Help with weight loss

[SociallyChallenged]

If you are Insulin resistant which most people on western diet are your body is always in fat storage mode(hence why everyone is obese w/ type 2 diabetes) because there is continuously spikes of high blood sugar. To encourage mobilization of fat for energy you need to train your body to become insulin sensitive possible only by reducing blood sugar spikes by controlling carb/sugar intake.

It's called eating carbs from good, natural sources. If you eat a bunch of fruits and veggies and always pair carbs with protein + fat at a meal, are you going to have a large insulin spike? The answer is no, you won't. You know how you become insulin sensitive if you're insulin resistance due to environmental aspects? You exercise. To encourage mobilization of fat for energy, you need to load the muscle and be in a caloric deficit. 40% carbs still enables individuals to very easily lose weight. Most people just don't do it right.

 

[Kipper]

If you are Insulin resistant which most people on western diet are your body is always in fat storage mode(hence why everyone is obese w/ type 2 diabetes) because there is continuously spikes of high blood sugar. To encourage mobilization of fat for energy you need to train your body to become insulin sensitive possible only by reducing blood sugar spikes by controlling carb/sugar intake.

This post makes it a bit too simple. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by 'fat storage mode' but suggesting that insulin resistance leads to overweight is a bit backward. Overweight generally causes insulin resistance, which can eventually result in type II diabetes. High carbohydrate intake has been linked with insulin resistance, but it is hardly the only cause, nor is it clear that it is the only cause.

There are plenty of ways to encourage mobilization of fat. Reducing carbohydrate intake to induce a ketotic state is one of them, exercise is another. But in general, any kind of theoretical calorie deficit is going to result in calories lost, (hopefully) mostly from fat. Reducing your carb intake doesn't so much "train yoru body to become insulin sensitive" as much as it reduces the total amount of insulin your body needs to release to maintain your blood sugar. I am not aware that low-carbohydrate diets actually reverse insulin resistance itself. Weight loss/exercise decreases insulin resistance because even with the same amount of insulin produced by the pancreas there are fewer cells competing for it, and exercise increases the number of receptors expressed.

 

[spamsk8r]

This post makes it a bit too simple. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by 'fat storage mode' but suggesting that insulin resistance leads to overweight is a bit backward. Overweight generally causes insulin resistance, which can eventually result in type II diabetes. High carbohydrate intake has been linked with insulin resistance, but it is hardly the only cause, nor is it clear that it is the only cause.

There are plenty of ways to encourage mobilization of fat. Reducing carbohydrate intake to induce a ketotic state is one of them, exercise is another. But in general, any kind of theoretical calorie deficit is going to result in calories lost, (hopefully) mostly from fat. Reducing your carb intake doesn't so much "train yoru body to become insulin sensitive" as much as it reduces the total amount of insulin your body needs to release to maintain your blood sugar. I am not aware that low-carbohydrate diets actually reverse insulin resistance itself. Weight loss/exercise decreases insulin resistance because even with the same amount of insulin produced by the pancreas there are fewer cells competing for it, and exercise increases the number of receptors expressed.

I've seen a ton of information on the Paleo diet which suggests that low(er) carbohydrate diets do reverse insulin resistance, even without exercise. It might have to do with the quality of carbs as well, as without grains, sugar, or potatoes you'd be hard pressed to overconsume a ton of carbs, and natural sources also tend to have a much lower glycemic index/load than refined carbohydrate or starch. Other aspects, such as systemic inflammation, can also affect insulin resistance, which is one of the reasons fish oil is touted as being so beneficial.

 

[Kipper]

It's worth mentioning that protein requirements have a very strong dependence on activity levels and the type of activity you do. How much protein the OP needs will vary dramatically if he is sedentary and does no exercise vs. doing heavy resistance training (as recommended in the fat loss sticky). If it's the latter, studies show benefits for protein intakes as high as 2.2 g/kg. It's certainly on the high end, but not necessarily excessive to the point of ridiculousness. Moreover, protein rich foods typically are more satiating than some types of carbs (such as the highly processed kind), and a higher protein intake does help maintain LBM during weight loss (which should be a goal for just about everyone).

Having said all that, if the OP is like 99% of Americans, and fairly inactive, you're absolutely right and his protein intake is probably sufficient. In that case, his time would be better spent making sure he adheres to the diet and looking at the type of food he eats (ie, avoiding processed crap, eating more veggies, and so on).

