Here Is What Louisiana Schoolchildren Learn About Evolution

[Cerpin Taxt]

The X-Men comic is evidence that Wolverine exists, too. 🙄

 

[Retro Rob]

The X-Men comic is evidence that Wolverine exists, too. 🙄

the comic itself is fictional.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Intelligent design requires intelligent creatorship.

In other words, we're a robust race (humans) with the ability to heal, reprouduce, think, reason, and also create things ourselves, etc.

If I see things that have order, then where did that order come from?

Define "order" in an objective and measurable way.

I know that nothing in my home that's in order can be done without orderly arrangement. I know that when I see a building that has a specific design for a specific purpose, for instance, I know someone did it.

Because 1.) We know with certainty that building builders exist, we can see their blueprints and watch them work, 2.) They build their buildings from materials that already exist, and 3.) Their buildings look so dissimilar to things like mountains, streams, and clouds.

I see my body, make up, and a lot of other arranged mechanism, but that doesn't require a purposeful Creator with a purpose in mind? In other words, a more intelligent being? (God).

Your incredulity is not an argument.

Ask yourself this: what would an undesigned universe look like? If it is your contention that this world was designed, how could you tell if you were looking at a world that was not designed? How would it differ from this?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

the comic itself is fictional.

Prove it.

 

[Retro Rob]

Define "order" in an objective and measurable way.

I don't think I need to. You know what "order" is.

Better still, am I allowed to present a product of order to you?

Because 1.) We know with certainty that building builders exist, we can see their blueprints and watch them work, 2.) They build their buildings from materials that already exist, and 3.) Their buildings look so dissimilar to things like mountains, streams, and clouds.

Let me counter by saying we didn't see the "Big Bang" exist, but we see order in our solar system... particualry with our planet. Yet, you readily accept the Big Bang as fact. Obviously, you don't need to see that to believe it.

However, you contribute what you see as a result to that event. In other words, you see "evidence" of that without seeing the event.

My point? You don't need to "see" everything to believe it.

I attribute the evidence ( in the case, the order I see in our solar system) to orderly, purposeful design.

Your incredulity is not an argument.

Ask yourself this: what would an undesigned universe look like? If it is your contention that this world was designed, how could you tell if you were looking at a world that was not designed? How would it differ from this?

Since when?

Whatever... yes it is.

 

[Retro Rob]

Prove it.

🙄

I don't have to.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

I don't think I need to. You know what "order" is.

It isn't a term that I'm using in an argument, numb nuts. You want to hang your argument on it, them define it.

Better still, am I allowed to present a product of order to you?

How will I know if is a product of order if you haven't defined your usage of the term?

Let me counter by saying we didn't see the "Big Bang" exist,

Sure we did. It is the naturalistic inference of our observation of the expansion is the universe. If we didn't see the big bang, then you don't see your computer monitor, either, since its existence is the naturalistic inference from your observation of some photons impacting your retinas in a particular pattern.

but we see order in our solar system... particualry with our planet. Yet, you readily accept the Big Bang as fact. Obviously, you don't need to see that to believe it.

What is "order"?

However, you contribute what you see as a result to that event. In other words, you see "evidence" of that without seeing the event.

Hypocrites accuse others of things which they themselves are guilty.

My point? You don't need to "see" everything to believe it.

I attribute the evidence ( in the case, the order I see in our solar system) to orderly, purposeful design.

On what basis? Can you show me a photograph of the designer? Can you Xerox the blueprints? Can you observe the construction process? These things are all true of building builders. If you want your analogy to hold let's see you carry it through.

Since when?

Since always. "I can't believe it so it isn't true" is about the worst "reasoning" I can think of.

Whatever... yes it is.

Your arguments are prime examples of the reasons why people think Christians are morons.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

🙄

I don't have to.

If Romans is evidence a god exists, then X-Men is evidence that Wolverine exists. In fact in X-Men there are even illustrations.

 

[Retro Rob]

How will I know if is a product of order if you haven't defined your usage of the term?

Semantics, I see. Fyi, I was referring to order, or to "regulate", "Govern" according to rule" if you want the dictionary version of it.

.....the laws that govern the earth's orbit, distance from the sun, tilt, were put in to place for life to be possible here.

It's all about using common sense.

