Help me assemble a $2k home theatre system

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: sygyzy
YOyoYOhowsDAjello - Thanks for the link. It seems the overwhelming consensus is that the 1014 is the better choice over the AVR325. But what about the 425? or 625? I think the price difference between the 1015 and 1014 is small enough that if I went the Pioneer route, I'd go for the 1015. Another big debate is between the Onkyo 602 and the 1014/1015 it seems as indicated by http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/message...58105&highlight_key=y&keyword1=pioneer">this thread</a>. What do you guys think about Onkyo? I am really looking at things in the 400-700 range. It's easier to make comparisons when you are comparing the same range.

So I think that includes Onkyo 602, HK 425, 625, Denon 2805, and Pioneer 1014/1015, right?

To clarify: you originally were leaning towards the Axioms but since it has the most disfavorable reviews, you were pretty much set on going with the Ascends. Then the Rockets came along? So if it weren't for the rockets, you were going to go with the Ascends, despite the Axioms being your initial choice?

Thanks for the info regarding the Paradigms. The Studio 40's are a step up from the 20's (right?) and if the Ascends outperform them, then that is all I need to eliminate them from the running.

Thanks so much for the links. The extra bit of time you spend in your posts really helps me figure this all out.

Still having a tough time deciding between all of this. I have a handful of choices for speakers (well mostly Axiom or Ascends), the subs (HSU vs SVS) and receivers.

Unless you need 3 component inputs, I think saving the money and getting the 1014 would be a good pick, but that's just me
Maybe you should call your local Best Buys and see if they have some floor models left :Q

Note that my thread was about the 325 and not the 335 in case you didn't notice.

The 1014/1015 are very powerful units (really put out 100watts+ per channel)

The Pioneers will have auto equalization setup like the HKs would too.

Your Onkyo link wasn't working for me.

I think all the receivers you mentioned would be very solid options.

A lot of people who have Ascend speakers have mentioned how well they pair with HK receivers for great sound. I didn't come out with other suggestions initially because I think an HK would be a great choice for an Ascend combo.

I really haven't heard many brands of receivers so I wouldn't want to appear like I could give you personal advice on this. Everything I've read over at AVSforum and hometheaterforum though would indicate that any of those would make great choices.

For the clarification...
For about the past 8 months I thought that if I ever was looking to get some new speakers, I was going to get an Ascend Acoustics set. (Since I kept reading about how great they were for the money and couldn't find any dirt on them to make me think twice).
So, after months of waiting for Fluance to come out with a new center channel (which they still haven't), I started thinking about getting a new center channel from a company that I would someday want to build a whole system around.
My initial thought was to get an Ascend 340 and keep using the Fluance speakers for the rest of the system.
So, a couple weeks passed and I talked myself into just going ahead and paying for a whole new set of 5.0 speakers. Again, my initial thought was Ascend, but I thought I'd look around at the other brands I had read so much about on forums.
Axiom was my first thought and I looked into what kind of system would be comparable in price to the Ascend system I was thinking about.
Over the next few days I added Onix Rockets, Swan, and B&W to my list of brands to look into.

So, I spent several hours looking at professional and user reviews of the options from different manufactureres.

I did Ascend first since I already had a pretty good idea of what to expect. Seemed like an excellent option.

I moved on to Axiom and got a bit worried when I saw several people not liking the tweeters on them.
I really wanted to order speakers online because it seemed you got a lot more bang for your buck that way, but as you mentioned, shipping speakers back seems like quite a hassle.
The negative comments on the Axioms (although as I've mentioned, overwhelmingly they were positive comments) made me want to hear them for myself before considering ordering them.

Then I moved on to Onix Rockets and Raiden256 made a thread for me over at AV123 to audition them.
I have that thread linked to in my speaker thread.
Althought it was well above my original budget, the rocket ultra 550 deal seemed like an awesome choice. AV123 has deals from time to time where you basically pay for a 3.0 system and get the surrounds for free. Basically it was like paying for a bigfoot center and a pair of 550s and getting a second pair of 550s for free.

So, seemed like a good deal.

I read some more about Ascend vs Rockets and the 550s vs the 340s seemed like a close call.
All signs pointed to the RSC200 center channel from the Rockets as being a nicer center channel than the 340 though.
Since my initial quest was for a better center channel, having an awesome $600 center channel appealed to me.