Thanks for linking me to the article (although JISSN is pretty questionable in my opinion), but it's not particularly well-written and the 2.2 g/kg figure is pulled from a book. In turn it is quite unclear where those figures are coming from - whether they are well-designed studies, or from anecdotal evidence. At any rate there seems to be a huge variability in the opinions of what protein intake to suggest.

I did find this interesting nugget:
"In fact Tarnopolsky et al. [13] found that protein synthesis increased from low (0.8 g/kg) to moderate (1.4 g/kg) intakes. While there was an 8.6% increase from moderate to high (2.4) protein intakes, these results did not reach significance. The authors suggested that this non significant trend appears to support the suggestion that the real protein requirements of athletes were closer to the 1.8 grams of protein per kg of bodyweight daily."

As I said this is all pointless given that OP in all likelihood is not like the population intended for the knowledge derived from these studies...

 

[Kipper]

I've seen a ton of information on the Paleo diet which suggests that low(er) carbohydrate diets do reverse insulin resistance, even without exercise. It might have to do with the quality of carbs as well, as without grains, sugar, or potatoes you'd be hard pressed to overconsume a ton of carbs, and natural sources also tend to have a much lower glycemic index/load than refined carbohydrate or starch. Other aspects, such as systemic inflammation, can also affect insulin resistance, which is one of the reasons fish oil is touted as being so beneficial.

The Paleo diet (which is essentially a healthy diet with lower carbohydrate content) may help lower blood sugar levels, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is reducing insulin resistance. It may cause a loss of weight, boosting insulin sensitivity, but that doesn't mean that the food was the cause of the increase in sensitivity. Obviously, if you go from a heavily processed, refined, simple sugar-heavy diet to almost no carbs, your glycemic control will improve. Same goes for transitioning to a diet with lower glycemic load (although this is a bit more controversial).

 

[spamsk8r]

The Paleo diet (which is essentially a healthy diet with lower carbohydrate content) may help lower blood sugar levels, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is reducing insulin resistance. It may cause a loss of weight, boosting insulin sensitivity, but that doesn't mean that the food was the cause of the increase in sensitivity. Obviously, if you go from a heavily processed, refined, simple sugar-heavy diet to almost no carbs, your glycemic control will improve. Same goes for transitioning to a diet with lower glycemic load (although this is a bit more controversial).

So you don't believe you can decrease insulin resistance/increase insulin sensitivity via diet only? I would say I've seen some pretty overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

It's called eating carbs from good, natural sources. If you eat a bunch of fruits and veggies and always pair carbs with protein + fat at a meal, are you going to have a large insulin spike? The answer is no, you won't. You know how you become insulin sensitive if you're insulin resistance due to environmental aspects? You exercise. To encourage mobilization of fat for energy, you need to load the muscle and be in a caloric deficit. 40% carbs still enables individuals to very easily lose weight. Most people just don't do it right.

Exactly this what I suggested. If you are only eating fruits and veggies I Doubt you are getting very far above 30% carbs on a daily basis which based on a 2000 calorie diet would be 150g of carbs.

 

[manlymatt83]

It's worth mentioning that protein requirements have a very strong dependence on activity levels and the type of activity you do. How much protein the OP needs will vary dramatically if he is sedentary and does no exercise vs. doing heavy resistance training (as recommended in the fat loss sticky). If it's the latter, studies show benefits for protein intakes as high as 2.2 g/kg. It's certainly on the high end, but not necessarily excessive to the point of ridiculousness. Moreover, protein rich foods typically are more satiating than some types of carbs (such as the highly processed kind), and a higher protein intake does help maintain LBM during weight loss (which should be a goal for just about everyone).

Having said all that, if the OP is like 99% of Americans, and fairly inactive, you're absolutely right and his protein intake is probably sufficient. In that case, his time would be better spent making sure he adheres to the diet and looking at the type of food he eats (ie, avoiding processed crap, eating more veggies, and so on).

I'm not like 99% of Americans. I have run at least 8 miles per week for the past three years, and gone to the gym at least three times. My issue is diet. I eat too much. I'm working on that.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

This post makes it a bit too simple. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by 'fat storage mode' but suggesting that insulin resistance leads to overweight is a bit backward. Overweight generally causes insulin resistance, which can eventually result in type II diabetes. High carbohydrate intake has been linked with insulin resistance, but it is hardly the only cause, nor is it clear that it is the only cause.

