Help On New System (754 vs 939)

JuanT · Feb 13, 2005

Hi guys, my last post here was last summer and I decided to not purchase that system to hold out for what I can get now. It paid off, I'm looking at spending the same amount of money for much more.

Here are the two systems, one is an Athlon 754, the other is an Athlon 939 (no intel for me). As you can see, they're basically the same system but with the chips changing sockets and me going with an SLI mobo.

Can someone, briefly for your comfort, please outline any disadvantages of going the PCI-Express SLI route now? Am I shooting myself in the foot for not going the slightly cheaper A754 solution?

THESE ARE IN CANADIAN DOLLARS, ROUGHLY 80% US

754

Antec® Sonata Piano Black Quiet Mid Tower w/ 380W Power Supply, Black $134.99
AMD® Athlon? 64 - 3000 - 512K L2 Cache (Socket 754) Retail Box $189.99
Heat Sink and Fan included with CPU $0.01
Asus® K8N-E Deluxe, Socket 754, NVIDIA® nForce?3-250GB Chipsets w/ 8X AGP (ATX) $149.99
2 x 512Mb DDR SDRAM Ram Module, PC3200 $179.98
200 GB Western Digital® Caviar® SE ATA-100 7200RPM 8Mb 8.9ms OEM $139.99
Panasonic 3½ in (1.44Mb) Floppy Disk Drive, Black $9.99
Leadtek® WinFast® A6600GT/TDH - GeForce? 6600GT GPU w/128Mb DDR3 & 8X AGP TVO Retail Box $299.99
Rockwell 56K Voice/Fax/Modem (PCI) Win $14.99
Sony 16X DVD-ROM Drive OEM, Black $34.99
SoundBlaster Live! 24-bit (OEM) $44.99
On-Board 10/100Mb Lan built-into motherboard $0.01
Samsung DynaFlat? 793DF 17in SVGA 0.20hdp N.I. 1280x1024 MPR-II, Silver $189.99
Altec Lansing® 120 - 2.0 Speakers, Black (Retail Box) $19.99
LG GSA-4163B Dual Layer DVD+/-RW Drive (IDE) OEM, Black $89.99
Regular Price: $1499.88
Best Price: $1486.12

939

Antec® Sonata Piano Black Quiet Mid Tower w/ 380W Power Supply, Black $134.99
AMD® Athlon? 64 - 3000 - 512K L2 Cache (Socket 939) Retail Box $194.99
Heat Sink and Fan included with CPU $0.01
Asus® A8N-SLI Deluxe, Socket 939, NVIDIA nForce®4 SLI? Chipset w/ PCI Express x16 (ATX) $224.99
2 x 512Mb DDR SDRAM Ram Module, PC3200 $179.98
200 GB Western Digital® Caviar® SE ATA-100 7200RPM 8Mb 8.9ms OEM $139.99
Panasonic 3½ in (1.44Mb) Floppy Disk Drive, Black $9.99
Leadtek® WinFast® PX6600 GT TDH Extreme - Geforce? 6600GT GPU w/128Mb DDR3 & PCI Express x16 Retail Box $299.99
Rockwell 56K Voice/Fax/Modem (PCI) Win $14.99
Sony 16X DVD-ROM Drive OEM, Black $34.99
SoundBlaster Live! 24-bit (OEM) $44.99
On-Board 10/100Mb Lan built-into motherboard $0.01
Samsung DynaFlat? 793DF 17in SVGA 0.20hdp N.I. 1280x1024 MPR-II, Silver $189.99
Altec Lansing® 120 - 2.0 Speakers, Black (Retail Box) $19.99
LG GSA-4163B Dual Layer DVD+/-RW Drive (IDE) OEM, Black $89.99
Regular Price: $1579.88
Best Price: $1538.75

These prices are from www.pccanada.com where I've done most of my recent purchases. The price does not include 15% taxes (which su-diddly-ucks).

