HealthCare - Rationing, Govt Audits of Biz and the list goes on...

[bob4432]

I like how everyone already ignored the complete obliteration of this cut and pasted chain email by politifact.

As Pulsar already linked to:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m.../30/e-mail-analysis-health-bill-needs-check-/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m.../30/e-mail-analysis-health-bill-needs-check-/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m.../30/e-mail-analysis-health-bill-needs-check-/

TLDR: bob's post is a pants-on-fire massive lie. Nearly every single point in it is massively distorted or simply invented out of thin air.

But yeah guys, Republicans are really backing up what they say... hahahahhaa. How many chain emails do people have to fall for before they stop cutting and pasting what they get in their inbox? I really do wonder soccerball, who is too stupid here?

read the source and read the list...or do you need politifact to make your mind up for you....it is all there.

and fwiw, i fully support death panels, if there was such a thing. after being in severe chronic pain for over a decade now w/out being terminal, i could see if it were my final years i would rather be able to die in a humane manner of my choosing and when i chose, not to suffer from cancer for years at a time w/ people trying to keep me alive because assisted suicide is against the law.

 

[bob4432]

medical care is already rationed. law of economics 1: goods and services are scarce and must be rationed.

true, but not to the extent it will have to be if a bill like this passes

 

[ElFenix]

true, but not to the extent it will have to be if a bill like this passes

extent? what's a greater extent than 100%?

 

[ShawnD1]

oh how i wish this stuff was not true, but sadly, it is. for you people that claim this current healt care "reform" is good, what do you have to say about these points?

Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill: THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE
that decides what treatments/benefits you get.

Private insurance already does this.

Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS
RATIONED!!!

Private insurance already does this.

Page 42 of HC Bill: The Health Choices Commissioner will
choose your HC benefits for you. You have no choice!

Private insurance already does this.

Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill: HC will be provided to ALL
non-US citizens, illegal or otherwise.

This is already the law. If a mexican is shot and you turn him away from the hospital, you'll lose your medical license and possibly go to jail.

Page 58 HC Bill: Govt will have real-time access to
individuals' finances & a 'National ID Health card' will be issued!

Private insurance already does this.

Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access
to your bank accounts for elective funds transfer.

Private insurance already does this. You can also arrange this with your phone and utility companies if you want. My car insurance is automatically withdrawn every month and I never see a bill for it.

Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages
for private HC plans in the 'Exchange.'

This is currently done by your employer and no you can't control it.

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels
for Plans -- The Govt will ration your health care!

Private insurance already does this.

Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill: Govt mandates linguistic
appropriate services. (Translation: illegal aliens.)

Private insurance already does this.

Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18: The Govt will use groups (i.e.
ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.

Group plans are usually better than individual plans.

Page 12 4 lines 24-25 HC: No company can sue GOVT on price
fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt monopoly.

Wait, you're saying price limits are bad? Feel free to pay $10,000 per year for insurance. I won't stop you.

Page 145 Line 15-17: An Employer MUST auto-enroll employees
into public option plan. (NO choice!)

Are you suggesting it's better for people to have no insurance at all?

Page 126 Lines 22-25: Employers MUST pay for HC for
part-time employees AND their families.. (Employees shouldn't get excited
about this as employers will be forced to reduce its work force, benefits,
and wages/salaries to cover such a huge expense.)

This is probably a good thing. One trick Walmart likes to pull is to give people just enough hours that don't quite qualify for full time benefits. Enough of that bullshit. If you want employees, you give them the same benefits every employee gets. The company will choose to hire fewer employees and work them longer hours. Working 50 hours at Walmart and making overtime is better than working 23 hours.

Page 149 Lines 16-24: ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above
who does not provide public option will pay 8% tax on all payroll! (See the
last comment in parenthesis.)
Page 150 Lines 9-13: A business with payroll between $251K &
$401K who doesn't provide public option will pay 2-6% tax on all payroll.

Again, you're implying that employees should not get health insurance. Why?

Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesn't have
acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.

You're right on this. This one is bad.

Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt
from individual taxes. (Americans will pay.)

Do you realize that non-resident means they don't live in the US? Are you really suggesting they charge a healthcare punishment tax for Canadians who don't receive US healthcare benefits?

