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Here Is What Louisiana Schoolchildren Learn About Evolution

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Rob M. said:
So, are you saying that denying evloution is the same as denying that there are mathematical equations taking place inside a computers processor?
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He's wrong, you can pick and choose just fine, it's not a religion where you have to believe all of it or none of it.

Denying evolution only means that you don't have a proper education, that's all it means.

Everyone with a proper education knows evolution and since it IS observable to anyone who wishes to observe it and we ALL experience its effects at times it doesn't make much sense denying it.

I mean, we have observed one species evolve into another species in real time but creationists are still clinging to the belief that evolution means that some day a monkey will suddenly turn into a homo sapiens or that a crocoduck needs to exist to show a true intermediary fossil between reptiles and birds.
 
Rob M. said:
So, are you saying that denying evloution is the same as denying that there are mathematical equations taking place inside a computers processor?
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Well a CPU is a practical application of science and is not a theory so your comparison is flawed but lets take quantum mechanics that is used inside a cpu (and inside your nostrils to give you a sense of smell).

Denying the theory of evolution is the same as denying the theory of quantum mechanics. They both have mountains of evidence to support them and they both make predictions which can be verified through experiments. Without the theory of evolution a lot of the breakthroughs we made in relation to genetics, dna etc would not have been made.
 
randomrogue said:
I think it's important to not lump everyone in with the religious nutcases. CA for example is not like this at all.
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Then California needs to make more noise.
Because all we get over here is the scary religious crap from the USA.
If there is a voice of reason...it's drowned out by shit like creationism, Tea-party, the covering up for topless statues...and the NOT big seperation between religion and state...ect.
 
randomrogue said:
I think it's important to not lump everyone in with the religious nutcases. CA for example is not like this at all.
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Neither are most places in the US, i think of it more like separate nations like in the EU where there are still nations who are backwards as fuck. Ireland being one of those nations that if it had been a state in the US it would be smack in the bible belt and have mostly inbreds for a population.
 
Timorous said:
Well a CPU is a practical application of science and is not a theory so your comparison is flawed but lets take quantum mechanics that is used inside a cpu (and inside your nostrils to give you a sense of smell).

Denying the theory of evolution is the same as denying the theory of quantum mechanics. They both have mountains of evidence to support them and they both make predictions which can be verified through experiments. Without the theory of evolution a lot of the breakthroughs we made in relation to genetics, dna etc would not have been made.
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Like I said, I am quite comfortable with my stance.

I do appreciate your well thought out explanations and mature discussion. I was asked, so I aswered.
 
Timorous said:
Well a CPU is a practical application of science and is not a theory so your comparison is flawed but lets take quantum mechanics that is used inside a cpu (and inside your nostrils to give you a sense of smell).

Denying the theory of evolution is the same as denying the theory of quantum mechanics. They both have mountains of evidence to support them and they both make predictions which can be verified through experiments. Without the theory of evolution a lot of the breakthroughs we made in relation to genetics, dna etc would not have been made.
Click to expand...

Evolution is more robust than QM has a hope to be in a LONG time (probably centuries) but that doesn't matter because we both see the facts that are behind the theories as the facts that they are and the theories are just our best way of explaining those facts.

Same with gravity, it's a fact but the theory of gravity is known to be flawed in a way that the ToE isn't and it can't really be fixed on it's own, it needs QG to work properly.

Evolution on the other hand is an observed fact and the theory to explain how it happens is extremely robust.

This in no way means that the theory that explains evolution isn't flawed in many areas, it most certainly is and this is why science works the way it does. See, unlike creationism which is set in stone and unchangeable regardless of data the ToE changes with the available data. This doesn't mean that evolution is in question, it just means that we get a better understanding of HOW it happens, not THAT it happens, that evolution occurs is a fact just like gravity.
 
JohnOfSheffield said:
There are several theories on abiogenesis and enough evidence to support almost all of them to call them all validated. It's one of those things in science where the results make little sense but that is mainly because it's not a process one can readily observe in nature.
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Last time I read up on it all we had was a bunch of different hypothesis's on how it could happen and they were in the process of conducting experiments to see if any of those showed promise.

For it to be a theory we would need a substantial body of evidence to support the initial hypothesis and I did not think we had got to that stage as yet, but we were working on it.
 
Rob M. said:
Like I said, I am quite comfortable with my stance.

I do appreciate your well thought out explanations and mature discussion. I was asked, so I aswered.
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Does knowledge change your position or will you just deny it?

As i see it there are two options for you:

1. Research and find the facts from proper sources or ask people who can provide explanations and cite their sources.

2. Deny all knowledge of the known universe and replace it with the musings of ancient goat herders thoughts of our universe.
 
JohnOfSheffield said:
Evolution is more robust than QM has a hope to be in a LONG time (probably centuries) but that doesn't matter because we both see the facts that are behind the theories as the facts that they are and the theories are just our best way of explaining those facts.

Same with gravity, it's a fact but the theory of gravity is known to be flawed in a way that the ToE isn't and it can't really be fixed on it's own, it needs QG to work properly.

Evolution on the other hand is an observed fact and the theory to explain how it happens is extremely robust.