I e-mailed AV123 and Ascend a bunch with different questions I had. They were both very very helpful. I don't remember the number of messages I sent off the top of my head, but it was somewhere in the neighborhood of 30.

I set up and audition of the Rockets with a guy in the Milwaukee area (MikeD) and listened to them.
They sounded great to me and nicer than the speakers I had auditioned earlier at a local audio store (some Monitor Audio and Klipsch).

I pretty much fell in love with the Rocket real wood veneer too. Since Ascend was my initial thought, you can probably tell that I wasn't buying speakers to look pretty, but once I saw the Rockets I changed my mind.

I spent a couple days thinking about a 5.0 Ascend 340 system vs the Onix Rockets Ultra HT trying to decide if it was worth the extra money and I ended up going with the Rockets.


Yeah, the Studio 40s are a step up from the 20s.
40s retail for $1200/pair and 20s retail for $800/pair.
Price List

Going up past the Studio 40s is mainly better bass response if I remember correctly. With better bass than the 340s, I saw the Rocket 550s being compared to the Studio60s more often than not (Even the studio 100s at times).

From what I've read, Rockets, Paradigm Studio, and Ascends are all pretty similar sounding in the great scheme of things.

The big difference from Paradigm is the price
A good deal of the cost (perhapse 50%) is the markup to keep the retail outlet making a profit.

I think picking out a receiver was the toughest thing of the choices I've made. Good luck!

I think it's going to be hard to go wrong with any of these options you're considering :thumbsup:

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: sygyzy
My God. The 1015 has everything going for it. It has upconversion, 3 component inputs, inputs through the front, and 120W per channel for $449 with free Fed-Ex 3 day from One Call. What am I missing here? Comparable HK would be the 625 for $700. What is going on?

I think the 1014 was pretty much the consensus for "receiver deal of the year" last year on AVSforum.

You get a lot for your money from Pioneer.

The main comments I saw in favor of my HK over my Pioneer was that it sounded a little nicer for music.
The 1015 would make a great HT receiver afaik (owning a 1014 and all).
I'm very happy with the 1014 for music too.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: funboy42

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: funboy42
Ok you win

So, still going to get the z-5500s for your own system, or are you going to be looking into something better?

(the real test if I won)

Hell no I am a cheap skate that likes to get alot for my money so I am still sticking with the Logitech z5500's. I cant see how spending $1700 more will give me $1700 more worth in sound to want to make me go DAMN I need to spend all that. I have the money now to afford more but I still wont do it.

Maybe ONLY maybe if it did me some sexual favors for spending that much more for it but that wont happen. Will it?

I haven't really noticed an increase in sex from my gf after getting my speakers.

In fact I'm barely going to see her all week
(I work at the zoo from 5:30am to 1:30pm and she works at the zoo from 2pm to 10pm this week). We passed each other coming from / going to work today.

Diminishing returns definately applies to speakers. I definately wouldn't call a $2000 speaker set 7 times better sounding than z-5500s, but if you have the money and it's somthing you're going to use a lot, then I think it's totally worth it to get something better.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: sygyzy
My God. The 1015 has everything going for it. It has upconversion, 3 component inputs, inputs through the front, and 120W per channel for $449 with free Fed-Ex 3 day from One Call. What am I missing here? Comparable HK would be the 625 for $700. What is going on?

People have said that that receiver is the same as the 52tx. A very pricey receiver. Personally, I along with some others, don't believe this whatsoever. There has not been any tests to test the 1014 or 1015 for REAL power output. People just assume it has the same amp section as the 52tx. Personally I don't think a few features make all the difference between a receiver that costs over $1000 to one that costs $400.

With the advent of the problems with power surges killing 1014's I think that this might be something that shows that maybe my opinion might be right. A company simply cannot put out a receiver that is the SAME(at least in the most expensive section) as a much higher class receiver but charge a low price. That wouldn't be smart buisness.

Just my opinion though.

If you ask on AVS or HTF you will see most people recommend either HK or Denon when the choice is put out there, and I think the reason is simple. Quality.

Not saying the Pioneer is bad, but I don't think its up to the level of quality of a 435 or 635.

Plus I think the Pioneer is uber fugly lol.

If you like the sound of kilpsch speakers you would definitely like the Axioms. They use metal dome tweeters so they do tend to be "brighter" but then again, the HK is supposed to be "warmer" so they might balance out to a pretty neutral sound.

