Personally, I think if the Duke student has a 3.1 and the CSU student had a 4.0 it would be close. The Duke name recognition offsets the GPA.
Personally, I think if the Duke student has a 3.1 and the CSU student had a 4.0 it would be close. The Duke name recognition offsets the GPA.
If you do really well at your current school, then you can still go to a decent graduate school. However, I'm not sure if a 3.5 is considered good for your school or not. If you do OK at Case Western, which is a pretty good school with a solid national reputation to people that have actually heard of universities outside of their own state, then you can go to a good graduate school. I have no idea what the grading is like at Case Western, but sometimes even if you get a 3.0 at a good school, you can still get accepted into a good graduate school.
And if you're a CS major, then GRE scores will probably not offset a poor GPA from a poor school enough. If you can get actual research opportunity at Case Western, then that would be a great experience and help a lot in graduate school applications. It's probably one of the most important factors in graduate school acceptance. Of course if you can get a research opportunity at your current school, then that would be great, too.
And if you're a CS major, then GRE scores will probably not offset a poor GPA from a poor school enough. If you can get actual research opportunity at Case Western, then that would be a great experience and help a lot in graduate school applications. It's probably one of the most important factors in graduate school acceptance. Of course if you can get a research opportunity at your current school, then that would be great, too.
Employers dont look at education with anywhere near as much as people think. That is until job candidates are close and then the employer might look at school\GPA. It certainly wouldnt hurt to have U of C\Harvard on an application though.
It's all in the interview and your ability to sell yourself. Thats why they interview multiple times.
If you're SURE as to what you want to do get into the highest ranked school and get invovled in as many aspects of your major as possible. If you are going to school for a particular job\field the more ammo you can fill a resume with the better off you will be.
It's all in the interview and your ability to sell yourself. Thats why they interview multiple times.
If you're SURE as to what you want to do get into the highest ranked school and get invovled in as many aspects of your major as possible. If you are going to school for a particular job\field the more ammo you can fill a resume with the better off you will be.
Originally posted by: luvly
Oh, sorry, Hergehen! Oops! That is a huge sum difference. For some reason, I thought I read you say somewhere that the difference between the two would be $8K per semester. Now, I see that I had the $80K mixed up.Thanks for the correction.
If you are looking forward to going to Case Western, then two things:
1) Take the offer now. You could offset it by working toward a scholarship in the event that you pursue their grad program. The only question is, would maintaining a good GPA be more difficult as you stated? I don't know about Case Western, so I can't answer. However, if you are convinced that it is likely going to be more difficult and drop your GPA, then go with option 2. (I honestly don't find that difference worth it for undergrad. Check this out, btw, to see what some students are saying about professors in that department: Case Western. Don't put too much weight!)
2) Decline it. Work hard to improve or at least keep your GPA as it is now. Then come back and apply when you're ready for grad program.
One more thing, WinkOsmosis: What makes Ivy League different is that you're competing against students that have been deemed just as smart, if not smarter. (That's another subject, since I know in high school people do cheat and make a high GPA to qualify for Ivy League schools.) It makes the grading system fierce if it isn't an objective subject, such as Mathematics, or if it is graded on the curve. Regular schools also grade on the curve, but you have a better chance if you're competing against average people.
To offset this though, some Ivy League schools do have a grading rule that is soft on students (e.g., Stanford), so no failing; whilst others do not. The students have given too much of their money to be harsh on them. Money speaks! (There was even a time some Ivy League schools just gave Pass/Fail.) It is also not to compromise the reputation of the school. In contrast, regular schools have nothing to lose but much to gain by failing as many students.
Some of these things you said are true, and some are not. Grade inflation has definitely gone down. On average, classes at an Ivy at more difficult than at say a state school. Even the basic math courses (where you should be learning the same things) are more rigorous. And in fact, many people do fail out.
I couldn't disagree more. Like it or not, school matters probably more than people think. Employers are almost forced to screen on schools just due to the sheer number of applicants they may receive (this is assuming you are applying for an "in demand" job). Where I work, we don't even recruit at schools outside the Ivys (we don't even recruit at my old school anymore so I probably wouldn't be able to get a job here if I were applying now).
It also works the opposite. Someone who went to Harvard most likely expects to be paid more so a company can get the same work for less from a graduate of a lesser known school. I see it quite often.
