(Heise.de) Nvidia Kepler GPUs are not fully compatible with DirectX 11.1

[ocre]

[pressroom.nvidia.com]

NVIDIA Launches First GeForce GPUs Based on Next-Generation Kepler Architecture.

GeForce GTX 680 for PC Gamers Is Fastest, Most Efficient GPU Ever Built; GeForce GT 640M for Notebooks Puts the "Ultra" in Ultrabooks


http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/...releasejsp=release_157&xhtml=true&prid=865433



http://www.microsofttranslator.com/...t/naytonohjaimet/nvidia-geforce-gtx-680-gk104

my box says dx11 on it. I think they do have support for dx11.1 though it may not all be through hardware.

anyway, this must mean nvidia is pure evil and now that the word is out we can stop them dead in their track.

 

[exar333]

my box says dx11 on it. I think they do have support for dx11.1 though it may not all be through hardware.

anyway, this must mean nvidia is pure evil and now that the word is out we can stop them dead in their track.

This. OP just has an axe to grind.

My 670 very clearly states it is DX 11, not 11.1. Pure FUD.

 

[GotNoRice]

At the same time DX11.1 seems like another useless release much like DX10.1 was.

10.1 might have felt useless at the time, but it's very useful now.

That is because DirectX11 has separate feature levels for DX10 and DX10.1 hardware. A DirectX10.1 card playing a DirectX11 game will make use of the 10.1 feature set, including it's improvements over 10.0.

Similarly, when we eventually move on to DirectX12, I expect that there will be separate feature levels for DirectX11 and 11.1 hardware, allowing DX12 games to take advantage of 11.1 on those cards.

 

[HurleyBird]

Anything they can possibly grasp or think they can grasp.

Nobody thinks that DX11.1 is super important (which would be grasping at straws if they did). The issue is that Nvidia lied again, and it's important to call companies out when they lie to consumers. You already know that though and your effort to frame the discussion is painfully transparent, bordering on a mild form of trolling... but mostly just sad.

This. OP just has an axe to grind.

My 670 very clearly states it is DX 11, not 11.1. Pure FUD.

Nvidia put out a press release stating that Kepler was DX11.1 compliant. It's been linked in this thread. Go back a page and read it.

Similarly, when we eventually move on to DirectX12, I expect that there will be separate feature levels for DirectX11 and 11.1 hardware, allowing DX12 games to take advantage of 11.1 on those cards.

True, and when we move to DX12 I doubt game developers will do flag checking for individual DX11.1 features on previous generation cards.

 

[railven]

Are people REALLY this selective in memory or is it just more fun to create drama (wait I know )

Here guys, just to keep balance:
ATI Sued Over False HDCP Claims

I won't complain, I got a free card out of it

 

[exar333]

Nobody thinks that DX11.1 is super important. The issue is that Nvidia lied again.



Nvidia put out a press release stating that Kepler was DX11.1 compliant. It's been linked in this thread. Go back a page and read it.



True, and when we move to DX12 I doubt game developers will do flag checking for individual DX11.1 features on previous generation cards.

Sorry. I don't purchase press releases, I purchase cards. You go read. Thanks.

 

[Final8ty]

Are people REALLY this selective in memory or is it just more fun to create drama (wait I know )

Here guys, just to keep balance:
ATI Sued Over False HDCP Claims

I won't complain, I got a free card out of it

I remember that and i was looking for it early today to post myself but my goggle search only came up with forum users enquiring.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=a...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

I started to even write my post but because i could not remember or find the source i cancelled.

 

[HurleyBird]

Sorry. I don't purchase press releases, I purchase cards. You go read. Thanks.

You're trying to bait me with a stupid response, aren't you?

Is this really what VCG has come down to?

 

[railven]

I remember that and i was looking for it early today to post myself but my goggle search only came up with forum users enquiring.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=a...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

I started to even write my post but because i could not remember or find the source i cancelled.

I don't even think I had an HDCP compliant monitor when that fiasco happened, and by the time I did - I had a new truly HDCP complaint card.

By the time we get any real DX11.1 games we'll all be using new hardware anyways (we, as in we in this forum, the masses - well they probably won't and they can sue if this really is an issue to them.)

 

[Final8ty]

I don't even think I had an HDCP compliant monitor when that fiasco happened, and by the time I did - I had a new truly HDCP complaint card.

By the time we get any real DX11.1 games we'll all be using new hardware anyways (we, as in we in this forum, the masses - well they probably won't and they can sue if this really is an issue to them.)

That's what ATI was counting on and i would say NV has done the same.

 

[f1sherman]

Are people REALLY this selective in memory or is it just more fun to create drama (wait I know )

Here guys, just to keep balance:
ATI Sued Over False HDCP Claims

I won't complain, I got a free card out of it

Yeah lets keep it balanced LOL. Let see

What happened with AMD and DX11 multithreaded rendering. That was supposed to be one of the hottest things about DX11.

And yet only Civ 5 uses MT rendering. There was some talk about Crysis 2, but apparently Crytek is waiting for AMD.
Is it fair to say AMD is fully DX 11.0 compliant, even if their drivers don't implement full feature set?

