he believes this shit. Pick your poison, either way you're left with a moron for your President. What a joke. Sad!

It's true

http://truethevote.org/statement-regarding-trump’s-claim-illegal-voting

 

[werepossum]

YES PLEASE. Audit the whole election. Let's get integrity back in the system!

Starting with the strict requirement of government-issued photo ID indicating citizenship and a national database of felons along with when they become eligible for voting again.

 

[Moonbeam]

The funny thing is that he thinks he is the most open minded. So much smugness does he have.

I have no idea how unbiased, read rational, eskimo is because he is more rational than I am. I can't see beyond my capacity to see. But what I can see is that whenever his rationality is challenged it is generally by the most unhinged members of this forum, people whose rationality extends not one inch from anything but gut certainty and of that I am more certain than any of you gut feeling types can ever be. That's the gift of knowing you know nothing, seeing without a need to believe anything one way or the other.

 

[fskimospy]

You don't think you are completely objective, do you?

No one is completely objective. That being said, all people are not even remotely equally objective.

Here's a link touching on some of the blatant cheating that went on. The Canvassing Board turned every single decision in Franken's favor, much as we saw attempted in Florida. If a ballot showed an X rather than being filled in for Coleman, it was recorded as no vote. If a ballot showed an X rather than being filled in for Franken, it was recorded as a vote for Franken. And if there was an oval or X between both boxes, touching both, it was recorded as a vote for Franken. Lost 133 ballots from a Minneapolis district? No problem, we'll just use the election night tally which gives Franken a 46 vote bump. Gained an extra hundred ballots which give Franken an extra hundred votes? Not a problem, we'll use that count.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/1...pping-scales-in-minnesota-senate-recount.html

Oh good, an opinion piece by John Lott. I bet the guy who used to make up fictitious personas in order to boost the credibility of his own research is totally giving us the unbiased story.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lott#Mary_Rosh_persona

How about you provide some real analysis instead of editorial pieces by known liars?

Gotta give the left credit though - while many hits show "duplicate ballots mixed in" in the Google summary, almost every direct mention of this happening has been expunged from the existing stories, where they don't simply return a 404. It's not quite up there with the removal of the audio of Obama thanking himself for inviting himself to the White House to meet himself, but it's still impressive. Especially given that it was the subject of legal action. I suspect that the officials involved remembered that they did not in fact accidentally mix in the duplicate ballots with the originals after all, meaning the increase in ballots is merely a mysterious coincidence beyond mankind's understanding.

http://www.startribune.com/judges-rule-franken-winner-coleman-to-appeal/42932907/

Wait, you think the news stories not showing what you want are part of a liberal disinformation campaign?

 

[Commodus]

Starting with the strict requirement of government-issued photo ID indicating citizenship and a national database of felons along with when they become eligible for voting again.

So we can verify the vote just so long as we use systems primarily intended to disenfranchise minority voters, and despite no evidence that voter-instigated fraud is a significant problem. Got it.

 

[fskimospy]

Here's a bit better link about the duplicated ballots being counted along with the originals.
https://www.minnpost.com/eric-black-ink/2008/12/recounts-next-big-issue-duplicate-ballots

I wonder why you left this part out of your quote. Innocent omission I'm sure.

You don't have to be super-cynical to suspect that the reason the two sides are making the arguments they are making is that the Coleman campaign believes the way the original/duplicates issue was handled ended up favoring Franken, and some of my sources have told me there is a potentially significant swing of votes if the Canvassing Board (or ultimately, the courts) decides to handle the issue differently.

(Although Rachel Smith told me that in Anoka County, "additional" ballots that were counted because of the policy netted out even between the two campaigns.)

What a devious plan Democrats have devised to steal the election by implementing a policy that resulted in a net even distribution of votes! SNEAKY.

 

[jackstar7]

Starting with the strict requirement of government-issued photo ID indicating citizenship and a national database of felons along with when they become eligible for voting again.

Why?

 

[werepossum]

I have no idea how unbiased, read rational, eskimo is because he is more rational than I am. I can't see beyond my capacity to see. But what I can see is that whenever his rationality is challenged it is generally by the most unhinged members of this forum, people whose rationality extends not one inch from anything but gut certainty and of that I am more certain than any of you gut feeling types can ever be. That's the gift of knowing you know nothing, seeing without a need to believe anything one way or the other.

It's worth pointing out that your hero has never yet seen a worthwhile argument against a single position of his, much less seen a single issue where the progressive far left is not absolutely correct both practically and morally.

In other words, every bit of his rationality could be replaced with a rubber stamp.

 

[werepossum]

I wonder why you left this part out of your quote. Innocent omission I'm sure.



What a devious plan Democrats have devised to steal the election by implementing a policy that resulted in a net even distribution of votes! SNEAKY.

Not to gainsay Rachel Smith, but Al Franken started with fewer votes and ended with more votes in the same process that created more ballots than were cast. Only in proggie math does that equal a "net even distribution of votes".

 

[fskimospy]

It's worth pointing out that your hero has never yet seen a worthwhile argument against a single position of his, much less seen a single issue where the progressive far left is not absolutely correct both practically and morally.

In other words, every bit of his rationality could be replaced with a rubber stamp.

Have you considered that your claims here are actually evidence of your own tenuous relationship with reality?

 

[ivwshane]

News flash: Cops are Americans too.

No shit dumbass!