You certainly are right about the insane amount of applicants in a particular field. My sister interviewed for a job the that 500 people applied for the week it was available. It was down to her and another person and the other person was cheaper so my sister was passed over. She ended up finding a job very soon after that she loves.
You certainly are right about the insane amount of applicants in a particular field. My sister interviewed for a job the that 500 people applied for the week it was available. It was down to her and another person and the other person was cheaper so my sister was passed over. She ended up finding a job very soon after that she loves.
Originally posted by: cchen
Originally posted by: luvly
Oh, sorry, Hergehen! Oops! That is a huge sum difference. For some reason, I thought I read you say somewhere that the difference between the two would be $8K per semester. Now, I see that I had the $80K mixed up.
If you are looking forward to going to Case Western, then two things:
1) Take the offer now. You could offset it by working toward a scholarship in the event that you pursue their grad program. The only question is, would maintaining a good GPA be more difficult as you stated? I don't know about Case Western, so I can't answer. However, if you are convinced that it is likely going to be more difficult and drop your GPA, then go with option 2. (I honestly don't find that difference worth it for undergrad. Check this out, btw, to see what some students are saying about professors in that department: Case Western. Don't put too much weight!)
2) Decline it. Work hard to improve or at least keep your GPA as it is now. Then come back and apply when you're ready for grad program.
One more thing, WinkOsmosis: What makes Ivy League different is that you're competing against students that have been deemed just as smart, if not smarter. (That's another subject, since I know in high school people do cheat and make a high GPA to qualify for Ivy League schools.) It makes the grading system fierce if it isn't an objective subject, such as Mathematics, or if it is graded on the curve. Regular schools also grade on the curve, but you have a better chance if you're competing against average people.
To offset this though, some Ivy League schools do have a grading rule that is soft on students (e.g., Stanford), so no failing; whilst others do not. The students have given too much of their money to be harsh on them. Money speaks! (There was even a time some Ivy League schools just gave Pass/Fail.) It is also not to compromise the reputation of the school. In contrast, regular schools have nothing to lose but much to gain by failing as many students.
Some of these things you said are true, and some are not. Grade inflation has definitely gone down. On average, classes at an Ivy at more difficult than at say a state school. Even the basic math courses (where you should be learning the same things) are more rigorous. And in fact, many people do fail out.
People use grade inflation as an excuse to make themselves feel better. Most people that go to Ivy schools are very intelligent (I'm not saying that all intelligent people go to Ivys). They would normally get very good grades anywhere. If they changed the curriculum so that there were F's and D's or whatever, then these people would be getting the equivalent of a PhD from a non-prestigious school. The average student is very intelligent at an Ivy school. Why wouldn't they have good grades?
PowerEngineer
Diamond Member
- Oct 22, 2001
- 3,598
- 774
- 136
You pay $4K/semester to go to Cleveland State? That sounds more like yearly tuition for state schools in the Northwest... I'm also thinking that $24k figure for Case Western must be a year's worth of tuition too. If so (and you're a junior who will graduate next year), then I don't see how the move can increase your debt by $68k! Are you living at home now, and including living costs at Case? Even so, that couldn't add more than $10k.
Putting the arithmetic aside, it might make sense for you to get your undergraduate degree from Case if you think doing so will allow you to command a higher salary right out of school. An addition $5K/year would make the additional $20k debt (my math here) go away pretty fast.
Are you planning to go on to graduate school? If so, is Case the school you want your graduate degree from? If Case is the school, then go for it! If not, then I'd want to know how my graduate "dream" school would weigh undergraduate degrees from CSU compared to Case. Unless that difference was huge, I'd stick it out at CSU. Employers will be looking much more at the school where you got your advanced degree than the one for your undergraduate degree.
One more thought... Colleges tend to attract employers from the state and (to a lesser extent) region they are located in. Where would you really like to live and work?. If your answer is Ohio, then you're set. If it's someplace else, then you should consider transferring or going to graduate school in that state/region.
Good luck!
Putting the arithmetic aside, it might make sense for you to get your undergraduate degree from Case if you think doing so will allow you to command a higher salary right out of school. An addition $5K/year would make the additional $20k debt (my math here) go away pretty fast.
