Help finding a new thermostat

[Homerboy]

I'm looking to upgrade/replace our existing thermostat that has seen better days (decades). It like to get something that's wifi connected, programmable etc. Though I don't need anything crazy either.

I'm not sure how to tell what's compatible though especially since we have the old April Aire humidifier too.

Any help or suggestions?

Thanks!

 

[bbhaag]

Alright first question is does your local utility company offer a rebate program for installing a smart thermostat? If they do and you plan on taking advantage of the program you might want to take a quick look at their approved thermostat list before you buy. Around here my utility company offers a $100 rebate per thermostat for up to two thermostats per household. I have two thermostats so I was able to save $200 last fall when I upgraded ours.
Essentially paying $40 for the upstairs Honeywell unit and $80 for the main floor Nest unit. A significant savings.


Now that that is out of the way it is hard to tell from your picture but it appears there are four wires currently connected to your thermostat. Do you know if there are more wires available behind the face plate that are not in use? It has been my experience that when installing a new smart thermostat you really need a fifth wire in order for them to work properly.

If you are looking a simple thermostat with basic smart functionality the Honeywell Home RTH9585WF1004 is a good option. It also has the ability to run your humidifier but ONLY from the app NOT from the unit itself. I've been using this unit since last fall for the upstairs HVAC system and it has worked really well but just remember you NEED a fifth wire in order for it to work properly.

 

[Homerboy]

Alright first question is does your local utility company offer a rebate program for installing a smart thermostat? If they do and you plan on taking advantage of the program you might want to take a quick look at their approved thermostat list before you buy. Around here my utility company offers a $100 rebate per thermostat for up to two thermostats per household. I have two thermostats so I was able to save $200 last fall when I upgraded ours.
Essentially paying $40 for the upstairs Honeywell unit and $80 for the main floor Nest unit. A significant savings.


Now that that is out of the way it is hard to tell from your picture but it appears there are four wires currently connected to your thermostat. Do you know if there are more wires available behind the face plate that are not in use? It has been my experience that when installing a new smart thermostat you really need a fifth wire in order for them to work properly.

If you are looking a simple thermostat with basic smart functionality the Honeywell Home RTH9585WF1004 is a good option. It also has the ability to run your humidifier but ONLY from the app NOT from the unit itself. I've been using this unit since last fall for the upstairs HVAC system and it has worked really well but just remember you NEED a fifth wire in order for it to work properly.

Yeah that's a horrible picture. Sorry. I took it quickly as I was running out the door this morning. I think it's only 4 wires, but I can't be sure. I will recheck when I get home tonight.
Good call on the rebate. Didn't think of that. I will check with We-Energies today.

 

[Homerboy]

@bbhaag is the 5th wire you mention what is referred to as the "C-Wire"? I think this is for powering the unit? If so, I doubt my current one has the 5th wire as it's battery powered.

 

[Homerboy]

Seems this list may be for me:

No C wire? These smart thermostats bypass the usual power requirement

If you're going from an older thermostat to a new smart one, you may find that your system is without a C wire. If that's the case, you can install one, pay to install one, or simply grab one of these smart thermostats that don't even need one.

www.androidcentral.com

 

[bbhaag]

Yes the fifth wire is usually referred to as the C-wire and like you mentioned it is for powering the thermostat all the time not just when the HVAC unit is powered on.

BE VERY careful when you read articles like the one you linked to. My sister, brother and parents had a horrible experience with there Nest thermostats due to only have four wires available. Also the internet is littered with complaints from people about there Nest when only using a four wire setup.
I on the other hand have had a great experience with the Nest but I have 8 wires available and the blue C-wire providing power all the time is what I believe to be the difference maker.

Also I did a little searching and We-energy provides a $50 credit if you decide to use a unit on their approved thermostat list.

 

[Homerboy]

Yes the fifth wire is usually referred to as the C-wire and like you mentioned it is for powering the thermostat all the time not just when the HVAC unit is powered on.

BE VERY careful when you read articles like the one you linked to. My sister, brother and parents had a horrible experience with there Nest thermostats due to only have four wires available. Also the internet is littered with complaints from people about there Nest when only using a four wire setup.
I on the other hand have had a great experience with the Nest but I have 8 wires available and the blue C-wire providing power all the time is what I believe to be the difference maker.

Also I did a little searching and We-energy provides a $50 credit if you decide to use a unit on their approved thermostat list.

Yeah - that list I posted is BS. Half of them still require the alternate power source. Seems finding one that runs COMPLETELY on battery is a needle in a haystack. Maybe my 5th wire is hidden too - just not hooked up. Looks like I have some research to do this weekend.

 

[bbhaag]

Yeah - that list I posted is BS. Half of them still require the alternate power source. Seems finding one that runs COMPLETELY on battery is a needle in a haystack. Maybe my 5th wire is hidden too - just not hooked up. Looks like I have some research to do this weekend.