Nvidia may be douchbags about 11.1, but it's AMD that's holding us back by not implementing MT rendering.

^_^

 

[Final8ty]

Yeah lets keep it balanced LOL. Let see

What happened with AMD and DX11 multithreaded rendering. That was supposed to be one of the hottest things about DX11.

And yet only Civ 5 uses MT rendering. There was some talk about Crysis 2, but apparently Crytek is waiting for AMD.
Is it fair to say AMD is fully DX 11.0 compliant, even if their drivers don't implement full feature set?

Nvidia may be douchbags about 11.1, but it's AMD that's holding us back by not implementing MT rendering.

^_^

This thread was about GPU DX hardware level features which is a different ballgame to software level when it comes to compliance as one is far easier to correct than the other if the need arises, i can download software updates i cant download hardware and the balance has already been done in that respect.

 

[notty22]

I see the witch-hunters are ignoring the explanations of Kepler actually supporting the hardware calls in question under 3d and not 2d. And that every card sold is labeled as dx11 and it's list of features also reflect that to dispel this 'false adverting' babble.

Another valid question is, what is the #1 troubleshooting advice given to AMD owners having trouble in 2D/ Windows, with FLASH ? Hilariously disable hardware acceleration.

It's not like this has been a short term problem either.

Windows 7: Radeon HD 5000-Series Cards Lack 2D Acceleration

Test 2: Drawing Lines

Surprisingly, the Radeon HD 5870 is simply incapable of rendering hardware-accelerated lines with any reasonable performance.

Most of these hardware acceleration problems have been fixed by software (drivers) by the way.

 

[Final8ty]

I see the witch-hunters are ignoring the explanations of Kepler actually supporting the hardware calls in question under 3d and not 2d. And that every card sold is labeled as dx11 and it's list of features also reflect that to dispel this 'false adverting' babble.

Another valid question is, what is the #1 troubleshooting advice given to AMD owners having trouble in 2D/ Windows, with FLASH ? Hilariously disable hardware acceleration.

It's not like this has been a short term problem either.




Most of these hardware acceleration problems have been fixed by software (drivers) by the way.

Things get even more interesting when the DWM is disabled. Even though no 2D acceleration is possible here, the ATI card jumps into the lead with regard to performance. Compared to Nvidia's GeForce board, running the ATI card with DWM disabled puts it well ahead. Even CorelDraw and AutoCAD run noticeably faster on the Radeon HD 5870 when DWM is turned off. This turns the tables on Nvidia, and contradicts our previous logic and experience benchmarking these GPUs.

Let’s recall: without Aero turned on, the DWM is deactivated, so there’s also no more 2D acceleration, either (this applies equally to Windows 7 as it does to Vista). Because we ran into this error repeatedly on test systems with Radeon HD 5750s and Radeon HD 5870 installed (in two different test configurations), we forcibly deactivated Aero across the board. After this evasive maneuver, these errors no longer appeared. Interestingly, the exact same situation (and remedy) also presented itself to us on a notebook PC with GeForce graphics. Whether this is just a massive coincidence or an indication of a conflict among DWM, drivers, and 2D hardware graphics acceleration, only time will tell.

Our next prime suspects include the relatively low default clock speeds for ATI cards running in 2D mode, or perhaps some issue with an early graphics BIOS. Determining whether these two possible culprits are in cahoots or working independently is something we can establish only through long-term observation, or a definite change in behavior thanks to a new driver version.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/2d-windows-gdi,2539-8.html

And yes both AMD should be held accountable if they don't do things in the DX hardware spec which they initially claim, its not about making excuses for each brand.
But if they can do it faster in software than the competition in hardware then i say well cant really complain.

NV in hardware mode.

AMD software mode.

Personally i don't have an issue with Flash.

 

[SPBHM]

DX11.1 is probably not to important, BUT the trouble is Nvidia basically lied to their customers...

and this talk of supporting the features useful for gaming doesn't sound relevant, the card will be considered DX11, not DX11.1 and games(dx11.1) will ignore the supported features, as far as I know...

 

[HurleyBird]

I see the witch-hunters are ignoring the explanations of Kepler actually supporting the hardware calls in question under 3d and not 2d.

As far as I can tell both Orthogonal Line RenderingMode and UAV in non-pixel-shader stages are 3D functionality, only Target Independent and 16XMSAA Rasterization calls are 2D.

And that every card sold is labeled as dx11 and it's list of features also reflect that to dispel this 'false adverting' babble.

It doesn't matter where they claimed DX11.1 compliance, only that they did claim it.

Another valid question is, what is the #1 troubleshooting advice given to AMD owners having trouble in 2D/ Windows, with FLASH ? Hilariously disable hardware acceleration.

Red herring, thread crapping, and off topic.

 

[notty22]

DX11.1 is probably not to important, BUT the trouble is Nvidia basically lied to their customers...

and this talk of supporting the features useful for gaming doesn't sound relevant, the card will be considered DX11, not DX11.1 and games(dx11.1) will ignore the supported features, as far as I know...