Are you planning to go on to graduate school? If so, is Case the school you want your graduate degree from? If Case is the school, then go for it! If not, then I'd want to know how my graduate "dream" school would weigh undergraduate degrees from CSU compared to Case. Unless that difference was huge, I'd stick it out at CSU. Employers will be looking much more at the school where you got your advanced degree than the one for your undergraduate degree.
One more thought... Colleges tend to attract employers from the state and (to a lesser extent) region they are located in. Where would you really like to live and work?. If your answer is Ohio, then you're set. If it's someplace else, then you should consider transferring or going to graduate school in that state/region.
Good luck!
As a CWRU alumnus I would recommend against it. I felt for the money I paid to go there it just wasn't worth it. If I were you I would seriously consider Ohio State, since it is cheaper.
My main problem with the school was the lack of student morale, the university's unwillingness to be responsive to the student's needs, the lack of name recognition outside the state of Ohio, and living in Cleveland was completely horrible.
As for the degree itself. My friends in CS thought the program was overrated, most got jobs eventually although a few aren't doing what they really want. If you want to work and you're smart you'll get work, regardless of CSU or CWRU on your diploma. To someone in say Chicago, that employer is unlikely to know the difference between the 2 schools. (except they will assume CWRU is a military school ) If you can prove that you know how to code, you'll get ahead either way I think. With less debt would be a good thing.
My main problem with the school was the lack of student morale, the university's unwillingness to be responsive to the student's needs, the lack of name recognition outside the state of Ohio, and living in Cleveland was completely horrible.
As for the degree itself. My friends in CS thought the program was overrated, most got jobs eventually although a few aren't doing what they really want. If you want to work and you're smart you'll get work, regardless of CSU or CWRU on your diploma. To someone in say Chicago, that employer is unlikely to know the difference between the 2 schools. (except they will assume CWRU is a military school
) If you can prove that you know how to code, you'll get ahead either way I think. With less debt would be a good thing.
Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
- 12,505
- 3
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Good grades, placement test scores, and letters of recommendation will mean more than where you went to undergraduate school when it comes to getting into a graduate program. Also the better your gpa and scores are the more and better choices grad schools you will have to choose from.
alot of "harder" schools are known to overinflate their students' gpa... stanford and harvard invluded
No doubt about that. I talked with one of my professors who did his grad work at harvard. Apparently, getting a C there is the same as getting an F anyplace else. The professor is telling you that you do not belong by giving a C. RARELY are Fs and Ds handed out.
Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
- 12,505
- 3
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You can stay where you are and hook up with a professor you like to work on a special project. This will help your CV.
Well, seems after all I'm going to go there, since for my parents it means a lot and I am actually kind of tired of CSU and do not really like it (especially after OU - to which I went for the first year). And going to OSU is not an option for me
the total cost differnence would be: $3k * 4 semesters = $12k and $12k * 4 = $48k , so it's $36k more in loans ... and I already have at least $20k in laons ... so will have to pay off at least $60k
the total cost differnence would be: $3k * 4 semesters = $12k and $12k * 4 = $48k , so it's $36k more in loans ... and I already have at least $20k in laons ... so will have to pay off at least $60k
[CanOworms:] "People use grade inflation as an excuse to make themselves feel better."
How would you know people who say it didn't themselves go to Ivy League schools?
Cchen, I do agree that they tend to do more rigorous study (similar to high school AP courses vs. regular courses). However, it is the same in regular schools . . . some are rigorous and some are not. I always find it odd that the resume of professors at regular schools reads <insert Ivy League school>.
"Well, seems after all I'm going to go there, since for my parents it means a lot and I am actually kind of tired of CSU and do not really like it (especially after OU - to which I went for the first year). And going to OSU is not an option for me"
Hergehen, now that's a red flag. Unless your parents have offered to pay your fees, I think it's silly to go there because they want you to. This is about your own life. They won't be the ones to be paying back years of incurred loans. I think you should have a better reason to go if you do go. Hold yourself accountable by directly making the decision after weighing the benefits and losses.
That's just my opinion, though.
How would you know people who say it didn't themselves go to Ivy League schools?