You can't go wrong with Axiom because they offer a trial period where you can try them in home. Not sure how long its for but they do have quite the following. If you read any professional review of them you will see that most all conclude that they have no right to sound as good as they do for the money.

But in the end, its your speakers. As long as your happy, you made the right choice. Whats right for me or Jello might not be right for you(I don't own the axioms however, I did consider them at one point before deciding to learn to make my own). Although I bet you any of these options will blow you away.

BTW most agree that the Auto setup and EQ of the HK is superior to Denon's and Pioneers equivalent offerings.

If you have any more questions, again feel free to follow up. My previous post was short because I was at work again

Note: The HK 435 and 635 have 3 component ins, and inputs in the front.

 

[apac]

I love my klipsch reference series, but its about $3k for a full system.

 

[MustISO]

I'd like to try some of the Klipsch RF-35's at home to see how they are. When I've listened to them at the store I didn't like them.

 

[apac]

Originally posted by: MustISO
I'd like to try some of the Klipsch RF-35's at home to see how they are. When I've listened to them at the store I didn't like them.

They definitely need to be broken in if you listened to brand new ones at the store.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: sygyzy
My God. The 1015 has everything going for it. It has upconversion, 3 component inputs, inputs through the front, and 120W per channel for $449 with free Fed-Ex 3 day from One Call. What am I missing here? Comparable HK would be the 625 for $700. What is going on?

I think the 1014 was pretty much the consensus for "receiver deal of the year" last year on AVSforum.

You get a lot for your money from Pioneer.

The main comments I saw in favor of my HK over my Pioneer was that it sounded a little nicer for music.
The 1015 would make a great HT receiver afaik (owning a 1014 and all).
I'm very happy with the 1014 for music too.

Yeah, I just think the value you get with the 1014/1015 is very great. It is the receiver I'd pick up if I was gonna get a new one for ~$500.

 

[sygyzy]

rleemhui - Here's what Alan from Axiom said regarding my speaker chioces

The M2i's would tonally be a better match to the M22s than the M3ti's

Why did you choose the M3ti's for the rears? Per his suggestion, the M2i's would actually save me money. Should I still go for the M3ti's?

Edit: LOL I just realized it's a $20 price difference. But if the M2i's are a better match, why bother paying more money and having it be less of a match. Am I missing something here?

If I went for Denon, the only one in their line that is in the price range is the 2805 right? My roommate said he likes the more warm sound of the Denon. He felt the HK sounded metallic and cold. I personally would like accurate reproduction of music. I want to try to eliminate as much "flavor" as possible.

If you like the sound of kilpsch speakers you would definitely like the Axioms.

I don't like Klipsch speakers. I don't dislike them but I have no special love for them.

BTW most agree that the Auto setup and EQ of the HK is superior to Denon's and Pioneers equivalent offerings.

What does Auto Setup and EQ mean in layman's terms?

YOyoYOhowsDAjello Working link for the 1014 vs 602 thread.

Sorry about the typo of the 335 vs 325. My mistake.

Would I notice the power difference between the HK and the Pioneers? The Pioneers are 100-120 vs 85? for the HK's.

If I were to go with Axiom speakers, then would your HK suggestion change? Would the Pioneer be a "bad" match with Ascends?

Can you give me some links to the "bad" comments about the Axioms?

Where can I set up auditions? Is there a website where people volunteer to demo their stuff?

Thanks.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Auto Setup and EQ will adjust the levels of your speakers for equal volume all the way around and will do a little equalizing to help your speakers get a flatter response.

100 vs 85 watts is not a big deal.

It takes like twice the power to go up 3dB I think. With pretty efficient speakers like Ascend, you should be able to make your ears bleed before you max out either receiver.

I'm not going to make any comments about a receiver for Axioms because I haven't really heard any good reasons to buy a specific brand for them and I don't have a whole lot of experience.

I think there were some negative comments on audioreview.

Compare the comments to the Ascend reviews and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Make sure you look around in the different categories of speakers though (M22s are listed as floorstanders etc.)

I set up an audition through audioenvy, but I don't know if Axiom has something similar.

You might want to just go to the Axiom forum and make a thread over there and see if you can find someone in your area.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: sygyzy
rleemhui - Here's what Alan from Axiom said regarding my speaker chioces

The M2i's would tonally be a better match to the M22s than the M3ti's

Why did you choose the M3ti's for the rears? Per his suggestion, the M2i's would actually save me money. Should I still go for the M3ti's?