There are plenty of ways to encourage mobilization of fat. Reducing carbohydrate intake to induce a ketotic state is one of them, exercise is another.

This assumes that at the time you are exercising your blood sugar is normal. If you have just pounded carbs and go work out. You won't likely be mobilizing much fat.​

But in general, any kind of theoretical calorie deficit is going to result in calories lost, (hopefully) mostly from fat.

-

Yes in theory calories in < calories out should result in weight loss....but...IT DOESN'T. When they measure calories in food they use a bomb calorimeter which is a closed system that effectively burns the food(fuel) at the same rate. The human body isn't a closed system and I wouldn't say everyone burns the food(fuel) at the same constant rate or we wouldn't be having this discussion.
​

Reducing your carb intake doesn't so much "train yoru body to become insulin sensitive" as much as it reduces the total amount of insulin your body needs to release to maintain your blood sugar. I am not aware that low-carbohydrate diets actually reverse insulin resistance itself. Weight loss/exercise decreases insulin resistance because even with the same amount of insulin produced by the pancreas there are fewer cells competing for it, and exercise increases the number of receptors expressed.

Yes and no. People that yo-yo diet are the perfect example... Periods of binging then fasting have devastated their metabolism and insulin response so drastically that it would require a very strict low carb diet to ever recover from their Insulin resistance.​

ddf

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Exactly this what I suggested. If you are only eating fruits and veggies I Doubt you are getting very far above 30% carbs on a daily basis which based on a 2000 calorie diet would be 150g of carbs.

But what active male actually burns 2000 calories? I burnt close to 3500 when active at 150lbs of body weight. 600 calories would be less than 20% of my daily caloric intake. The idea of setting a certain mass of carbs for all individuals is inane. When I burn 3500, I still eat 30-40% of my calories from carbs. That puts me at 1400 calories from carbs (350g), which is over double your recommended amount.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

I'm not like 99% of Americans. I have run at least 8 miles per week for the past three years, and gone to the gym at least three times. My issue is diet. I eat too much. I'm working on that.

running isn't the end all of if you are healthy or fit. Plenty of people go to the gym week after week and are still fat or out of shape.

You want to lose weight so I am assuming you have a gut and probably some moobs or other upper body fat. This is a sure sign of too many carbs.

 

[Kipper]

running isn't the end all of if you are healthy or fit. Plenty of people go to the gym week after week and are still fat or out of shape.

You want to lose weight so I am assuming you have a gut and probably some moobs or other upper body fat. This is a sure sign of too many carbs.

Because as we ALL know, only carbs make you gain weight.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

But what active male actually burns 2000 calories? I burnt close to 3500 when active at 150lbs of body weight. 600 calories would be less than 20&#37; of my daily caloric intake. The idea of setting a certain mass of carbs for all individuals is inane. When I burn 3500, I still eat 30-40% of my calories from carbs. That puts me at 1400 calories from carbs (350g), which is over double your recommended amount.

are you skinny? Good for you if you are, some people genetically are Insulin sensitive and will never stack on pounds from eating carbs. Most Americans do not fall into this category though.

If you are in shape now I would challenge you to cut your carbs down but keep your cal intake the same and see if your performance suffers. Try it out.

 

[Kipper]

So you don't believe you can decrease insulin resistance/increase insulin sensitivity via diet only? I would say I've seen some pretty overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

I've seen some research out there suggesting supplementation of X, Y, or Z may increase insulin sensitivity, whether it actually translates into any clinically significant change is entirely another story. As far as changing macronutrient composition of a diet, will it change your blood glucose? Absolutely. But that doesn't necessarily indicate a shift in underlying insulin sensitivity. Short of changing anything with body composition, I am having a hard time seeing how eating a few less carbs changes any of the underlying insulin resistance.

Please, enlighten me.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Because as we ALL know, only carbs make you gain weight.

barring a genetic disorder I would say nearly 100% of american obesity and type II diabetes is due to over exposure to high glycemic & processed carbohydrates coupled with a sedentary lifestyle.