How have they lied? 11.1 is not promoted/printed on any Nvidia product box or feature list at point of sale. Unlike AMD who is proudly promoting 11.1, I would like anyone in layman terms or otherwise to explain what features this .1 is giving me ?

 

[HurleyBird]

How have they lied? 11.1 is not promoted/printed on any Nvidia product box or feature list at point of sale.

Yes, for the last time they lied. They issued a press release claiming DX11.1 compliance, and one of their executives claimed DX11.1 compliance under direct questioning (which probably only came up because of the irregularity between the press release and the product box in the first place). Up until now the tech community has been working under the assumption that Kepler supported DX11.1. Anyone who thinks that not putting DX11.1 on the product box is some kind of get out of jail free card is using fanboy logic of the very lowest order.

 

[sontin]

Yeah lets keep it balanced LOL. Let see

What happened with AMD and DX11 multithreaded rendering. That was supposed to be one of the hottest things about DX11.

And yet only Civ 5 uses MT rendering. There was some talk about Crysis 2, but apparently Crytek is waiting for AMD.
Is it fair to say AMD is fully DX 11.0 compliant, even if their drivers don't implement full feature set?

Nvidia may be douchbags about 11.1, but it's AMD that's holding us back by not implementing MT rendering.

^_^

And don't forget Tessellation: AMD went into the public and called Tessellation as the "hottest new hardware feature of DX11" only to pay their game partners to not put it into games at all after nVidia launched Fermi. That's the reason why we see only PN-Tessellation to make low poly edges more rounded...

So nVidia supports not all 11.1 features? Not a problem, AMD supports only a piece of Tessellation.

 

[HurleyBird]

And don't forget Tessellation: AMD went into the public and called Tessellation as the "hottest new hardware feature of DX11" only to pay their game partners to not put it into games at all after nVidia launched Fermi. That's the reason why we see only PN-Tessellation to make low poly edges more rounded...

So nVidia supports not all 11.1 features? Not a problem, AMD supports only a piece of Tessellation.

You can't actually be serious, can you? There is a very obvious difference between supporting a feature and running it well. Stop crapping in my thread.

 

[sontin]

You can't actually be serious, can you? There is a very obvious difference between supporting a feature and running it well. Stop crapping in my thread.

Sure, because you like AMD more than nVidia so for you it's a "very obvious difference between supporting a feature and running it well".

But it seems for AMD there is no difference:
2009 - Tessellation is the most important DX11 feature
2010 - Went into the public and spread false information about Tessellation and the implementation in HAWX 2. Now AMD is the force behind the nearly non existent of Tessellation besides PN-Tessellation for low poly characters in games.

Why should i care about 11.1 when not even 11.0 get full support from both vendors?

 

[Final8ty]

And don't forget Tessellation: AMD went into the public and called Tessellation as the "hottest new hardware feature of DX11" only to pay their game partners to not put it into games at all after nVidia launched Fermi. That's the reason why we see only PN-Tessellation to make low poly edges more rounded...

So nVidia supports not all 11.1 features? Not a problem, AMD supports only a piece of Tessellation.

Oh really what games did AMD pay not to have Tessellation put in.
And before you tell me its well known and to google i already have and found nothing.

Many AMD titles do have Tessellation and i would take a guess that more AMD titles have Tessellation than NV ones and most after Fermi.

Aliens vs. Predator, Dirt2, Dirt3, Dirt Showdown, Hitman absolution, Dragonage 2, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Call of Pripyat, Total War: Shogun 2, Blacklight Retribution, Nexuiz.

 

[Final8ty]

You can't actually be serious, can you? There is a very obvious difference between supporting a feature and running it well. Stop crapping in my thread.

Exactly.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Hit the damage control button! Send in the drones, change the subject!! . ^_^

Anyway, my understanding is the .1 features are not actually about gaming.

Second, to improve performance when rendering irregular geometry (e.g. geographical borders on a map), we use a new graphics hardware feature called Target Independent Rasterization, or TIR.

TIR enables Direct2D to spend fewer CPU cycles on tessellation, so it can give drawing instructions to the GPU more quickly and efficiently, without sacrificing visual quality. TIR is available in new GPU hardware designed for Windows 8 that supports DirectX 11.1.

Below is a chart showing the performance improvement for rendering anti-aliased geometry from a variety of SVG files on a DirectX 11.1 GPU supporting TIR:

source

 

[Spjut]

Yeah lets keep it balanced LOL. Let see

What happened with AMD and DX11 multithreaded rendering. That was supposed to be one of the hottest things about DX11.

And yet only Civ 5 uses MT rendering. There was some talk about Crysis 2, but apparently Crytek is waiting for AMD.
Is it fair to say AMD is fully DX 11.0 compliant, even if their drivers don't implement full feature set?

Nvidia may be douchbags about 11.1, but it's AMD that's holding us back by not implementing MT rendering.

^_^

Far Cry 3 supports DX11 multithreaded rendering

Apparently though, the current implementation of the multithreaded rendering isn't viable for many use cases.