Helen Thomas, idiot anti-semite

[Lemon law]

There you go again assigning ownership based on one-sided history rather than military might.

You're so silly.

Seriously, I want MY Djahi lands back damnit! Maybe I should cry to the UN?

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Well the real question is who is being silly here, and methinks its palehorse.

The big and mighty military may win wars, but in general they suck at winning military occupations. We did not learn our lesson in Vietnam and now seem well on the way to relearning it in Afghanistan. As for Iraq, stability there may be a mile wide and no more than a half inch deep.

And now, barring the thread deflections too often used, Israel and the rest of then world is having its nose rubbed in the fact that Israel is losing its occupation of the Palestinian people, because the Israeli strategy cannot work long term.

 

[ProfJohn]

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Well the real question is who is being silly here, and methinks its palehorse.

The big and mighty military may win wars, but in general they suck at winning military occupations. We did not learn our lesson in Vietnam and now seem well on the way to relearning it in Afghanistan. As for Iraq, stability there may be a mile wide and no more than a half inch deep.

And now, barring the thread deflections too often used, Israel and the rest of then world is having its nose rubbed in the fact that Israel is losing its occupation of the Palestinian people, because the Israeli strategy cannot work long term.

How are they losing their occupation???

Egypt may have opened the boarder, but the second rockets start to fall again they will close it and we will be back to where we started.

 

[palehorse]

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Well the real question is who is being silly here, and methinks its palehorse.

The big and mighty military may win wars, but in general they suck at winning military occupations. We did not learn our lesson in Vietnam and now seem well on the way to relearning it in Afghanistan. As for Iraq, stability there may be a mile wide and no more than a half inch deep.

And now, barring the thread deflections too often used, Israel and the rest of then world is having its nose rubbed in the fact that Israel is losing its occupation of the Palestinian people, because the Israeli strategy cannot work long term.

wtf are you going on about!?

I was referring to Israel's military and their right to keep what they have -- by force, if necessary.

AFAIC, Israel could/should have pushed every last Palestinian into Syria a long time ago...

 

[JS80]

While Thomas did suggest the dissolution of Israel, if she actually held bigotry against Jews she surely wouldn't be suggesting Jews of American origin should return to here. Ignoring as much to to slander her as a bigot is absurd. Granted, conflating anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism, even people like myself who support a two-state solution on the basis of international law often get slandered with ridiculous accusations of bigotry.

lol typical liberal bullshit apologism for hating Jews. Anti-Zionism = Anti-Semitism. You can go fuck yourself.

Helen Thomas just revealed to the world what liberals really think. Racist piece of shit anti-Semites. All you liberals can burn in hell.

 

[Red Dawn]

lol typical liberal bullshit apologism for hating Jews. Anti-Zionism = Anti-Semitism. You can go fuck yourself.

So the Jews who are Anti Zionism are also Anti Semites??

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/jews_against_zionism.html

Helen Thomas just revealed to the world what liberals really think. Racist piece of shit anti-Semites. All you liberals can burn in hell.

Wow, a lot of hatred there boy, I suggest some anger management for you.

 

[kylebisme]

Are you naive on how the world works?

I'm aware of how most of the world has changed though history, and the international laws Israel constantly violates while emulating the world's barbaric past.

That is pretty fucking stupid. Especially since a sizeable population of Israel was born in Israel.

I agree, which is why I support a two-state solution on the basis of international law. Unfortunately, Israel has never more than feigned interest in anything of the sort, all the while continuing to expand their conquest of the West Bank.

 

[kylebisme]

So the Jews who are Anti Zionism are also Anti Semites??

Besides, I'm not even particularly anti-Zionist, as while I abhor ethnic-nationalism in general, I support a two-state solution which would allow Zionists to keep their ethnic-nationalist state within their internationally recognized borders.

 

[Siddhartha]

The creation of the modern state of Israel was a mistake which keeps getting more and more expensive. I do not see an easy solution to this problem that avoids genocide of "Palestinians" or a world war.

 

[Genx87]

I'm aware of how most of the world has changed though history, and the international laws Israel constantly violates while emulating the world's barbaric past.


I agree, which is why I support a two-state solution on the basis of international law. Unfortunately, Israel has never more than feigned interest in anything of the sort, all the while continuing to expand their conquest of the West Bank.

The Israeli's were willing to give 98% of the land back but Arafat balked. Clinton discusses his frustration with that in his book.

 

[palehorse]

The creation of the modern state of Israel was a mistake which keeps getting more and more expensive. I do not see an easy solution to this problem that avoids genocide of "Palestinians" or a world war.

Instead of genocide, they should simply escort all Palestinians into Syria where their "loving brothers and sisters" can absorb their population. Then, instead of having borders that look like a Picaso painting, Israel can simply defend its straighter borders against further aggression by other nation-states, if/when they decide to get froggy...

A two-state solution will simply never work. Period.

 

[flavio]

Instead of genocide, they should simply escort all Palestinians into Syria where their "loving brothers and sisters" can absorb their population.

