Here Is What Louisiana Schoolchildren Learn About Evolution

[sandorski]

That's a completely understandable and acceptable conclusion.

However, some people don't remotely give scripture the same leverage. I've seen and understood enlightment on those basis from a Biblical standpoint, which helps me (and many others) to understand our past and future on those basis.

I don't expect the same leverage, however, enlightment happens on both fronts, both scientific and Biblical. Too bad though, because based on scientific projection, the enlightment offered is total annihilation of mankind when the Sun self-destructs millions of years from now and destroys the earth. Doom and gloom!!

No shit? What reason should they?

 

[Zorkorist]

Faith? Faith.



-John

 

[Timorous]

Rob M.

If you believe we were created by an intelligent designer (God) then how do you explain our flaws?

We have blind spots in our eyes, our engineers could design an eye that is better than ours. We also have organs with no obvious use like the appendix. It may have been useful in the past but if that is true then that is even more evidence of evolution. If it is not true and we were designed with an apparently useless organ then makes me think the designer is not all that intelligent.

Hell look at a giraffe and the recurrent laryngeal nerve, this is the nerve that controls the voice box. In fish it goes direct from the brain, past the heart to the gills, in humans and more obviously in giraffes it takes a detour because our necks got longer and the nerve is on the wrong side of the heart so this is now much longer than it needs to be. In giraffes this is now a 15 foot long nerve. Do you seriously think that if a giraffe were designed by an intelligent being it would be designed like this? especially considering it is the same basic design as humans. If you are designing each animal individually why would you use the same techniques for all of them?

 

[Lonbjerg]

Rob M.

If you believe we were created by an intelligent designer (God) then how do you explain our flaws?

We have blind spots in our eyes, our engineers could design an eye that is better than ours. We also have organs with no obvious use like the appendix. It may have been useful in the past but if that is true then that is even more evidence of evolution. If it is not true and we were designed with an apparently useless organ then makes me think the designer is not all that intelligent.

Hell look at a giraffe and the recurrent laryngeal nerve, this is the nerve that controls the voice box. In fish it goes direct from the brain, past the heart to the gills, in humans and more obviously in giraffes it takes a detour because our necks got longer and the nerve is on the wrong side of the heart so this is now much longer than it needs to be. In giraffes this is now a 15 foot long nerve. Do you seriously think that if a giraffe were designed by an intelligent being it would be designed like this? especially considering it is the same basic design as humans. If you are designing each animal individually why would you use the same techniques for all of them?

Not to mention our genitalia right by our rectum.
No engineer would put a amusement-park...right by a dumpsite....don't make sense.

 

[Paratus]

Not to mention our genitalia right by our rectum.
No engineer would put a amusement-park...right by a dumpsite....don't make sense.

Never met a civil engineer have you?

 

[alzan]

That's a completely understandable and acceptable conclusion.

However, some people don't remotely give scripture the same leverage. I've seen and understood enlightment on those basis from a Biblical standpoint, which helps me (and many others) to understand our past and future on those basis.

I don't expect the same leverage, however, enlightment happens on both fronts, both scientific and Biblical. Too bad though, because based on scientific projection, the enlightment offered is total annihilation of mankind when the Sun self-destructs millions of years from now and destroys the earth. Doom and gloom!!

I agree that enlightenment happens in both camps but I view the Biblical enlightenment as having more meaning and effect an individual level. Your (not specific but generic 'your') relationship with your deity/savior is personal and ultimately affects only you. Scientific enlightenment affects all peoples regardless of their spirituality or lack thereof.

I am not concerned in the slightest that in roughly five billion years the sun will enter it's "death" phase and during that process the Earth and any inhabitants will be destroyed. Mankind has had the ability to annihilate itself for all of our lives; I know I wouldn't bet on mankind or it's descendants being on Earth in five billion years.

Of course, if we're around for just 1% of that time, we'll most like have left the Earth for "sunnier" climes in the more fashionable eastern end of the galaxy. After a stop at Milliways, of course.

 

[Darwin333]

Dude your arguing with someone that believes a book written a couple of thousand years ago lays out exactly how life, the universe and everything works...

...with no supporting evidence or theory behind it.

He's going to disregard everything you say and stick to his old book.

Just ignore him. You don't have to convince people that the world has moved on, they either keep up or get left behind.

Very good point, I just hate to see people be willfully ignorant when we know better.

 

[Darwin333]

We have direct evidence of a Creator who brought us into existence apart from animal and any/all other creation, but you ignore that.

Exactly what direct evidence is that?

 

[Darwin333]

Not to mention our genitalia right by our rectum.
No engineer would put a amusement-park...right by a dumpsite....don't make sense.

Lol, I love that video.

Here is the rest for anyone that wants to watch it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEl9kVl6KPc

 

[Darwin333]

Intelligent design requires intelligent creatorship.

In other words, we're a robust race (humans) with the ability to heal, reprouduce, think, reason, and also create things ourselves, etc.

If I see things that have order, then where did that order come from?

I know that nothing in my home that's in order can be done without orderly arrangement. I know that when I see a building that has a specific design for a specific purpose, for instance, I know someone did it.