Page 195 HC Bill: Officers & employees of the GOVT HC
Admin.. will have access to ALL Americans' finances and personal records.

They already have that. Do you think the government has absolutely no idea how much money you made last year or how much debt you owe on your house?

Page 203 Line 14-15 HC: "The tax imposed under this section
shall not be treated as tax." (Yes, it really says that!)

This is probably put there so you're not allowed to get a refund for it when filing your taxes. A few years ago the government of Alberta would send me a bill for $120 every 3 months to pay for my healthcare. It's obviously a government tax for healthcare, but it's not treated as tax and I'm not allowed to file for a refund if my tax deductions for the year are greater than my taxes paid.

Page 253 Line 10-18: The Govt sets the value of a doctor's
time, profession, judgment, etc. (Literally-- the value of humans.)

Private insurance already does this.

Page 268 Sec 1141: The federal Govt regulates the rental and
purchase of power driven wheelchairs.

Private insurance already does this.

Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS -
Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

Private insurance already does this.

Page 280 Sec 1151: The Govt will penalize hospitals for
whatever the Govt deems preventable (i.e....re-admissions).

Private insurance already does this. If they feel your treatment was not needed, they'll flat out refuse to pay for it even though you've already had the treatment. If you don't have a quarter million dollars just sitting in the bank, the hospital swallows whatever expense is left after you've filed for bankruptcy.

Page 298 Lines 9-11: Doctors: If you treat a patient during
initial admission that results in a re-admission -- the Govt will penalize
you.

Does this mean the government punishes doctors who screw up or misdiagnose things? More explanation needed.

Page 317 L 13-20: PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. (The
Govt tells doctors what and how much they can own!)

This is to prevent conflict of interest. If the doctor owns the X-ray machine and gets paid every time it's used, he'll refer everyone to get an X-ray even when it's not needed.

Page 335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339: The Govt mandates establishment
of=2 outcome-based measures. (HC the way they want -- rationing.)
Page 341 Lines 3-9: The Govt has authority to disqualify
Medicare Advance Plans, HMOs, etc. (Forcing people into the Govt plan)

Private insurance already does this. You can lose your health benefits for any reason at all.

Page 354 Sec 1177: The Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of
'special needs people!' Unbelievable!

Private insurance already does this. It's called a pre-existing condition.

Page 379 Sec 1191: The Govt creates more bureaucracy via a
"Tele-Health Advisory Committee." (Can you say HC by phone?)

This saves money by answering questions without going to see a doctor. This sounds very similar to poison control or 911 operators who tell you exactly what you should be doing while a doctor or paramedic is not there.

Page 425 Lines 17-19: The Govt will instruct and consult
regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. (And it's
mandatory!)
Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: The Govt provides an
"approved" list of end-of-life resources; & nbsp;guiding you in death. (Also
called 'assisted suicide.')

God forbid people write a will or make plans for things. What is this, Russia?

Page 427 Lines 15-24: The Govt mandates a program for orders
on "end-of-life." (The Govt has a say in how your life ends!)

We should have killed Terry Shiavo the old fashioned way - hold a pillow over the bitch's face until she flatlines. I don't need the government telling me how I kill people.

Page 429 Lines 1-9: An "advanced-care planning consultant"
will be used frequently as a patient's health deteriorates.

Page 429 Lines 10-12: An "advanced care consultation" may
include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. (AN ORDER TO DIE FROM THE
GOVERNMENT?!?)

People with cancer absolutely never die. We should not put any thought into what to do when they get sicker.

Page 429 Lines 13-25: The GOVT will specify which doctors
can write an end-of-life order. (I wouldn't want to stand before God after
getting paid for THAT job!)

I'm pretty sure they already have a law that states who can do this. We can't have the janitor going around unplugging people can we?

Page 430 Lines 11-15: The Govt will decide what level of
treatment you will have at end-of-life! (Again -- no choice!)

This is already done. Younger people get first dibs on lungs and kidneys because they're not expected to die in the next year.

Page 469: Community-Based Home Medical Services = Non-Profit
Organizations. (Hello? ACORN Medical Services here!?!)