This in no way means that the theory that explains evolution isn't flawed in many areas, it most certainly is and this is why science works the way it does. See, unlike creationism which is set in stone and unchangeable regardless of data the ToE changes with the available data. This doesn't mean that evolution is in question, it just means that we get a better understanding of HOW it happens, not THAT it happens, that evolution occurs is a fact just like gravity.
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Well evolution is probably the most robust theory that we have and I have made that same point several times and even used gravity as a great example of a fact that we know happens with a theory that is pretty ropey, especially compared to evolution.
 
In defense of the US we aren't the only developed country where ignorance is common. Creationism may not be as popular in Western Europe but there's plenty of people who buy into equally unscientific horseshit like homeopathy, reiki, vaccine-autism links, etc.
 
Timorous said:
Last time I read up on it all we had was a bunch of different hypothesis's on how it could happen and they were in the process of conducting experiments to see if any of those showed promise.

For it to be a theory we would need a substantial body of evidence to support the initial hypothesis and I did not think we had got to that stage as yet, but we were working on it.
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Aye, i misspoke when i said theories, i should have said hypotheses (plural of hypothesis).

The problem is that the starting point and end point are known but the intermediary points are not known and cannot be observed other than through experimentation (got a billion years to spare?) so all of them are valid in that they all can take the starting point and produce (via known processes that cannot be tested directly) the end point but they are not all right.

There is only one experiment that i'm aware of and it doesn't really answer much either.
 
ichy said:
In defense of the US we aren't the only developed country where ignorance is common. Creationism may not be as popular in Western Europe but there's plenty of people who buy into equally unscientific horseshit like homeopathy, reiki, vaccine-autism links, etc.
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Anti-vaccers are comitting child abuse. Homeopaths and other 'alternative medicine' practitioners are killing people and should be in prison. This irrational thinking is harmful.
 
Even if you use intelligent design as a model for the origin of life you debunk major religions.

The bible for example explains creation in fairly straightforward way. and it's wronger than the wrongiest wrong.

Whether you subscribe to intelligent design or evolution it doesn't matter because both exposé religion as the farce it is.
 
ichy said:
In defense of the US we aren't the only developed country where ignorance is common. Creationism may not be as popular in Western Europe but there's plenty of people who buy into equally unscientific horseshit like homeopathy, reiki, vaccine-autism links, etc.
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But you are an anomaly in the western world.
The level of religion in the US is not like in the other developed countries...but more like a 3. world nation.
 
JohnOfSheffield said:
Does knowledge change your position or will you just deny it?

As i see it there are two options for you:

1. Research and find the facts from proper sources or ask people who can provide explanations and cite their sources.

2. Deny all knowledge of the known universe and replace it with the musings of ancient goat herders thoughts of our universe.
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Pick one, like it really matters anyway.....

But you still deny facts, based on your superstion...right?
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Are you trying to spell Superstition?

Try again....
 
Lonbjerg said:
I guess I hit a nerve...look at the baffled religious responses (trying to make a deperate stance that I must be mistaken):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relationship_between_religion_and_science

It's so public that is even on wiki, this is the part you need to look at, relgious nutters:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relati...cience#Studies_of_scientists.27_belief_in_God
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Hit a nerve? Desperate? Baffled? Seriously? We aren't the ones pounding the table with preconceived notions here. Open your mind. You are so keen to believe that there is conflict between God and the scientific method that you are blind to the nature of both. What a small world you must live in.
 
ichy said:
In defense of the US we aren't the only developed country where ignorance is common. Creationism may not be as popular in Western Europe but there's plenty of people who buy into equally unscientific horseshit like homeopathy, reiki, vaccine-autism links, etc.
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Apart from Ireland and MAYBE Spain or Portugal, i can't remember, yeah.

Actually, regarding vaccines, we DID have a valid link between the Swine Flu vaccine and narcolepsy (preservative that was never used before nor has it ever been used since, thank you Organon), i've never even heard of vaccine-autism links before and i doubt even a minority of Europeans have.

Homeopathy and crap like that is probably big ONLY in the US, it isn't big in WE, i can tell you that much for a FACT. In fact the only time i've EVER seen a homeopathy supplement being advertised it was in a US bodybuilding magazine.

I don't even know what reiki is and i don't want to ask either.
 
MovingTarget said:
Hit a nerve? Desperate? Baffled? Seriously? We aren't the ones pounding the table with preconceived notions here. Open your mind. You are so keen to believe that there is conflict between God and the scientific method that you are blind to the nature of both. What a small world you must live in.
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There is a conflict...just look in this thread.
People denying facts...due to superstition.

But did you have anything to say to the numbers i linked you?

Or are fallacies you only tool when presented with facts?
 
JohnOfSheffield said:
i've never even heard of vaccine-autism links before and i doubt even a minority of Europeans have.
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Huh? Andrew Wakefield (the liar who started all the MMR vaccine-autism bullshit) was from the UK. Vaccination rates in the UK dropped noticeably after his lies came out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield#Epidemics_and_effects

"Immunization rates in Britain dropped from 92 percent to 73 percent, and were as low as 50 percent in some parts of London. The effect was not nearly as dramatic in the United States, but researchers have estimated that as many as 125,000 US children born in the late 1990s did not get the MMR vaccine because of the Wakefield splash."
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Timorous said:
Homeopaths and other 'alternative medicine' practitioners are killing people and should be in prison. This irrational thinking is harmful.
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The latest way they try to peddle their BS is as "complementary" medicine. People still get real treatments but then they're conned into doing various alternative therapies on the side. Even some hospitals allow that crap because it's another way for them to make money. It's sad.
 
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