Gigantopithecus · Feb 13, 2005

If you can afford it, go s939 & pcie sli.
Assuming you need the 56k modem & separate sound card, nice setup!

fstime · Feb 13, 2005

Well even though there is no performance incress with s939, s939 means you can upgrade your cpu later on. For the second rig, I suggest you dump the SLI board if your planning on 2x 6600Gts, its a stupid move, one 6800Gt performs better, dump the soundcard, just use onboard, that isnt exactly the best sound card, replace that dvd burner with a NEC 3500A/3520A.

JuanT · Feb 13, 2005

So... there's no difference at all with using SLI now? I got all giddy with thoughts of 2 6600GTs...

The NEC 3520A is available, same price. Hmm, I'll dump the sound cards as well but the modem stays. Sometimes, the need for it comes up and it's less than 20 bucks. I bought a 33.6k modem for nearly a hundred back in the day.

Should I also go with Dual Channel ram?

ribbon13 · Feb 13, 2005

Yes. That ram is decently priced, why buy an expensive motherboard to cheap out on the ram?

fstime · Feb 13, 2005

Yeah man 2x 6600Gts is stupid, you'd be better off with 1 6800GT.

JuanT · Feb 13, 2005

According to Hard OCP: http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=Njk2LDg=

Under SLI Performance and Value, "Almost across the board, the 6600 GT SLI delivered a better quality gaming experience than did a Radeon X800Pro or a GeForce 6800 GT." Assuming, of course, that '6600 GT SLI' means two as they refer to one 6600 GT SLI as a 'single'.

And another quote, "If you are wondering what a SLI 6600 GT setup can do for you in Half Life 2, it matches or beats a single GeForce 6800 GT. "

I take Hard OCP's articles, like all hardware articles, with half a grain of salt to allow for differences in quality and such but the numbers aren't that far off.

halfadder · Feb 13, 2005

I wouldn't bother with SLI unless I wanted The Ultimate Gaming Experience and used dual 6800's to drive a 23" monitor.

A single 6600 GT is more than enough for the current games. A single 6800 is better yet, but probably overkill for most people.

Dual 6800 would rock the house if you have the cash.

JuanT · Feb 13, 2005

Well, I don't have the cash for a 6800 GT, that's almost double what the 6600 GT costs. The reason I'm considering the PCI-Express and SLI route is for "future proofing". As you can see, it costs me 80 bucks (maybe more, maybe less) to have the ability to buy newer 939 chips later on when they're hopefully much more cheaper as well as grab 6800s when I can. Hell, in 2 years 6800 GTs should be half what they cost right? By then, I may be able to swing two of 'em and maybe upgrade the RAM when I can.

It's a fairly long term investment for me. My current PC is 5 years old.

ribbon13 · Feb 13, 2005

In two years you could grab a dual core Toledo chip too.

fstime · Feb 13, 2005

2x 6600Gts will get out performed by a 6800GT at a higher res with AA, AF.

JuanT · Feb 13, 2005

Yes, but I'm NOT planning on using 2 x 6600GTs. I don't believe I've ever said I was, it's just the card I'll be using for the time being.

Can you point me to where you're getting these numbers? Did the site do a comparison?

ribbon13 · Feb 13, 2005

I beg to differ!

Half life 2
1600x1200 4xAA 8xAF
65.5fps 6800GT
53fps 6600GT SLi
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041222/vga_charts-09.html

JuanT · Feb 13, 2005

According to that, even a single 6600 GT is better than two?

edm · Feb 13, 2005

Originally posted by: JuanT
According to that, even a single 6600 GT is better than two?

Not at higher res or with AA/AF

imported_Computer MAn · Feb 13, 2005

Originally posted by: JuanT
According to that, even a single 6600 GT is better than two?

hes comparing a 6800 to two 6600GT's

JuanT · Feb 13, 2005

Is it even worth it, at this point, to go that SLI route hoping that the cards will mature later on? Or is this poor performance killed it prematurely?

akugami · Feb 14, 2005

I'd go with the socket 939 based system for dual channel memory as well as the fact that 90nm Winchester A64's run cooler. There is also the fact that there is a good chance socket 939 will have dual core chips coming next year to it while it's pretty much guaranteed that socket 754 will not. And if you want to overclock, the lower heat output of the 90nm A64's help you to achieve a highly overclocked but stable running system with only stock cooling.