Edit: LOL I just realized it's a $20 price difference. But if the M2i's are a better match, why bother paying more money and having it be less of a match. Am I missing something here?

If I went for Denon, the only one in their line that is in the price range is the 2805 right? My roommate said he likes the more warm sound of the Denon. He felt the HK sounded metallic and cold. I personally would like accurate reproduction of music. I want to try to eliminate as much "flavor" as possible.

If you like the sound of kilpsch speakers you would definitely like the Axioms.

I don't like Klipsch speakers. I don't dislike them but I have no special love for them.

BTW most agree that the Auto setup and EQ of the HK is superior to Denon's and Pioneers equivalent offerings.

What does Auto Setup and EQ mean in layman's terms?

The M2ti's would be a better "match" because they use the same 5.25 inch driver as that used in the M22ti. However, the M3ti uses a 6.5 inch driver. This speaker is known to have a better base response than both the M22 and M2ti. So I was just trying to give you speakers that would be a good size to be a surround but be able to sound full on their own. Its up to you.

HK is known to be Warm....so I don't know what your friend is talking about. But everyone has tastes in what something should sound like. Just know that people have a tendency to say that anything other that what they have their eyes set on sucks.

Denon Has the 1705 the 1905 the 2105 and th 2805. Which all would be within your price range. They add an EQ at the 2805 I believe. And their autoset(normal calibration) is in everything below that. Besides that between them I think the difference is power and inputs.

Autosetup and EQ is a new feature used in a lot of receivers. They come with a microphone that you place at your listening position and the receiver goes through and sets distance, equilizes the channel volumes and (on some models) uses a parametric EQ to level out the freq. Resp. of your speakers to make them sound better. The HK had a very good one in the 435+635.

Do I think you would be unhappy with the Denon or Pioneer....probably not. No matter what you get chances are you will love it. They all have similar features, just depends which one you trust, and if one has one feature that the others don't. In my case, it will be the EQ that the HK can do that makes me want the 435(the others do it but like I said, people love the HK's auto setup)

Just pick what fits your budget, needs, looks good to you, and a company you trust. Some people will buy nothing but HK, some Denon. Its just the commercial way.

 

[silverpig]

I've liked all the Paradigm stuff I've heard...

 

[PurdueRy]

I just ordered my HK 435 from Jr for 584.99 with free shipping w00t.

Can't wait for it to come, if you are still deciding I will post a little review once I have enough time to play around with its features a bit.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: rleemhui
I just ordered my HK 435 from Jr for 584.99 with free shipping w00t.

Can't wait for it to come, if you are still deciding I will post a little review once I have enough time to play around with its features a bit.

:thumbsup: cool.

My microphone just came for my Pioneer 1014 today (delivered to my gf's house) so I'll actually get at the settings calibrated finally

 

[sygyzy]

YoYo - Did you have to pay for the microphone? It doesn't come with the 1014? If you had to do it again, maybe with a slightly bigger budget, would you still go 1014/1015 or would you go Denon or HK? You can tell I am still indecisive.

340 fronts, 340 center, 170 surrounds, HSU Sub
170 all around, HSU Sub
170 all fronts and surrounds, 340 center, HSU Sub

Axiom set ....

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: sygyzy
YoYo - Did you have to pay for the microphone? It doesn't come with the 1014? If you had to do it again, maybe with a slightly bigger budget, would you still go 1014/1015 or would you go Denon or HK? You can tell I am still indecisive.

340 fronts, 340 center, 170 surrounds, HSU Sub
170 all around, HSU Sub
170 all fronts and surrounds, 340 center, HSU Sub

Axiom set ....

The microphone would have come with it, but I got a floor model for $287 from Best Buy.

The mic was $15 shipped off ebay (kind of a rip off, but not as bad as the $40 Pioneer wanted for it).

If my budget would have gone up to a HK 635 sort of level, I would have gone with that instead, but this was too good of a deal to pass up.

It would probably make more of a difference if you were really into music. For movies I think anything that's been mentioned would be more than enough.

Eventually when I get something new I'm probably going to be looking at separates.

Maybe something like this set that av123 custom designed.

Good luck whatever you pick!

 

[PurdueRy]

Just got my 435 last night. What an Amazing receiver. Such a step up from my entry level Kenwood I use to use. First off, let me say, the thing weighs a ton! We're talking 40 pounds! I t made my old receiver feel like a paper weight.

