Heat pipes not containing any fluid?

[thilanliyan]

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.p...article&item=892&num=1

That would be crap if the working fluid was purposely left out in cost-saving measures. I'd want my money back from Thermalright (for my retired Ultra-120) if this turns out to be a consistent problem.

 

[jmmtn4aj]

Frankly what's it matter if all the Ultra-120s are consistently the best CPU coolers? Surely it can be argued that if an Ultra without fluid in the heatpipe performs the same as an Ultra with fluid, then the fluid doesn't really make a difference?

 

[VinDSL]

Bwahahaha!

OMG! Thermalwrong heatpipes don't have any fluid in them! That explains it...

thilan29 for President!!!

 

[Zap]

First, it is nice to see wicking designs in the heatpipes they cut open.

That being said, I don't think they should expect fluid to pour out, let alone be "filled" with fluid. Two reasons. First, if there's no air in there, the liquid can't quite evaporate, can it? Second, try cutting open a damp sponge and see if water pours out. Nope?

Heatpipes require just a little bit of liquid. For the OCZ pipe that actuall had visible liquid, either they got lucky and cut it open right where the liquid happened to pool, or OCZ put too much liquid in it, which can kill performance if there isn't enough air in the pipe for the liquid to be able to evaporate.

Now, for those pipes where air whooshed out, that means some of the liquid was in a vapor state. That increases the pressure inside the sealed pipe, plus is not "visible" liquid.

All said and done, the thing is... does it work? A heatpipe with no liquid of any sort inside will work pretty much like a solid rod, that is it would hardly transfer heat over a few inches.

To test whether your heatpipe heatsink has any liquid in it, pour some boiling water into a bowl. Stand your tower heatpipe heatsink in the bowl so that the base is in the water. The end of the heatpipes should get hot within moments (seconds). If not, then they aren't working right (no liquid in it or has a leak). Note that this effect is even more drastic if there were no fins attached to the heatpipe cooling it off (even passively) even as it is heating up.

 

[VinDSL]

LoL! Hans Christian Andersen...

The Emperor's New Clothes

 

[Mark R]

Just how much fluid did they think they would find?

A typical CPU HSF type heat pipe needs about 100 µl, which is about 1 drop of water. Additionally, the heap pipe should have an efficient wick which adsorbs the water so that no free liquid remains.

 

[Bluefront]

I'm laughing over this one......anybody ever seen freon in a liquid state? Freon is one substance used in heat-pipes. It's only liquid when under pressure. The very instant a heat-pipe is cut open, whatever freon that was in there turns to an invisible gas......and pours out.

There are electronic devices that can detect freon in a gas state......but you're eves can't. In automotive refrigerant systems a green dye is added to the freon...you can see traces of the dye at the point of a leak. Maybe heat-pipe makers should start using dye in their systems.....make us all feel better.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Zap
All said and done, the thing is... does it work? A heatpipe with no liquid of any sort inside will work pretty much like a solid rod, that is it would hardly transfer heat over a few inches.

Actually a SOLID rod would work better than than a rod with nothing but air inside, which is what a heatpipe would be if it had no working fluid in it.

Originally posted by: Bluefront
I'm laughing over this one......anybody ever seen freon in a liquid state? Freon is one substance used in heat-pipes. It's only liquid when under pressure. The very instant a heat-pipe is cut open, whatever freon that was in there turns to an invisible gas......and pours out.

Freon in heat pipes?? That's news for sure. I know it's used in refrigerant systems but I'm pretty sure it's not used in heat pipes. Can you provide a link with any info of freon in computer-related heat pipes? Other than R-11 freon you'd need to go over like 4-5bar pressure to have it as a liquid...and I SERIOUSLY doubt heatpipes are under 4-5 bar pressure.

Heat pipes wouldn't be under lots of pressure and need a LIQUID that vaporizes when heated up (not as a result of pressurizing) and condenses when cooled. The liquid needs to be vapourized because it can carry much more energy than the liquid could (ie. water/steam).

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: thilan29
Freon in heat pipes?? That's news for sure...

Doesn't mean jack either!

Freon is a trademark (Dupont I think) like Kodak or IBM...

There are a zillion different kinds of Freon - gas, liquid, refrigerants, solvents, et cetera...

 

[Bluefront]

Freon heatpipe cooling......Google will find many links on the subject. As to what is the working fluid in a particular brand, you're going to have trouble. "trade-secret" would be the usual answer to the question...

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Bluefront
Freon heatpipe cooling......Google will find many links on the subject. As to what is the working fluid in a particular brand, you're going to have trouble. "trade-secret" would be the usual answer to the question...

Do you have links to any technical documents? The link you provided doesn't give any technical specs...and going to the links just shows a bunch of products, but doesn't mention anything about freon in heatpipes.

I tried googling it but also got nothing.

 

[rodrigu3]

Incomplete analysis. How come they don't bother explaining why the ultra extreme 120 with 6 heatpipes does better at cooling than the ultra 120 with only 3.

 

[Modelworks]

My brother runs a appliance repair shop.
The most common refrigerant now is R-134a.
I found it interesting that one of the best refrigerants is propane.
Its just not used much due to the danger if there is a leak.