Sure we did. It is the naturalistic inference of our observation of the expansion is the universe. If we didn't see the big bang, then you don't see your computer monitor, either, since its existence is the naturalistic inference from your observation of some photons impacting your retinas in a particular pattern.

haha, very clever. But I thought we came into exsistence after the big bang. I didn't know YOU were here to see it actually take place.

On what basis? Can you show me a photograph of the designer? Can you Xerox the blueprints? Can you observe the construction process? These things are all true of building builders. If you want your analogy to hold let's see you carry it through.

Since always. "I can't believe it so it isn't true" is about the worst "reasoning" I can think of.

Your arguments are prime examples of the reasons why people think Christians are morons.

Can you show me photos of the big bang (actually happening before our solar system came as a result).

I would LOVE to see the HUMAN evolution process actually happening over the course of Billions of years.

Can you handle that, idiot?


If you can't show me that, using your idiotic logic, I can attribute our existence to a unicorn.

 

[hal2kilo]

How scientific of you.

Have any anecdotes?

 

[3chordcharlie]

How scientific of you.

Have any anecdotes?

Reminds me of maybe my favorite comic ever.

http://xkcd.com/552/

 

[alzan]

I never said they were at war, but evloution was an attack on the Bible. The Bible teaches we're a product of intelligent design, (God), and didn't come from any previous animal/whatever. But we are a direct creation. Evolution says we were not a direct creation of God.

No, evolution is a scientific theory about how species adapt to survive in a particular environment; not an attack on the Bible.

Intelligent Design is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design

What you're speaking of is abiogenesis which is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

Evolutionary theory does not concern itself with abiogenesis.

lol

They're sellouts, and caved in to pressure from science and others. Just as the Catholic Church turned their backs on the Bible and God by accepting evolution as a valid theory. Jesus did not do this, and in fact he quoted from the Genesis account affirming his faith in God and creation.

I have many reasons in case one asks for more reasons for my faith. I have one good reason as well, supported by many more.

Accepting the evolutionary and other scientific theories does not equal turning your back on your spiritual faith and it's precepts. As stated before the two can co-exist for the same individual without conflict as long as the differences between them are recognized and respected.

 

[Darwin333]

You are missing the point. I believe what the Bible says about creation, that we didn't evolve from anything... we were created.

As far as that goes, evolution is the opinion, not fact.

If that flies into the face of "logic" or modern science, then I frankly don't care, and am not apologizing from my beliefs.

Call me what you wish, anyone, for that matter..

Actually, the Theory of evolution (notice the big T) is a well founded and well backed up scientific theory. There is a huge amount of supporting evidence and real world observations that back it up. Hell, without it we simply can not explain a lot of things and medicine would have made a tenth of the progress in the last few decades that it has.

You can chose to believe the Earth is flat or that the Earth is at the center of the universe or whatever you want. Thats entirely on you but it does in fact make you more ignorant by doing so.

 

[WelshBloke]

Actually, the Theory of evolution (notice the big T) is a well founded and well backed up scientific theory. There is a huge amount of supporting evidence and real world observations that back it up. Hell, without it we simply can not explain a lot of things and medicine would have made a tenth of the progress in the last few decades that it has.

You can chose to believe the Earth is flat or that the Earth is at the center of the universe or whatever you want. Thats entirely on you but it does in fact make you more ignorant by doing so.

Dude your arguing with someone that believes a book written a couple of thousand years ago lays out exactly how life, the universe and everything works...

...with no supporting evidence or theory behind it.

He's going to disregard everything you say and stick to his old book.

Just ignore him. You don't have to convince people that the world has moved on, they either keep up or get left behind.

 

[Darwin333]

I never said they were at war, but evloution was an attack on the Bible. The Bible teaches we're a product of intelligent design, (God), and didn't come from any previous animal/whatever. But we are a direct creation. Evolution says we were not a direct creation of God.

And what if god knew that he created an ever changing planet so he decided to make animals and eventually people in a way that they could evolve and adapt to those changes so that they may keep living? Is God not that powerful to see that without evolution everything he created would die? Perhaps god knew that people thousands of years ago were too ignorant to understand the concept so he gave them a simple story they would understand? Or perhaps god is just trying to fuck with you?

Regardless, one Theory in this debate has tons of evidence and one has virtually none. Even the "evidence" it does have is basically here-say and has been translated (who knows if correctly) and assembled multiple times before you ever read it.

They're sellouts, and caved in to pressure from science and others. Just as the Catholic Church turned their backs on the Bible and God by accepting evolution as a valid theory. Jesus did not do this, and in fact he quoted from the Genesis account affirming his faith in God and creation.