Yes finding a smart thermo that runs well on four wires or batteries is very hard to find. Honestly I'm not even sure if such a creature exists. That's why I asked in my first post about checking behind the face plate for unused wires.

Ecobee might have an option that would work in your situation but I believe it involves additional wiring and some type of transformer box thing. Not sure but you might look into it.

Another option is running a new wire through the wall. It's not as hard as it sounds believe it or not. In order for me to get the Nest working properly I had to run a new wire. We have a 2-stage heating/cooling heat pump with a gas furnace as the alternative heat source plus a whole house humidifier like you. On the Nest everything needed its own separate wire ran to it before it would function like it is supposed to.

It took my wife and I a couple of hours to fish the new wire through the wall down to the furnace and then out the side of the house to heat pump/ac unit. I even have some extra wire on the spool that I could sell you cheap if you decide to go this route.

 

[Homerboy]

Yes finding a smart thermo that runs well on four wires or batteries is very hard to find. Honestly I'm not even sure if such a creature exists. That's why I asked in my first post about checking behind the face plate for unused wires.

Ecobee might have an option that would work in your situation but I believe it involves additional wiring and some type of transformer box thing. Not sure but you might look into it.

Another option is running a new wire through the wall. It's not as hard as it sounds believe it or not. In order for me to get the Nest working properly I had to run a new wire. We have a 2-stage heating/cooling heat pump with a gas furnace as the alternative heat source plus a whole house humidifier like you. On the Nest everything needed its own separate wire ran to it before it would function like it is supposed to.

It took my wife and I a couple of hours to fish the new wire through the wall down to the furnace and then out the side of the house to heat pump/ac unit. I even have some extra wire on the spool that I could sell you cheap if you decide to go this route.

It actually wouldn't be too hard to run the wire from the wall to the furnace itself. I guess I'd have to do some research and learning on how/where to hook that C Wire up and if my furnace even has the end for it.

 

[bbhaag]

It actually wouldn't be too hard to run the wire from the wall to the furnace itself. I guess I'd have to do some research and learning on how/where to hook that C Wire up and if my furnace even has the end for it.

Finding that info out is really easy. Just take the service panel off your furnace and you will see were the wires from your thermo are connected to the furnace main control board. This is a quick image I grabbed off google. I boxed the wire terminals in blue and the red arrow is what the C-wire terminal will look like on your unit.
I'm not saying this is the exact control board for your furnace but yours will look VERY similar.

 

[bbhaag]

double post

 

[Homerboy]

Finding that info out is really easy. Just take the service panel off your furnace and you will see were the wires from your thermo are connected to the furnace main control board. This is a quick image I grabbed off google. I boxed the wire terminals in blue and the red arrow is what the C-wire terminal will look like on your unit.
I'm not saying this is the exact control board for your furnace but yours will look VERY similar.

ah yeah that's easy as pie.
I will take a look at that tomorrow and see if there's a lead coming off the Com terminal.
If not, I think I can pretty easily run a wire from that to where my thermostat is mounted.
Excellent information! Thanks!

 

[bbhaag]

ah yeah that's easy as pie.
I will take a look at that tomorrow and see if there's a lead coming off the Com terminal.
If not, I think I can pretty easily run a wire from that to where my thermostat is mounted.
Excellent information! Thanks!

Sounds good, let us know what you come up with. A couple of things I forgot to mention before are if you do decide to run a new wire I would highly recommend running the 18/8 wire. Look for 18/8 HVAC wire.
You may not need it now but HVAC systems are only getting more complicated and it might be nice to have the extra wires already in place for future needs.
Like I said I have a ton of extra because I had to buy 250' of it. I'll sell you some cheap.

Also judging from your pictures the humidifier controls look older to. Make sure you check the wiring on it as well. Most new thermostats work with humidifiers but only single wire versions. I know on my Nest the manual specifically mentions only working with single wire units and that if a two wire humidifier is used the Nest is incompatible.

 

[Homerboy]

Honestly I won't need 50ft of wiring. Small (70 year old) house and the thermostat is not far from the furnace - 1 floor and about 15ft over. Not sure if buying from you would be worth our headaches.

Interesting note on the humidifier too. I'm guessing it's going to be 2 wire. It's old.

 

[Homerboy]

Sadly, doesn't look like a C Wire is there. Even more sadly, is upon looking at the wiring, it appears to be a bunch of splices and junk in it and tracing it back is harder than I thought it would be, That being said, I see no control board on my furnace - I think it's too old. I see where the wires from the thermostat go in, but I can't seem to find how to access them INSIDE the furnace to see what runs where.

I think, for now, I may just reserve myself to getting a better/newer programmable and use that until in the future I can have an actual technician come over, rewire it professionally and tell me what's going on.