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: rodrigu3
Incomplete analysis. How come they don't bother explaining why the ultra extreme 120 with 6 heatpipes does better at cooling than the ultra 120 with only 3.

I like to know...

If 6 heatpipes cool better than 3, why didn't they use 6 in the first place?

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: VinDSL
I like to know...

If 6 heatpipes cool better than 3, why didn't they use 6 in the first place?

I'd like to know... if a $60 heatsink cools better than a $30 heatsink, why not buy the $60 heatsink in the first place?

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: Zap
I'd like to know... if a $60 heatsink cools better than a $30 heatsink, why not buy the $60 heatsink in the first place?

Heh? If you're asking me... You're talking to the wrong guy! I agree!!!

My case was 430 bones to the door - and my coolers were 70 bones each + SH

I don't mind pay-and-play, but Thermalright loves their customers too much, and stick it in their derriere at every opportunity...

I guess Thermalright clients like it that way...

I just didn't realize they were shooting blanks (no fluid)! Did you?

 

[Bluefront]

No more links from me.....you're on your own buster. Since freon 134A is now used in automotive AC units, and is relatively cheap, works well.....wouldn't surprise me if many CPU manufacturers weren't using it. It is non-toxic, and not particularly flamable.

Finding out more exact information might prove difficult. If you're interested, contact a few of these outfits and just ask...

I think one problem here is the limited size of the CPU die. The best heat transfer has a heatsink almost touching the CPU. If you use too many side by side, the outermost aren't doing much good. The Ninja uses six heatpipes, but they're stacked three on top of three....that seems to work well. Complicated subject....

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Originally posted by: VinDSL
Bwahahaha!

OMG! Thermalwrong heatpipes don't have any fluid in them! That explains it...

thilan29 for President!!!

Of course the Tuniq must... right?

And explains what exactly? That thermalright still makes the flag ship air cooler? You can be a very confusing man vinny..

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: VinDSL
I guess Thermalright clients like it that way...
I just didn't realize they were shooting blanks (no fluid)! Did you?

Alright, if someone wants to pony up a Thermalright heatsink to kill... here's the test...

Run it and check temperatures. Then, cut the tips off the heatpipes. See if liquid comes out. Then, run it and check temperatures again.

My expectation is that no liquid will come out, and that after they have been cut, the temps will skyrocket.

 

[VinDSL]

LoL!

They don't understand, Zap! They live in a dream state, not unlike hypnosis...

Thermalright has brain-washed these sheeple, and there's NO way they would take a pair of scissors and cut into their TRUE (ThermalRight Ultra Extreme) coolers.

To suggest such a thing is pure blasphemy!

That's the brilliance of this guy! They started off by using various heat pipes for beer-bottle openers, then decided to cut them open to see what was inside...

In doing so, they completely blew the whole heat pipe myth into shreds!

Now, I'm afraid, we're dealing with *feelings* instead of logic...

Thermalright heat pipes don't have jack inside, except for a hope and a dream!

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: VinDSL
They started off by using various heat pipes for beer-bottle openers, then decided to cut them open to see what was inside...
...
Thermalright heat pipes don't have jack inside, except for a hope and a dream!

I guess I didn't explain it enough. The Phoronix guys should do what I said above. Buy a Thermalright heatpipe heatsink. Test it (with an appropriate fan) for performance. Cut the tips off all the heatpipes (just the tips so they don't ruin the whole thing). See if liquid can pour out. Then, re-test the heatsink after the tips are cut off.

If temps are the same, then there's nothing in the heatpipes. If temps go up, then there was something (visible or not) in the heatpipes.

 

[VinDSL]

I know exactly what you were saying, and concur!

However, this is the computer equivalent of 'Jackass: The Movie'! That's the brilliance of it all...

It's akin to the crazy Russians (on YouTube) drinking liquid nitrogen during overclocking sessions, and/or testing PSUs by trying to get them to start on fire (by shorting them out & pouring sugar inside them while they're running).

 

[VinDSL]

BTW, I know some of you (Thermalright affectionados) lead sheltered lives, soooo...

Overclockers cocktail 2 (DO NOT SWALLOW!!!)

How to burn power supply units?

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Why are you foaming like a rabid dog vinny? :laugh:

I don't really see the point.. It works doesn't it? It works better than any other cooler doesn't it? There have already been posts describing the fact that most of the fluid is going to be in the wick. If there is no fluid? What does it matter? That's like blaming Intel because they won't release their entire Penryn line now. Thanks to free business practices, a company has the right to withold advancements in a product line until they need and edge. It's free business, and you spend money where you see fit. I know it may burn your rectum to know it but I'm cetain your precious Tuniq is no different.

What is your obssession with Thermalright anyways? OCZ was also tested. You don't say anything about them.. Please pull the Tuniq out of your anus so that you can stop shouting

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
If there is no fluid? What does it matter?

Actually that DOES matter. If there's no fluid it's not performing as well as it could and people didn't pay $50+ to get a cooler that doesn't perform as well as it could.

Plus why call them heat pipes if there's no fluid in it?