I see my body, make up, and a lot of other arranged mechanism, but that doesn't require a purposeful Creator with a purpose in mind? In other words, a more intelligent being? (God).

Umm, actually it isn't very "orderly", neither is the universe, the Earth, nor the animal life on it and that includes humans.

Birth defects, childhood leukemia, tsunamis, hurricanes, can't live on most of the Earth, volcanoes, disease, etc...

When you actually look at it with an objective eye you will see that we aren't very "intelligently designed" and neither is basically anything else in the universe. If this is the best that some omnipotent god can do, well, he sorta sucks then. Maybe we were his first draft and the actual perfect civilization is on some other planet somewhere?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

That's my whole point. Years ago, it was thought to be explosion, now, "expansion", then "God" later on.

It has never been God.

First abiogenesis (abeit, a great long time ago), now we have a common ancestor.

Common ancestry is not a replacement for abiogenesis. You are guilty of yet another error in fact. I might just start a tally.

It's funny how "facts" change in science.

Facts don't change. Our methods for discovering them simply improves. Only an idiot would suppose that this is some kind of flaw or liability.

And I demand evidence as well.

That demand was met in my previous post. Where is your alleged evidence?

It's ironic, God disbelivers/non-believers require evidence or proof, then take the physical universe and human/observable, orgainzed beings out of your hands as proof.

It isn't the fault of others that you are unable to support your claims.

But then can't produce one single shred of proof that a creator doesn't exists. Neat Atheist trick -- side with science, and shift all burden of proof on the "believer".

This isn't a debate about whether or not a creator exists. Please pay attention. This is about whether or not evolution is true. It has nothing to do with whether or not a creator exists. You only think it does because you have been sold a false narrative, clearly lacking the intellect and fortitude to evaluate it critically on your own.

Nice!

Now that you have seen the evidence, you are without excuse, as it were, so further misrepresentations or distortions of the facts about evolution will be interpreted as dishonesty.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

I wonder if Rob M accepts DNA tests as valid demonstrations of paternity.

 

[Paul98]

Don't forget it has never been an explosion ether.

 

[Darwin333]

Better still, am I allowed to present a product of order to you?

Let me counter by saying we didn't see the "Big Bang" exist, but we see order in our solar system... particualry with our planet. Yet, you readily accept the Big Bang as fact. Obviously, you don't need to see that to believe it.

However, you contribute what you see as a result to that event. In other words, you see "evidence" of that without seeing the event.

My point? You don't need to "see" everything to believe it.

LOL! You really don't get how science works do you. We don't "believe" in the big bang. We "believe" that as of right now that is the best Theory (big T) that we have to explain it based on our current evidence and observations. Thats the difference between science and people like you, if we find different evidence that proves something entirely different happened we will change our so called "beliefs".

Just like I was taught in school that the expansion of the universe was slowing down, and there was good reason to think that. We now know that is false and the universe is in fact speeding up. Once presented with the facts I didn't hold onto "no the universe is slowing down because thats what I was taught damnit!!!!".

I attribute the evidence ( in the case, the order I see in our solar system) to orderly, purposeful design.

Lol, our solar system is a freaking shooting gallery. What the hell is so "orderly" about that? 99.9999999% of our solar system will kill you instantly. Only a single planet is habitable and even that planet most of it isn't habitable. Solar flares, asteroids, radiation, etc..... Exactly what is so orderly about it?

It's funny how "facts" change in science.

That is exactly how science, and any rationale person examining ANYTHING, is supposed to work!

If all humans followed your thought process we would still believe the earth is flat, don't want to go changing stuff just because we learned new stuff do we?

 

[Retro Rob]

Rob M.

If you believe we were created by an intelligent designer (God) then how do you explain our flaws?

We have blind spots in our eyes, our engineers could design an eye that is better than ours. We also have organs with no obvious use like the appendix. It may have been useful in the past but if that is true then that is even more evidence of evolution. If it is not true and we were designed with an apparently useless organ then makes me think the designer is not all that intelligent.

Our flaws are not designed, they're a product of sin. If you read Rom 5:12, it states that through the sin of Adam, we're all sinners and thus get sick, old, and die.

Adam was perfect and didn't have these issues. Just the fall of man.

I was reading up on the Appendix, and as our understanding of the human body grows, so does the undertsanding of organs.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/2115389.../scientists-may-have-found-appendixs-purpose/


Some time ago, the thymus gland was also thought to be useless, until 1961.

Old science facts are understood more fully, as I readily accept. Darwin regarded the Appendix as useless through evolution, and according to several write-ups I've most recently read, it serves a purpose, though can be deadly if infected.

The human body wonderfully takes care of itself when not misused, abused, or extremely sickend!

 

[Retro Rob]

I agree that enlightenment happens in both camps but I view the Biblical enlightenment as having more meaning and effect an individual level. Your (not specific but generic 'your') relationship with your deity/savior is personal and ultimately affects only you. Scientific enlightenment affects all peoples regardless of their spirituality or lack thereof.