As is widely agreed upon with HK, it looks great. The silver black combo really matches any systems look.

Hell, even The tuner gets better reception than my old one. The HK seems to have some great noise reduction circuitry.

The EZsetEQ took a few tries to work well, but I think I finally got it to a level that seems good. It would be easier if I knew the exact specs of my speakers(this is why I am working on building my own right now)

While many said the remote sucks...I love it. Its my first experience with a remote this advanced. It quickly learns all my old remotes functions and has advanced customization features.

I gotta get ready for work, but if you have any other questions, I will be happy to answer them.

 

[RollWave]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
I don't know if this would help you at all, but I recently was looking for speakers in the $1000 to $1500 range and made a thread about it.

I ended up spending a bit more than I planned on... but there still might be some helpful stuff in it.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=38&threadid=1607826&enterthread=y

I really think you might be on the right track with your Ascends you mentioned.

Maybe a 170 system with a 340 center, a VTF-2, and get a receiver that's a little cheaper to stay under the $2000 budget (if it goes over, I'm not sure on the pricing).
You might even be able to get a discount on the HK from Ascend if you send them an e-mail asking them... I'm not sure if they do that, but they were amazing with their e-mail responses to my questions.

I also looked into Axiom a good amount too. They would be a great alternative.

I ended up going with Onix Rockets as you can see by my thread.

If this is for mosly HT, you might want to check out the SVS PB10. I researched a lot in the $400 to $500 sub range and specifically the STF-2, VTF-2, and PB10. It seemed like the SVS had an edge in the low end of the frequency response that helped it get the edge in Hometheater performance. Some said the HSU units were better for music though.

A second to the Ascends being the way to go!

 

[sygyzy]

Originally posted by: rleemhui
Just got my 435 last night. What an Amazing receiver. Such a step up from my entry level Kenwood I use to use. First off, let me say, the thing weighs a ton! We're talking 40 pounds! I t made my old receiver feel like a paper weight.

As is widely agreed upon with HK, it looks great. The silver black combo really matches any systems look.

Hell, even The tuner gets better reception than my old one. The HK seems to have some great noise reduction circuitry.

The EZsetEQ took a few tries to work well, but I think I finally got it to a level that seems good. It would be easier if I knew the exact specs of my speakers(this is why I am working on building my own right now)

While many said the remote sucks...I love it. Its my first experience with a remote this advanced. It quickly learns all my old remotes functions and has advanced customization features.

I gotta get ready for work, but if you have any other questions, I will be happy to answer them.

Thanks for the review. Any word on if/when the 435/635's will be revised? I don't want to get a receiver and have them come out with a new one a month later.

 

[PurdueRy]

probably this fall...but receivers don't change much. You might see 5 watts more power....no new sound formats or anything have come out.

BTW you were right all composite and S-video connections can be sent out 1 S-video cable. So you wouldn't need a composite cable going to your TV

 

[sygyzy]

And to be clear, I am understand this correctly -

If you have a bunch of devices hooked up to your receiver (s-video, component, composite) and you have a component and a svideo to your display, the receiver will automatically know which signal to send where? That is, if you plug in your Nintendo with composite, it will auto-route it to the svideo out?

 

[PurdueRy]

all you have to do is plug it into one, tell it what audio input to use with it(analog or a digital) and select that input on the receiver

 

[bob4432]

maybe paradigm center/surrounds and a velodyne or sunfire sub? i have a room with about the same dimensions as you and have the denon 1803 and a set of the Mirage Speakers and this Sub and i can easily hit over 100db without any distortion and be crystal clear with excellent separation. i also paid less than $1000 for the entire setup so you can't beat that. when i upgrade i will probably go with a set of paradigms center/surrounds with atleast 4" mids and then a sub that is 10" velodying or sunfire - like the atom series. excellent products

 

[sygyzy]

What Paradigm's specifically though? Paradigm's are so expensive!

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: sygyzy
What Paradigm's specifically though? Paradigm's are so expensive!

The studio series have a better build quality than the Ascend speakers. I've never heard the Ascends though, so I'd like to see some links that say they compare to the 40's.

You should take a listen to the studio 20. I was going to get the 40's, I actually got them, and took them home. I didn't like the sound with them set to large though. It was just too much bass when used with the VTF-2 sub. I was quite happy when I had them set small, but then I started thinking, why not just get the 20's, so I did. I've been quite happy since. This is in a room about 15' x 21'. What are your room dimensions?