I say they escort all Israelis into Syria.

 

[palehorse]

I say they escort all Israelis into Syria.

that doesn't make any logical sense and you damn well know it. Palestinians in Syria makes sense. Besides, the Palestinians do not have the ability to force such a move, while Israel certainly has it within their capacity to make it happen without breaking much of a sweat.

Why don't you say what you really mean and admit that you'd like to see the Israelis marched the other direction... straight into the sea...?

We both know that coexistence is futile, so why should they continue the charade?

The continued presence of hostile Palestinians within Israeli borders is akin to leaving a Trojan Horse camped in your inner courtyard and building a fence around it. Why not just wheel the fucking thing out the gate, shut the doors, and then defend the bulwarks?

 

[kylebisme]

The Israeli's were willing to give 98% of the land back but Arafat balked. Clinton discusses his frustration with that in his book.

The 98% claim is utter bullshit, but Clinton was likely too busy getting head from Monica Lewinsky to notice. On the other hand, Zbigniew Brzezinski was paying attention.

 

[ProfJohn]

I agree, which is why I support a two-state solution on the basis of international law. Unfortunately, Israel has never more than feigned interest in anything of the sort, all the while continuing to expand their conquest of the West Bank.

You seem to forget that it was the Arab side that stated the 1948 war and it is the Arab/Palestinian side that has as its stated goal the destruction of Israel.

Would you want to make peace with someone whose stated goal is your death?

 

[kylebisme]

You seem to forget that it was the Arab side that stated the 1948 war...

Rather, like the vast majority of the world, I'm not so naive as to believe such bullshit arguments.

 

[werepossum]

The Israeli's were willing to give 98% of the land back but Arafat balked. Clinton discusses his frustration with that in his book.

Yes, but Israel was going to keep all the best places to launch rockets. Murdering Jews is the Palestinians' most sacred right.

 

[kylebisme]

Rather:

The 98% claim is utter bullshit, but Clinton was likely too busy getting head from Monica Lewinsky to notice. On the other hand, Zbigniew Brzezinski was paying attention.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Rather, we've long given all Native Americans US citizenship, while Israel is still colonizing millions of Palestinians' homeland out from under them in denial of their human rights, much like the US did to Native Americans long ago.

Prior to WW2 the area known today as Palestine was under the control of the British, prior to the British it was under the control of the Ottoman Empire, prior to that it was under the control of various other Islamic rulers, Christian crusaders, Romans, Israelites etc... but there was never or ever existed a Palestine nation or people post 1948.

The whole idea of a "Palestine nation and people" is a made up 20th century term that did not exist prior to 1948. Those people and that area of the world if not set aside for the Jews to form their own nation state (which actually once did historically exist in the area) would of been divided amongst Arab states such as Syria, Jordan and Egypt but there would be no Palestine and there would be no Palestinian people because the term is a made up political idea to give be Arabs in the area some hollow claim to that land.

 

[Lemon law]

You seem to forget that it was the Arab side that stated the 1948 war and it is the Arab/Palestinian side that has as its stated goal the destruction of Israel.

Would you want to make peace with someone whose stated goal is your death?

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Non Prof John, with a soft shuffle that would make step and fetch it proud, just unwittingly stated the real root of the mid-east problem.

In 1948, there were basically three main groups.

(1) Israel Jews, who thanks to their terrorist roots against the British mandate, were well armed and organized.

(2) There were surrounding Arab Nationalistic States with standing armies, angry at having Europe's Jewish refugee problem dumped on them. But if we want to find a rascal, it was the surrounding Arab States.

(3) Then there were the indigenous Palestinian and Arab populations of the Former British mandate who called that land the land of their birth and deserved first class citizenship. And as a group, indigenous Arabs and Palestinians were not well armed, were not organized, and by in large did not take up arms against the State of Israel. And in terms of 1948 Israeli land ownership, they owned somewhere between 50-66 % of the land of Israel.

But here comes the swindle Israel wants us all to believe, because Surrounding Arab States
attacked Israel, and were thus the rascals, Israeli is justified in stealing from its indigenous Palestinians and Arabs who could and did nothing to be rascals.

And now to add insult to injury, when Palestinians asked for help from the international community, the international community did nothing. But its still the generic equivalent of the Israeli bank robber saying how god damn dare the bank for asking for us to jail us.
So ever since, the Palestinians have attacked Israel and maybe quite rightly so, as Israeli claims somehow they are the totally innocent victim here.

But in terms of the Palestinian people, maybe after 62 years of ignoring the plight of the Palestinian people, better late than never are realizing they need to find a solution fair to all.

 

[Noobtastic]

helen thomas is a moron.

if she knew anything about israel she'd know the majority of israel's jewish population are decedents of jews expelled from the muslim world.

most of europe's jews were exterminated.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

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(3) Then there were the indigenous Palestinian and Arab populations of the Former British mandate who called that land the land of their birth and deserved first class citizenship. And as a group, indigenous Arabs and Palestinians were not well armed, were not organized, and by in large did not take up arms against the State of Israel. And in terms of 1948 Israeli land ownership, they owned somewhere between 50-66 % of the land of Israel.