 

[brikis98]

I've seen some research out there suggesting supplementation of X, Y, or Z may increase insulin sensitivity, whether it actually translates into any clinically significant change is entirely another story. As far as changing macronutrient composition of a diet, will it change your blood glucose? Absolutely. But that doesn't necessarily indicate a shift in underlying insulin sensitivity. Short of changing anything with body composition, I am having a hard time seeing how eating a few less carbs changes any of the underlying insulin resistance.

Please, enlighten me.

Dietary changes can definitely affect insulin resistance. It's not clear whether low carb diets in particular are necessary or if it's just weight loss in general that does it, but it certainly happens.

Effect of a Low-Carbohydrate Diet on Appetite, Blood Glucose Levels, and Insulin Resistance in Obese Patients with Type 2 Diabetes
Latest Findings Suggest Higher-Fat, Lower-Carb Diets Improve Insulin Resistance Sensitivity

 

[brikis98]

Thanks for linking me to the article (although JISSN is pretty questionable in my opinion), but it's not particularly well-written and the 2.2 g/kg figure is pulled from a book. In turn it is quite unclear where those figures are coming from - whether they are well-designed studies, or from anecdotal evidence. At any rate there seems to be a huge variability in the opinions of what protein intake to suggest.

I did find this interesting nugget:
"In fact Tarnopolsky et al. [13] found that protein synthesis increased from low (0.8 g/kg) to moderate (1.4 g/kg) intakes. While there was an 8.6&#37; increase from moderate to high (2.4) protein intakes, these results did not reach significance. The authors suggested that this non significant trend appears to support the suggestion that the real protein requirements of athletes were closer to the 1.8 grams of protein per kg of bodyweight daily."

Yup, there is definitely a lot of variability. There are a bunch of studies referenced in the Protein Paradox and another JISSN article, each one showing somewhat different results. I think it is clear that athletes need significantly more protein than the RDA, with the appropriate amount being somewhere in the 1.4 - 2.5 g/kg range. Doing strength training and trying to lose weight adds further support for needing more protein. Moreover, plenty of studies have shown that high protein intake in and of itself is not dangerous, so erring on the side of "more" isn't necessarily a bad thing. On the other hand, if eating too much protein displaces other important food items (such as fruits and veggies) or results in overeating, it's obviously a problem.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I'll come back and reply here a bit later, but I chuckle when I see that the CFers come together to fight this carb battle. I'll find some research articles, if I can, and show how carb intake can benefit performance on events especially above 30min in length. There is clear evidence out there - I just don't know how my privileges for access to research articles has been affected by having graduated.

Also, as a quick aside to Iceberg's post: why would I want to decrease my carb intake? I get so many vitamins and minerals that it would be silly for me to switch to meats or fats for calories. The cherries, pineapples, blueberries, Tay berries, apples, bananas, broccoli, snap peas, spinach, and beans that I eat for fullness and nutrition are the best sources of everything I need. It would be counterintuitive to do such a thing.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

I'll come back and reply here a bit later, but I chuckle when I see that the CFers come together to fight this carb battle. I'll find some research articles, if I can, and show how carb intake can benefit performance on events especially above 30min in length. There is clear evidence out there - I just don't know how my privileges for access to research articles has been affected by having graduated.

Also, as a quick aside to Iceberg's post: why would I want to decrease my carb intake? I get so many vitamins and minerals that it would be silly for me to switch to meats or fats for calories. The cherries, pineapples, blueberries, Tay berries, apples, bananas, broccoli, snap peas, spinach, and beans that I eat for fullness and nutrition are the best sources of everything I need. It would be counterintuitive to do such a thing.

I chuckle when I see a hard gainer like yourself who has to struggle to keep every pound he gains argue the pro's of a high carb diet to someone who is having trouble losing weight. That is counterPRODUCTIVE. I am well aware that in some instances it is advisable to keep high carb diet. For instance body builders who routinely get down to 3% bf have high carb diet. However body building is not fitness and should not be confused with weight loss methodology.

Also if you believe carb regulation has no correlation then why is it you think the OP can't lose and keep off weight effectively with 50% carb intake?

 

[Kipper]

barring a genetic disorder I would say nearly 100&#37; of american obesity and type II diabetes is due to over exposure to high glycemic & processed carbohydrates coupled with a sedentary lifestyle.

That's a bit of a broad, simplistic claim, don't you think? The food supply has not expanded in ONLY the area of refined carbohydrates. There is more of everything.