I am not concerned in the slightest that in roughly five billion years the sun will enter it's "death" phase and during that process the Earth and any inhabitants will be destroyed. Mankind has had the ability to annihilate itself for all of our lives; I know I wouldn't bet on mankind or it's descendants being on Earth in five billion years.

Of course, if we're around for just 1% of that time, we'll most like have left the Earth for "sunnier" climes in the more fashionable eastern end of the galaxy. After a stop at Milliways, of course.

True, true.

I am really not concerned about that either, just thought to mention it.. and since I won't live to be that old, doesn't concern me one bit.

I wondering if other "habitable zones" are conductive to life.

I guess if they can find liquid water, then at least we know where there is water, there is life.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Our flaws are not designed, they're a product of sin. If you read Rom 5:12, it states that through the sin of Adam, we're all sinners and thus get sick, old, and die.

Exactly how does that work, genius? Magic?

Adam was perfect and didn't have these issues.

What does "perfect" mean? Was he the perfect height? Was he the perfect weight? Were his fingernails perfectly manicured? Was his hair the perfect length? How long is that? How can you claim he was "perfect" if you do not have answers to these questions?

Just the fall of man.

Seems to me that possessing the capacity to "fall"was a pretty significant flaw in a supposedly "perfect" person.

 

[Retro Rob]

Lol, our solar system is a freaking shooting gallery. What the hell is so "orderly" about that? 99.9999999% of our solar system will kill you instantly. Only a single planet is habitable and even that planet most of it isn't habitable. Solar flares, asteroids, radiation, etc..... Exactly what is so orderly about it?

Shooting gallery indeed!

I guess I have to be more detailed. Planets don't (haven't, a better term) crashed into each other. Pluto (IIRC) has an orbit that iseemed to intersect with Neptune's (from above) but its passes millions of miles above it when it's closest to the Sun, preventing a collision.

Organization indeed!

I know we get hit with stuff all the time from space, but thanks to God for Jupiter being used as our "vaccum" to take care of the big stuff. Mountain-sized asteroids have been sucked into Jupiter and Saturn,.. even exploding on the Big Red Spot of Jupiter.

Our magnetic field hepls protect us from solar flares, though scientists have said it won't last "forever".

God's protecting Earth and has things in the right place to do it.

 

[Retro Rob]

What does "perfect" mean? Was he the perfect height? Was he the perfect weight? Were his fingernails perfectly manicured? Was his hair the perfect length? How long is that? How can you claim he was "perfect" if you do not have answers to these questions?

It simply means he was sinless.

Seems to me that possessing the capacity to "fall"was a pretty significant flaw in a supposedly "perfect" person.

he had free will. Before you ask anymore sarcastic questions, I invite you to read Genesis Chapter 3. If you don't want to read that in order to come to your own conclusions and continue to ask me questions about this when the chapter answers it, then you're trolling....

 

[sandorski]

Shooting gallery indeed!

I guess I have to be more detailed. Planets don't (haven't, a better term) crashed into each other. Pluto (IIRC) has an orbit that iseemed to intersect with Neptune's (from above) but its passes millions of miles above it when it's closest to the Sun, preventing a collision.

Organization indeed!

I know we get hit with stuff all the time from space, but thanks to God for Jupiter being used as our "vaccum" to take care of the big stuff. Mountain-sized asteroids have been sucked into Jupiter and Saturn,.. even exploding on the Big Red Spot of Jupiter.

Our magnetic field hepls protect us from solar flares, though scientists have said it won't last "forever".

God's protecting Earth and has things in the right place to do it.

/epicfacepalm

 

[Retro Rob]

/epicfacepalm

Which part(s)?

All of them? Of so, why?

Are you saying that planets DO crash into each other in our solar system?

Are you saying we don't have a mangnetic field that's hepled keep flares from frying the planet?

Are you saying Jupiter's gravitational pull has NEVER sucked things into it?

 

[sandorski]

Which part(s)?

All of them? Of so, why?

Are you saying that planets DO crash into each other in our solar system?

Are you saying we don't have a mangnetic field that's hepled keep flares from frying the planet?

Are you saying Jupiter's gravitational pull has NEVER sucked things into it?

Your conclusions are childish.

 

[Retro Rob]

Your conclusions are childish.

What conclusions?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Exactly how does that work, genius? Magic?

Just gonna ignore this question, eh? Why should we believe anything you say if you clearly do not understand your own claims?

It simply means he was sinless.

But that isn't what you said. Perhaps you should establish the reality of this thing you call "sin" and demonstrate the real effects you believe it has on human biology.

he had free will.

That doesn't refute my point, and it isn't something I'll stipulate for you.

 

[Retro Rob]

Just gonna ignore this question, eh? Why should we believe anything you say if you clearly do not understand your own claims?

It's the violation of God's will for man.

But that isn't what you said. Perhaps you should establish the reality of this thing you call "sin" and demonstrate the real effects you believe it has on human biology.

Imprefect is the opposite of perfect. if you need me to "demonstrate" what imperfect is, then you're even more retarded that I initially thought.

That doesn't refute my point, and it isn't something I'll stipulate for you.

you have all the information you need.

Read Genesis chapt 3, or shut up. Please. thanks.