My non-profit dental insurance is provided through Alberta Blue Cross and it seems to work pretty good.

Page 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover marriage and family
therapy. (Which means Govt will insert itself into your marriage even.)

It's best to never get counseling. Read my signature.

Page 494-498: Govt will cover Mental Health Services
including defining, creating, and rationing those services.

This is because mentally ill people very often end up in jail when their illnesses are not treated. The government paying for a guy's schizophrenia medication is a hell of a lot cheaper than the government paying to keep him in jail. Either that or they could just kill him.

 

[shadow9d9]

Great response... but the OP and others don't really want to be educated. Fear rules the day.

 

[Ausm]

true, but not to the extent it will have to be if a bill like this passes

Pure speculation and a GOP talking point that has been pounded into a big pile of goo.

 

[fskimospy]

read the source and read the list...or do you need politifact to make your mind up for you....it is all there.

and fwiw, i fully support death panels, if there was such a thing. after being in severe chronic pain for over a decade now w/out being terminal, i could see if it were my final years i would rather be able to die in a humane manner of my choosing and when i chose, not to suffer from cancer for years at a time w/ people trying to keep me alive because assisted suicide is against the law.

It has nothing to do with politifact making up my mind for me, it has to do with what is true and what isn't true. You put a post up on here that was by and large, a complete lie. What you should be doing is apologizing, instead you're trying to bravely soldier on. The point of posting the politifact article was that it was a consolidated list of all the different ways in which your cut and pasted email chain letter is a lie.

Now are you going to believe things that are dropped in your inbox because they tell you what you want to hear, or are you big enough to accept that you were hoodwinked by ultra partisans into believing something that was wrong? It doesn't mean you have to support this health care reform, but you should at least be honest enough with yourself to oppose it on things that are real and not this make believe bullshit.

 

[Descartes]

It is a consumer driven industry. If there is no consumer, there is no health insurance industry. If you don't like your current insurance than *CHOOSE* a different provider.

The fact of the matter is most people are too lazy to take initiative over this.

Sadly, your comment is typical of most "consumers" in healthcare. You don't even know how anti-consumer it really is. There's a reason why so many of the new innovations in the healthcare IT space are about providing visibility to patients and enabling their choices.

And this is the great veil of ignorance that some companies hold over us. Just as some are all about, "Let's make it a government program and the will of the people will be done", many more are automatons of the industry that they don't even know it. We've been dealing with it so long that we never knew any different. It's the boiling frog syndrome, and we're the frogs. Your control over your own health taken away one legislative bill and one corporate meeting at a time.

This isn't conspiratorial talk. It's just the way it is. It can be fixed, but we have to drive it. There are already many movements in this direction independent of reform itself: Concierge doctors, pay-as-you-go services, patient/doctor portals, regional health info networks (RHINs), even the fed's CONNECT program.

 

[werepossum]

Sadly, your comment is typical of most "consumers" in healthcare. You don't even know how anti-consumer it really is. There's a reason why so many of the new innovations in the healthcare IT space are about providing visibility to patients and enabling their choices.

And this is the great veil of ignorance that some companies hold over us. Just as some are all about, "Let's make it a government program and the will of the people will be done", many more are automatons of the industry that they don't even know it. We've been dealing with it so long that we never knew any different. It's the boiling frog syndrome, and we're the frogs. Your control over your own health taken away one legislative bill and one corporate meeting at a time.

This isn't conspiratorial talk. It's just the way it is. It can be fixed, but we have to drive it. There are already many movements in this direction independent of reform itself: Concierge doctors, pay-as-you-go services, patient/doctor portals, regional health info networks (RHINs), even the fed's CONNECT program.

And health savings accounts backed with catastrophic insurance protection. We have to get away from demanding that insurance pay for every little health care need, just as automobile insurance shouldn't pay for replacing air filters or worn out tires. Any insurance must be protection against unlikely things or else it becomes just a too-expensive way to handle life's expenses. Instead this bill and its ilk are attempting to have insurance pay even more of our health needs whilst also convincing us we're somehow going to save money.

 

[Pens1566]

Ugh, the car insurance thing again? Apples to oranges.