But here comes the swindle Israel wants us all to believe, because Surrounding Arab States
attacked Israel, and were thus the rascals, Israeli is justified in stealing from its indigenous Palestinians and Arabs who could and did nothing to be rascals.

And now to add insult to injury, when Palestinians asked for help from the international community, the international community did nothing. But its still the generic equivalent of the Israeli bank robber saying how god damn dare the bank for asking for us to jail us.
So ever since, the Palestinians have attacked Israel and maybe quite rightly so, as Israeli claims somehow they are the totally innocent victim here.

But in terms of the Palestinian people, maybe after 62 years of ignoring the plight of the Palestinian people, better late than never are realizing they need to find a solution fair to all.

"indigenous Palestinian" <------ LoLz !!! Liberals, who needs an a pig on an animal farm when you have liberals to rewrite history.

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.

"For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."


Zahir Muhsein ( PLO commite member in 1977 )

This perfectly explains in hindsight why most Arab nations and groups like Hamas have stubbornly refused to accept Israel as a nation state. How else can you keep this "struggle" ($$$ producer, which is why Arafat died a very rich man with a billion in the bank for his own use) going if you accept that Israel had a more valid claim to the area then the so called mythical "indigenous Palestinians".

 

[Lemon law]

helen thomas is a moron.

if she knew anything about israel she'd know the majority of israel's jewish population are decedents of jews expelled from the muslim world.

most of europe's jews were exterminated.

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How dare you IHV, simply dismiss Helen Thomas views as simply antisemitism?

Its already been established that she is of Lebanese descent. And after Israel's brutal occupation of Lebanon following its civil war, an occupation that was definitive in creating Hezbollah in the process, and after the disproportionate Israeli rape of Lebanon in 2005, you have the unmitigated chutzpah to assume Helen Thomas was not given all kinds of quite rational reasons to hate Israel with a passion.

For what its worth, I have already said the way Helen Thomas stated her views lacked logic, but you, IHV, are a total fool if you do not think a growing number of people are questioning why they should support Israel in its bridge to nowhere piggishness.

 

[Harvey]

Helen Thomas, idiot anti-semite

Your thread title highlights a distinct problem in this discussion. Israel is a nation. It does NOT represent all Jewish people, nor do all Jewish people unequivocally support Israel in everything they do.

Thomas's comments weren't elegant, but, by definition, they were definitely NOT anti-semitic. They were about Israel, not Jews, and she's right. Israel is, in fact, an occupier, and hardly a benevolent one. In their arrogance, they are as much a part of the problem as the dumbest, most violent Palestinians.

This mess will never be settled until saner minds from both sides can shove the assholes aside and figure out how to get beyond their past differences and live as peaceful neighbors.

 

[Noobtastic]

How dare you IHV, simply dismiss Helen Thomas views as simply antisemitism?

did i say antisemitism?

i said she was a moron. helen thomas called for israeli jews to return to europe, but that is impossible since most of israel's jewish population are descedents from those expelled from the arab world.

this is what i said.

Its already been established that she is of Lebanese descent. And after Israel's brutal occupation of Lebanon following its civil war, an occupation that was definitive in creating Hezbollah in the process, and after the disproportionate Israeli rape of Lebanon in 2005, you have the unmitigated chutzpah to assume Helen Thomas was not given all kinds of quite rational reasons to hate Israel with a passion.

lol, brutal occupation.

israel's "occupation" of lebanon after the 1982 lebanon war consisted of 1,000 troops stationed in 15 kilometer strip known as the "security zone."

this was not a "brutal occupation."

the syrian occupation, on the other hand, was extremely brutal which is why most lebanese, or at least the christians, hate syria more than israel.

in fact, once you exclude the shia population, lebanon is one of the most pro-israel countries in the ME. less than 20% of the christians support hezbollah.

Your thread title highlights a distinct problem in this discussion. Israel is a nation. It does NOT represent all Jewish people, nor do all Jewish people unequivocally support Israel in everything they do

no, but israel is the jewish state.

and most die-hard critics of israel have a trouble attacking israel without attacking jewish rights.

because inevitably you align yourself with israel's enemies, who are avid consumers of antisemitism.

no one supports everything israel does, including israelis.

its critics, however - support everything the arabs do, no matter how barbaric, and any sort of debate involving the other side is shunned.

 

[flavio]

that doesn't make any logical sense and you damn well know it. Palestinians in Syria makes sense.

Forcing anyone to leave their home doesn't make any sense.

Besides, the Palestinians do not have the ability to force such a move, while Israel certainly has it within their capacity to make it happen without breaking much of a sweat.

Israel has no authority to force such a move. But the US could force Israel to move without much of a sweat.

Why don't you say what you really mean and admit that you'd like to see the Israelis marched the other direction... straight into the sea...?

I have no such desire. making up crap doesn't help you.

The continued presence of hostile Palestinians within Israeli borders

You mean hostile Israelis in Palestinian borders.