Have you ever considered that much like when the Church insisted the Earth was the center of the universe that perhaps, just maybe, they finally realized they are flat out wrong...... again....

I have many reasons in case one asks for more reasons for my faith. I have one good reason as well, supported by many more.

I bet your parents are of the same faith as you are, which is the reason.

 

[WelshBloke]

And what if god knew that he created an ever changing planet so he decided to make animals and eventually people in a way that they could evolve and adapt to those changes so that they may keep living? Is God not that powerful to see that without evolution everything he created would die? Perhaps god knew that people thousands of years ago were too ignorant to understand the concept so he gave them a simple story they would understand? Or perhaps god is just trying to fuck with you?

Regardless, one Theory in this debate has tons of evidence and one has virtually none. Even the "evidence" it does have is basically here-say and has been translated (who knows if correctly) and assembled multiple times before you ever read it.




Have you ever considered that much like when the Church insisted the Earth was the center of the universe that perhaps, just maybe, they finally realized they are flat out wrong...... again....



I bet your parents are of the same faith as you are, which is the reason.

Dude... Seriously...Arguing with someone that believes in fairy stories.

Not going to work.

 

[Retro Rob]

Hmmm, like they weren't wrong about abiogenesis before. 🙄

They *can* be wrong, again...

Not to intentionally discredit them, but that went back to Ancient Greek philosophy, and since Darwin333 wants to introduce bronze age thinking, then it's only fair to bring that up.

Alzan, thanks.

 

[mikegg]

The X-Men comic is evidence that Wolverine exists, too. 🙄

Scenario:

500,000 years into the future. 99.99999% of humans have gone extinct. The only humans left are people that don't have any idea about past civilizations.

Some bold left-over human finds an X-Men comic - the first book, the first technology he had ever seen. He looks at the pictures and thinks that X-Men were gods. He preaches to his followers.

New religion = X-Men?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Semantics, I see.

It's called rigor, and I'm not surprised it's foreign to you.

Fyi, I was referring to order, or to "regulate", "Govern" according to rule" if you want the dictionary version of it.

.....the laws that govern the earth's orbit, distance from the sun, tilt, were put in to place for life to be possible here.

It's all about using common sense.

But that simply isn't the way the universe operates. The planets are not held in orbit by the gravity police. There are no magical inspectors to enforce the ideal gas law. The universe does what it will, and humans abstract patterns of behavior that we call "gravity" or "magnetism."

You have based your argument on a fundamentally flawed idea. It's no wonder its products are so similarly erroneous.

haha, very clever. But I thought we came into exsistence after the big bang.

Nope.

I didn't know YOU were here to see it actually take place.

You should re-read my comments. I've already addressed this but it seems it eluded you. I don't care to repeat myself.

Can you show me photos of the big bang (actually happening before our solar system came as a result).

Can you show me photos of a computer monitor (not simply patterns of photons impacting a camera sensor)?

I would LOVE to see the HUMAN evolution process actually happening over the course of Billions of years.

I know that isn't true because it is already observable in the fossil record, biological morphology and genetics.

Can you handle that, idiot?

It is always amusing when the curves of ignorance and arrogance intersect at their respective maxima.

If you can't show me that, using your idiotic logic, I can attribute our existence to a unicorn.

I don't attribute existence to anything.

Comprehension. Try it sometime.

 

[Retro Rob]

But that simply isn't the way the universe operates. The planets are not held in orbit by the gravity police. There are no magical inspectors to enforce the ideal gas law. The universe does what it will, and humans abstract patterns of behavior that we call "gravity" or "magnetism."

The botton line is this; science abandonded objectivety a long, long time ago. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING they say lends to it.
I mean, I've read where it was likened to a neuclear bomb explosion (the Big Bang) and we know that explosions never results in precise, timed, organization.

Abandon reasoning and common sense like you are, and keep listening to people who would rather ignore all possiblities and options to pacify the masses.

You're indoctrinated, and you aren't questioning the scientific explanations. You're reading what they present, instead of conducting your own studies.


Have you ever conducted a study of your own, funded by you, to check the facts they're presenting? If not, you're a puppet.



EDIT:
and the only reason why I ask this is because you (not you but generic you) seem to demand a tangible result from people who believe in God.

You make it personal by asking us to make some sort of physical manifestation of God.