 

[Descartes]

And health savings accounts backed with catastrophic insurance protection. We have to get away from demanding that insurance pay for every little health care need, just as automobile insurance shouldn't pay for replacing air filters or worn out tires. Any insurance must be protection against unlikely things or else it becomes just a too-expensive way to handle life's expenses. Instead this bill and its ilk are attempting to have insurance pay even more of our health needs whilst also convincing us we're somehow going to save money.

I couldn't agree more. I'm not sure if this version of the bill still includes it, but there was a clause for allowing patients to request that services be self-pay and not hit the insurance companies. I would so much rather just be able to go, pay for what I need and be done with it. Pass the savings of not having to go through denial management, patient financial services, etc. etc. and just let me pay.

Concierge doctors work this way, in part. I use a concierge doctor for travel medicine when I go out of the country and it works very well.

Sadly, even if it were the norm, most doctors wouldn't be equipped to handle purely self-pay claims anyway. This is why uncompensated care in the US is now somewhere around $40 billion.

It's just a mess all around. No other industry works like this, and the reason is almost purely due to the attempt of payors to control the flow of cash to providers in a way that disfavors the patients. Doctors are hand-tied and simply defer the claims management to others.

 

[Descartes]

Ugh, the car insurance thing again? Apples to oranges.

Why?

 

[bob4432]

Great response... but the OP and others don't really want to be educated. Fear rules the day.

great response my ass - read the bill on the lines quoted. private ins may be doing some of this on a much smaller scale than what we will see if this goes through, once the gov takes over anything, it is destined to become much more inefficient and care less about the people - look at anything gov related and inform me of where gov is more efficient than private sector?

and "taxing" more companies into offshores jobs...really good idea, it has gotten us very far up to this point...or the companies will just go under and then more people on the system, depending on the gov for everything, which is the ultimate desire for the last few administrations.

as far as apologizing - fuck you, i wouldn't apologize for the reality that you believe to be false.

how many of you have read 100pages of the bill and intrepeted by your own brain?

and again for all those that say "private ins already does this" yes, to some extent, but again i will stress it is nothing that will compare of when opm takes over.

also, how many of you have dealt w/ fed medicine?

 

[fskimospy]

I couldn't agree more. I'm not sure if this version of the bill still includes it, but there was a clause for allowing patients to request that services be self-pay and not hit the insurance companies. I would so much rather just be able to go, pay for what I need and be done with it. Pass the savings of not having to go through denial management, patient financial services, etc. etc. and just let me pay.

Concierge doctors work this way, in part. I use a concierge doctor for travel medicine when I go out of the country and it works very well.

Sadly, even if it were the norm, most doctors wouldn't be equipped to handle purely self-pay claims anyway. This is why uncompensated care in the US is now somewhere around $40 billion.

It's just a mess all around. No other industry works like this, and the reason is almost purely due to the attempt of payors to control the flow of cash to providers in a way that disfavors the patients. Doctors are hand-tied and simply defer the claims management to others.

That's not true, you can self pay at every doctor's office that I've ever been to, and trust me I've been to more doctors offices than nearly every person on here.

There is always a self pay option, and nearly always a self pay discount of between 25-50%. Of course when 50% off takes $200,000 in medical bills down to $100,000, that's like saying you only got run over by one train instead of two.

 

[fskimospy]

great response my ass - read the bill on the lines quoted. private ins may be doing some of this on a much smaller scale than what we will see if this goes through, once the gov takes over anything, it is destined to become much more inefficient and care less about the people - look at anything gov related and inform me of where gov is more efficient than private sector?

and "taxing" more companies into offshores jobs...really good idea, it has gotten us very far up to this point...or the companies will just go under and then more people on the system, depending on the gov for everything, which is the ultimate desire for the last few administrations.

as far as apologizing - fuck you, i wouldn't apologize for the reality that you believe to be false.

how many of you have read 100pages of the bill and intrepeted by your own brain?

and again for all those that say "private ins already does this" yes, to some extent, but again i will stress it is nothing that will compare of when opm takes over.

Continue to wallow in ignorance then. You're not fucking me, you're fucking yourself. Dumb people who allow themselves to be fooled like this always get taken advantage of sooner or later.