Cchen, I do agree that they tend to do more rigorous study (similar to high school AP courses vs. regular courses). However, it is the same in regular schools . . . some are rigorous and some are not. I always find it odd that the resume of professors at regular schools reads <insert Ivy League school>.
"Well, seems after all I'm going to go there, since for my parents it means a lot and I am actually kind of tired of CSU and do not really like it (especially after OU - to which I went for the first year). And going to OSU is not an option for me"
Hergehen, now that's a red flag. Unless your parents have offered to pay your fees, I think it's silly to go there because they want you to. This is about your own life. They won't be the ones to be paying back years of incurred loans. I think you should have a better reason to go if you do go. Hold yourself accountable by directly making the decision after weighing the benefits and losses.
That's just my opinion, though.
what was wrong with OU?
and I'd seriously reconsider going to case, see my earlier thread. I was unhappy there during my stay.
and I'd seriously reconsider going to case, see my earlier thread. I was unhappy there during my stay.
well, there are few other reasons: first of all, I consider that school to be good (and that means a lot ...), I intend to go abroad for one semester sometime and CWRU has that program.
I transferred from OU, b/c I hate living in dorms and you have to live there for first 2 years , though I loved OU.
I don't think I would be able to transfer anywhere else, since I have too much credits already (this was my last chance of transferring to CWRU, after this semester (that just ended) I would have not be able to apply there)
I transferred from OU, b/c I hate living in dorms and you have to live there for first 2 years
, though I loved OU. I don't think I would be able to transfer anywhere else, since I have too much credits already (this was my last chance of transferring to CWRU, after this semester (that just ended) I would have not be able to apply there)
Depends what your goals in life are. Co.'s only care about where you got your degree for about 2-3 years after graduation...after that, it's all about what you can actually do.
Grad school's look at the univ. name on your diploma but they look at your GPA and your class rank not ot mention your GRE scores and prof. evals, etc.
80k of debt will stay with you for a long, long time.
Grad school's look at the univ. name on your diploma but they look at your GPA and your class rank not ot mention your GRE scores and prof. evals, etc.
80k of debt will stay with you for a long, long time.
silverpig
Lifer
- Jul 29, 2001
- 27,703
- 12
- 81
Uh, it's true. I have a friend who got into harvard about 8 years ago. He's from Canada (like me) so his first year cost his family a grand total of $150K cdn (tuition, books, rent, food, et al.). He had a great GPA going in. He did very well in his first year and subsequently got scholarships for his next three years which covered his costs, plus recouped his expense of first year; he got his education for free. He graduated top of his class 4 years ago I think in pre-med with a 98-99% average. He said that it's hard to get in, it's fairly difficult the first year, but after that they take care of you for sure. It was so easy to do well that even people that barely tried still made out with a B average.
After graduating he could have gone to any med school in the world practically. Guess which one he chose? The University of British Columbia right here in town. I asked him why and he replied: "Because it's honestly just as good. The good doctors are good people who know what they're doing; going to an expensive school doesn't make you a good doctor."
"/rolls on the floor laughing"
LOL! Damn, I just knew someone would pick on that! I should have just added more qualifiers, so it wouldn't happen. Now I'll do it: Don't be secretive about a discussion you choose to bring to the forum, and you want productive responses and solutions to, especially if the omitted information is critical. (Better?)
Hubris, do you have something to contribute to the subject? I'm sure the original poster still appreciates inputs.
Fine then, Hergehen, if you do have your own convincing reasons. Here's one thing I should mention that you may not have thought about: Adaptation [to your environment]. Sometimes it could be an issue, especially when it's your last year of schooling. Hope you have a good experience!
LOL! Damn, I just knew someone would pick on that! I should have just added more qualifiers, so it wouldn't happen.
Now I'll do it: Don't be secretive about a discussion you choose to bring to the forum, and you want productive responses and solutions to, especially if the omitted information is critical. (Better?)Hubris, do you have something to contribute to the subject? I'm sure the original poster still appreciates inputs.
Fine then, Hergehen, if you do have your own convincing reasons. Here's one thing I should mention that you may not have thought about: Adaptation [to your environment]. Sometimes it could be an issue, especially when it's your last year of schooling. Hope you have a good experience!
Apply for Financial Aid. On average, it makes tuition go from ~25K to like ~7K at most schools. If you don't get FinAid, stay put is what I'd say.
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