 

[bbhaag]

Sadly, doesn't look like a C Wire is there. Even more sadly, is upon looking at the wiring, it appears to be a bunch of splices and junk in it and tracing it back is harder than I thought it would be, That being said, I see no control board on my furnace - I think it's too old. I see where the wires from the thermostat go in, but I can't seem to find how to access them INSIDE the furnace to see what runs where.

I think, for now, I may just reserve myself to getting a better/newer programmable and use that until in the future I can have an actual technician come over, rewire it professionally and tell me what's going on.

Well if that is the case then having a professional take a look at it probably isn't a bad idea. I'm not trying to sound mean so don't take this the wrong way but if you are having trouble locating the service panel and removing it then having a pro come out when you are ready to upgrade to a smart thermo is probably best.

As far as a newer non-smart thermostats go I don't have much experience with them so I hate to give you a recommendation. Maybe someone else can jump in and give some input/advice.

I forgot to ask but is this a forced air natural gas furnace? I just assumed it was because you are in Wisconsin but I never did ask.

 

[Homerboy]

Well if that is the case then having a professional take a look at it probably isn't a bad idea. I'm not trying to sound mean so don't take this the wrong way but if you are having trouble locating the service panel and removing it then having a pro come out when you are ready to upgrade to a smart thermo is probably best.

As far as a newer non-smart thermostats go I don't have much experience with them so I hate to give you a recommendation. Maybe someone else can jump in and give some input/advice.

I forgot to ask but is this a forced air natural gas furnace? I just assumed it was because you are in Wisconsin but I never did ask.

Yeah it's forced air natural gas.

I did figure out the access panel and found the terminals. As you can see from these pictures though, it's a mess. The last one is a better picture of the thermostat.
It looks like there's a C Wire on the furnace end, I just need to figure out the where the other end is. It seems to be buried in the wall, which sucks. It might be easier to just run a stand alone wire from end to end.

 

[Homerboy]

Hmmmm.... Now I'm just thinking about dropping all new wires and actually moving the thermostat all together. As you can see it's a few feet away from a window (old, crappy window too that is far from a tight seal). I've never thought this was ideal. Seems it should be more towards the middle of the house in more "center" wall.

Can't imagine running 5 wires is much harder than running 1 new one...

 

[bbhaag]

Yep I would definitely run a new wire. That is what I was referring to from the get go when I said look for 18/8 HVAC wire.
Running it from a different location is doable but could potentially be more difficult. The holes in the drywall and flooring are already drilled so you can use those existing holes to fish the new wire through. If you decide to relocate the thermostat you would be drilling new holes and punching out a new hole in the drywall.

 

[Homerboy]

Yep I would definitely run a new wire. That is what I was referring to from the get go when I said look for 18/8 HVAC wire.
Running it from a different location is doable but could potentially be more difficult. The holes in the drywall and flooring are already drilled so you can use those existing holes to fish the new wire through. If you decide to relocate the thermostat you would be drilling new holes and punching out a new hole in the drywall.

Drywall? I wish. Try slat-wall and plaster
It shouldn't be too bad though, I can drill a big hole up from the basement ceiling. There's some "guides" down there I can follow. I think this is going to be a job for tomorrow. Ge the wire and start drilling. I won't move the old one until I have the new ones runs. Winter is coming!

 

[bbhaag]

Is picture 0445 on the interior or exterior of the furnace?

 

[Homerboy]

Is picture 0445 on the interior or exterior of the furnace?

Its in the lower half, behind the service panel

 

[bbhaag]

Its in the lower half, behind the service panel

Hmm I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around your setup. It's really hard to visualize not being there in person. I would say at this point if you are confident enough in your abilities then running a new wire is the way to go but that is up to you to decide. I'm not sure how much help I can be sitting behind my laptop down here in Peoria. I would hate to see you go down a path that just ends in frustration and an incomplete job.

Do you have forced central air as well or do you just use window units in the summer? Also did you ever find the main control board? Your system is new enough that is should have something similar to what I posted above.

 

[Homerboy]

And I gotta crack open that humidifier control too. See what makes it tick

 

[Homerboy]

Hmm I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around your setup. It's really hard to visualize not being there in person. I would say at this point if you are confident enough in your abilities then running a new wire is the way to go but that is up to you to decide. I'm not sure how much help I can be sitting behind my laptop down here in Peoria. I would hate to see you go down a path that just ends in frustration and an incomplete job.

Do you have forced central air as well or do you just use window units in the summer? Also did you ever find the main control board? Your system is new enough that is should have something similar to what I posted above.

Peoria!? Just hop in your car and drive up! I'll cover the tolls!

Honestly, I don't think this furnace has a circuit board as you showed. It's seems WAY more basic than that. I will get a better picture in a bit. Gotta wrap up some outside stuff before the rain hits.

I mean running 5 wires and literally just matching the ends on the furnace to the thermostat shouldn't be that bad. The humidifier gives me a bigger pause.