Wow, you read 100 pages of the bill and interpreted it with your own brain. Are you a policy analyst? Are you a doctor? Are you a health insurance actuary? A health industry regulator? What you're saying is something similar to 'I don't care what that electrical engineer told you, even though I've never taken a single EE class I looked at the schematic with MY OWN TWO EYES, so I know what's going on'. It's absolute stupidity.

You've allowed yourself to be tricked by a chain email because it tells you what you already desperately want to believe. You should be thanking us for wasting the time to try and open your eyes.

 

[Descartes]

That's not true, you can self pay at every doctor's office that I've ever been to, and trust me I've been to more doctors offices than nearly every person on here.

There is always a self pay option, and nearly always a self pay discount of between 25-50%. Of course when 50% off takes $200,000 in medical bills down to $100,000, that's like saying you only got run over by one train instead of two.

Fair enough. I agree that it provides benefits, but I don't believe this to be the norm. I have no real metrics, though from the discussions I've had most concerns were around the ability to deal with a larger volume of self-pay claims which already have a terrible post-visit recovery rate.

 

[bob4432]

Continue to wallow in ignorance then. You're not fucking me, you're fucking yourself. Dumb people who allow themselves to be fooled like this always get taken advantage of sooner or later.

Wow, you read 100 pages of the bill and interpreted it with your own brain. Are you a policy analyst? Are you a doctor? Are you a health insurance actuary? A health industry regulator? What you're saying is something similar to 'I don't care what that electrical engineer told you, even though I've never taken a single EE class I looked at the schematic with MY OWN TWO EYES, so I know what's going on'. It's absolute stupidity.

You've allowed yourself to be tricked by a chain email because it tells you what you already desperately want to believe. You should be thanking us for wasting the time to try and open your eyes.

open my eye from the talking points of from the left that you all define as the truth? hopefully this bill will fail, if not it really won't matter that you were all wrong as we as a country will be proper fucked then

again, i was just asking if people had actually read any of the bill or they are just going on the talking point they have read on their "news" sites? the answer is a simple yes or no. don't be ashamed if you havent as you are in the company of your brothers, as those that are voting on this and willing to take down a country haven't either. just do what you are told...move along sheeple, don't read this, nothing to see here....

 

[fskimospy]

open my eye from the talking points of from the left that you all define as the truth? hopefully this bill will fail, if not it really won't matter that you were all wrong as we as a country will be proper fucked then

again, i was just asking if people had actually read any of the bill or they are just going on the talking point they have read on their "news" sites? the answer is a simple yes or no. don't be ashamed if you havent as you are in the company of your brothers, as those that are voting on this and willing to take down a country haven't either. just do what you are told...move along sheeple, don't read this, nothing to see here....

'Talking points from the left'? Are you insane? It's an Pulitzer prize winning independent nonpartisan fact checking site.

You weren't 'just asking' anything. (shades of Glenn Beck! Just asking questions!) You were parroting absurd and indefensible fabrications about the health care bill, and you got called out on it.

 

[0marTheZealot]

And health savings accounts backed with catastrophic insurance protection. We have to get away from demanding that insurance pay for every little health care need, just as automobile insurance shouldn't pay for replacing air filters or worn out tires. Any insurance must be protection against unlikely things or else it becomes just a too-expensive way to handle life's expenses. Instead this bill and its ilk are attempting to have insurance pay even more of our health needs whilst also convincing us we're somehow going to save money.

The problem is that there is no choice in healthcare. You can choose to buy cheap tires or to just ride on worn-out tires. In healthcare, there is often no choice or a set of very limited choices, of which, the consumer has nearly no power in. If you have headaches for three straight days, you are not in a position to make a rational decision. When you go to the doctor's and he orders an MRI, you have no way of really knowing that an MRI (vs say a PET scan or a biopsy) is the correct choice.

On top of that, if a car gives you a lot of trouble, you can ditch it and buy a new one. If you have a chronic condition, then you are stuck with medication/procedures etc etc forever. When the option is blood pressure medicine or stroking out whenever you get up, what choice do you have? You can't even make a rational choice between blood pressure medicine A vs B vs C vs D. You would literally have to read thousands of pages to understand the risks/benefits of each drug.