Another advantage of the S939 board is PCI-X. While there aren't as much PCI Express video cards out now as compared to AGP the landscape is gonna drastically change probably in the beginning of next year since most new mobos will be PCI-X instead of AGP. This ensures that any video card purchase you make in the future is compatible with your mobo. It's very likely that by the end of 2006 that AGP will be relegated to the value and mid range pc's and won't have high end cards coming out for it.

So getting a socket 939 board means that you could save big one year to two year down the line when you decide you want to upgrade certain computer parts. You likely won't need a new mobo and can just plug in a dual core cpu. You won't need to change your RAM. You definitely won't need to change your mobo for the higher end video cards that will be out on the market then which is not a sure thing with AGP at this point.

You're only using a stereo speaker set and they don't seem to be the high quality type. Not saying they're bad but at that price you probably won't notice any sound quality difference between the Sound Blaster Live audio cards and the onboard sound. There is a slight performance hit but with the power of the system you're planning it's nothing you can't afford to lose. Maybe 1-3fps in some games so it's not worth spending nearly $50 for a sound card that will not, when it's all said and done, provide you with higher quality audio. I'd take that extra $50 and apply it towards a Raptor HD for your primary HD where you install the OS, games and other apps while using a secondary 200GB drive for file storage.

I'm not sure how good the DVD burner you chose is. I haven't used it but I highly recommend the NEC 3520A.

Arcanedeath · Feb 14, 2005

Based on just the specs you listed for the 2 rigs I would go w/ Socket 754, the 3000+ on 754 is 200mhz faster than the 939 chip so your actualy getting more performance for less money w/ 754. it may not be as upgradeable but if your starting w/ a 6600GT you should be able to drop in at least a 6800 of some type in the future to double your performance in the video dept and sell the 6600. Also personaly I'd stay away from rockwell modems, if your going to get a winmodem get something w/ a Lucent / agree chipset or a hardware modem. Also ditch the soundcard the onboard sound for either board is as good or better than a soundblaster live.

ComatoseDelirium · Feb 14, 2005

Use 1 6800 GT, or Ultra now, and later add another, oh yeah I would compare those prices, with how much it is to build a computer at NCIX . com one of the best canadian sites to buy from, plus you only get charged PST no GST

*i think you'd get a better deal with them for the same exact shit.*

Ike0069 · Feb 14, 2005

If you're buying a new monitor, go with a 19" CRT, or a 17" LCD. Get the DFI nForce4 non-SLI MB. The money you save put towards the upgraded monitor.
Also, I agree to get rid of the soundcard, as that's just wasted money.

JuanT · Feb 14, 2005

Can't afford a 19" CRT or a 17" LCD.

As for the mobo... I'm not paying all that much for it. The Asus A8V-E is 190 bucks and this is only 30 bucks more at $220. I don't think I can buy an extra 2 inches for my monitor with that money. The next higher up for Samsung at 19" is 100 bucks more at $289.

Now, if I add the savings from the sound card... it's at 75 bucks already. So yes, there we go! That's close enough for me, hehehe.

akugami, thank you very much man. Future upgradability is exactly what I'm looking for here. Now, I gotta find a nice but cheap case and grab a 500W PSU.

Gunnman · Feb 14, 2005

Get the socket 939, you will have CPU upgrade options in the future.

Also, I have 2x6600GT SLI and in the mail are 2x6800Ultra OE.

Let me tell you the 6600GTs are great cards for those of you on a budget, but when you crank AA and AF they loose performance. BigTime!!

At that point the one 6800GT jumps above the 6600GT SLI.

If your an enthusiast, go 6800GT or 6800Ultra.

Check out my main rig.

JuanT · Feb 14, 2005

That's a sweet, sweet rig man.

What else do I need if I get the ASN-SLI board to use SATA?

Gunnman · Feb 14, 2005

Comes with everything you need for SATA a matter of fact the board comes with 8 SATA ports that all can be raided to 0 if you want. So you can have 8x SATA HDD Raid-0

Help On New System (754 vs 939)

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