I just don't see where you come from this to the more extreme and downright absurd"if you're suffering from a weight problem, the only solution is to cut carbs" school of thought. It's been my experience that low-carb diets are really too radical a change for most people, especially if there is a large carbohydrate component to their cultural way of eating. At the risk of being overly stereotypical, try to get Asians and Hispanics to abandon rice and Italians to abandon pasta.

If you can stick to it, great. The low-carb diet works for you. But there are certainly other options out there that work better for certain people.

Dietary changes can definitely affect insulin resistance. It's not clear whether low carb diets in particular are necessary or if it's just weight loss in general that does it, but it certainly happens.

Effect of a Low-Carbohydrate Diet on Appetite, Blood Glucose Levels, and Insulin Resistance in Obese Patients with Type 2 Diabetes
Latest Findings Suggest Higher-Fat, Lower-Carb Diets Improve Insulin Resistance Sensitivity

Thanks - it's a compelling study, wish there was more out there - but the issue, as always, is will people stick to it? Probably not.

Edit: Took a second look and it's got a flaw or two...for example, diabetic medications were continued through the trial. It would have been nice to be able to tease out the actual action of the diet vs. the improved action of the meds.

 

[Kipper]

I chuckle when I see a hard gainer like yourself who has to struggle to keep every pound he gains argue the pro's of a high carb diet to someone who is having trouble losing weight. That is counterPRODUCTIVE. I am well aware that in some instances it is advisable to keep high carb diet. For instance body builders who routinely get down to 3% bf have high carb diet. However body building is not fitness and should not be confused with weight loss methodology.

Also if you believe carb regulation has no correlation then why is it you think the OP can't lose and keep off weight effectively with 50% carb intake?

I'd suggest you look less at macronutrient ratios and more at the person trying to carry out said diet...there is really no such thing as a "magic diet," it is merely all up to what works best for your own preferences.

Of course, you may believe otherwise because your experience tells you otherwise. But that is your experience. You cannot generalize it to others.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I chuckle when I see a hard gainer like yourself who has to struggle to keep every pound he gains argue the pro's of a high carb diet to someone who is having trouble losing weight. That is counterPRODUCTIVE. I am well aware that in some instances it is advisable to keep high carb diet. For instance body builders who routinely get down to 3&#37; bf have high carb diet. However body building is not fitness and should not be confused with weight loss methodology.

Also if you believe carb regulation has no correlation then why is it you think the OP can't lose and keep off weight effectively with 50% carb intake?

I'm not a hard gainer at all. I gained 20lbs in 10 weeks with no problems. I'm arguing science, not speculation. My personal anthropometrics aren't actually a factor here. I'm making my points based on athletic performance and research. Sure, your friend may run a lot while on a low carb diet, but do the best in the world? Hell no. The body can function without carbs, but it runs much more effectively with them.

I think the OP can't lose due to compensatory drop in BMR or poor adherence. I guarantee the OP isn't a little angel who's rigidly weighing and measuring everything he eats.

 

[KoolDrew]

I always laugh when people seem to think low carb diets seem to offer some sort of magical metabolic advantage when it doesn't. Low carb can increase satiety and can be beneficial at low body fat percentages. That's it.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

I'd suggest you look less at macronutrient ratios and more at the person trying to carry out said diet...there is really no such thing as a "magic diet," it is merely all up to what works best for your own preferences.

Of course, you may believe otherwise because your experience tells you otherwise. But that is your experience. You cannot generalize it to others.

what magic diet did i suggest I said get rid of process foods/sugar/carbs. Eat as much meat/veggies/fruit*/nuts* as you want. Whats so magic about eating unprocessed nutrient rich foods? Sounds like the diet that kept humans alive for thousands of years.

*easy to go overboard on these, should be used sparingly. i.e. no need to eat 8 bananas a day or half pound of nuts.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

I'm not a hard gainer at all. I gained 20lbs in 10 weeks with no problems. I'm arguing science, not speculation. My personal anthropometrics aren't actually a factor here. I'm making my points based on athletic performance and research. Sure, your friend may run a lot while on a low carb diet, but do the best in the world? Hell no. The body can function without carbs, but it runs much more effectively with them.

I think the OP can't lose due to compensatory drop in BMR or poor adherence. I guarantee the OP isn't a little angel who's rigidly weighing and measuring everything he eats.

That is an unrealistic expectation and also unnecessary