Can I ask the same of you? Make a personal, tangible manifestation of these tested and fact-based theories and present them to me.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

The botton line is this; science abandonded objectivety a long, long time ago. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING they say lends to it.

This is just a meaningless tantrum on your part, with no substance whatsoever.

I mean, I've read where it was likened to a neuclear bomb explosion (the Big Bang) and we know that explosions never results in precise, timed, organization.

And I've read people say that Jesus was a homosexual. So what?

The big bang was NOT an "explosion" and any properly qualified cosmologist or physicist will tell you the same. AGAIN, you are basing your arguments on plain errors of fact.

Abandon reasoning and common sense like you are, and keep listening to people who would rather ignore all possiblities and options to pacify the masses.

You're indoctrinated, and you aren't questioning the scientific explanations. You're reading what they present, instead of conducting your own studies.

More tantrum. I'm here to talk about the evidence, because I'm not afraid of it. Save your little whines for someone else.

Have you ever conducted a study of your own, funded by you, to check the facts they're presenting? If not, you're a puppet.

Patently ridiculous. Peer review exists precisely to address your spurious suggestion. Try again.

and the only reason why I ask this is because you (not you but generic you) seem to demand a tangible result from people who believe in God.

No, I demand evidence from someone who purports to explain real phenomena with something in conflict with widely accepted scientific knowledge. Your whining and pouting is very telling.

You make it personal by asking us to make some sort of physical manifestation of God.

What God?

Can I ask the same of you? Make a personal, tangible manifestation of these tested and fact-based theories and present them to me.

Sure. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

 

[Retro Rob]

And I've read people say that Jesus was a homosexual. So what?

That's my whole point. Years ago, it was thought to be explosion, now, "expansion", then "God" later on.

First abiogenesis (abeit, a great long time ago), now we have a common ancestor.

It's funny how "facts" change in science.

The big bang was NOT an "explosion" and any properly qualified cosmologist or physicist will tell you the same. AGAIN, you are basing your arguments on plain errors of fact.

See above.

No, I demand evidence from someone who purports to explain real phenomena with something in conflict with widely accepted scientific knowledge. Your whining and pouting is very telling.

And I demand evidence as well. It's ironic, God disbelivers/non-believers require evidence or proof, then take the physical universe and human/observable, orgainzed beings out of your hands as proof. But then can't produce one single shred of proof that a creator doesn't exists. Neat Atheist trick -- side with science, and shift all burden of proof on the "believer".

What God?



Sure. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

Nice!

 

[Paul98]

Scenario:

500,000 years into the future. 99.99999% of humans have gone extinct. The only humans left are people that don't have any idea about past civilizations.

Some bold left-over human finds an X-Men comic - the first book, the first technology he had ever seen. He looks at the pictures and thinks that X-Men were gods. He preaches to his followers.

New religion = X-Men?

Yeah if somehow the X-Men comics didn't fall apart I could see that haha.

 

[alzan]

That's my whole point. Years ago, it was thought to be explosion, now, "expansion", then "God" later on.

First abiogenesis (abeit, a great long time ago), now we have a common ancestor.

It's funny how "facts" change in science.

As our devices with which we explore the universe improve we learn more and more; so too does our understanding and explanation. The changing of words does not invalidate the scientific theory.

Abiogenesis is a completely different theory and field of study from macroevolution.


See above.



And I demand evidence as well. It's ironic, God disbelivers/non-believers require evidence or proof, then take the physical universe and human/observable, orgainzed beings out of your hands as proof. But then can't produce one single shred of proof that a creator doesn't exists. Neat Atheist trick -- side with science, and shift all burden of proof on the "believer".




Nice!

No one can prove a negative.

 

[Retro Rob]

As our devices with which we explore the universe improve we learn more and more; so too does our understanding and explanation. The changing of words does not invalidate the scientific theory.

Abiogenesis is a completely different theory and field of study from macroevolution

That's a completely understandable and acceptable conclusion.

However, some people don't remotely give scripture the same leverage. I've seen and understood enlightment on those basis from a Biblical standpoint, which helps me (and many others) to understand our past and future on those basis.

I don't expect the same leverage, however, enlightment happens on both fronts, both scientific and Biblical. Too bad though, because based on scientific projection, the enlightment offered is total annihilation of mankind when the Sun self-destructs millions of years from now and destroys the earth. Doom and gloom!!