Sure, if you have a minor aliment, you can make some choices and in the end, if you are healthy, it shouldn't really matter. For instance, if I run a fever, I'll probably just sleep an extra few hours, grab a few more glasses of water and monitor myself for a day or two. That's an example of rational choice. If I start shitting blood, I can't a make a choice because I don't know anything about it. Did my ass just explode? What about infection? Is this an isolated incidence or a systemic problem? The consumer has no information and has no way to honestly get that information, save for enrolling in medical school.

 

[fskimospy]

Fair enough. I agree that it provides benefits, but I don't believe this to be the norm. I have no real metrics, though from the discussions I've had most concerns were around the ability to deal with a larger volume of self-pay claims which already have a terrible post-visit recovery rate.

I'll agree with you on that one. I don't have any exact numbers either but I'm just about certain that the percentage of bills that get paid after someone leaves are terrible. They don't really have much hold over the patient as they already provided the service. All they can really do is ruin your credit.

 

[Descartes]

The problem is that there is no choice in healthcare. You can choose to buy cheap tires or to just ride on worn-out tires. In healthcare, there is often no choice or a set of very limited choices, of which, the consumer has nearly no power in. If you have headaches for three straight days, you are not in a position to make a rational decision. When you go to the doctor's and he orders an MRI, you have no way of really knowing that an MRI (vs say a PET scan or a biopsy) is the correct choice.

On top of that, if a car gives you a lot of trouble, you can ditch it and buy a new one. If you have a chronic condition, then you are stuck with medication/procedures etc etc forever. When the option is blood pressure medicine or stroking out whenever you get up, what choice do you have? You can't even make a rational choice between blood pressure medicine A vs B vs C vs D. You would literally have to read thousands of pages to understand the risks/benefits of each drug.

Sure, if you have a minor aliment, you can make some choices and in the end, if you are healthy, it shouldn't really matter. For instance, if I run a fever, I'll probably just sleep an extra few hours, grab a few more glasses of water and monitor myself for a day or two. That's an example of rational choice. If I start shitting blood, I can't a make a choice because I don't know anything about it. Did my ass just explode? What about infection? Is this an isolated incidence or a systemic problem? The consumer has no information and has no way to honestly get that information, save for enrolling in medical school.

That's a tough problem, if it's really a problem at all. We enable professionals in any industry to maintain a certain level of knowledge we don't have; after all, if we didn't have that abstraction, why bother using them at all? We need to be able to reliably delegate some things, be it legal, health, financial or otherwise. You're never guaranteed that the practitioner will do right by you, but that's the risk we take.

The difference in healthcare is that the risk isn't balance. When you talk to a lawyer, his compensation is tied directly to his performance. For healthcare providers, there is a fracture between this consumer relationship and this leads to the problems we are all too familiar with.

Like anything, multiple opinions are your friend. Patients need to drive the process. Know what you're getting into, ask questions (I get told by doctors all the time that patients just don't even know/care what to ask) and participate in your health. We'd abdicated our own health to these doctors and the payors so much that we don't even think about what we're doing. Doctors, in an attempt to pacify, would prescribe just to fulfill their obligations even when it wasn't necessary.

Doctors aren't magicians. They make mistakes and they don't know everything. I like it when my doctor tells me he'll have to research something, because it shows me he's intellectually honest. There's no room for dogma. Find a doctor that fits with you philosophically and engages you in the process.

Healthcare reform or not, the "old" way of practicing healthcare will most certainly be gone and the doctors prescribing to this method will too.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

<steps in to see if anyone knows much of what they speak>

Nope.

<walks back out>



One thing that is different between private insurance and the government, and that's private insurance companies don't come in with badges and guns and fine you 10-25K per instance if you forgot to write the time down on a prescription. Yeah, the government does that, but again they can do pretty much anything they want in practice.

 

[bob4432]

'Talking points from the left'? Are you insane? It's an Pulitzer prize winning independent nonpartisan fact checking site.

You weren't 'just asking' anything. (shades of Glenn Beck! Just asking questions!) You were parroting absurd and indefensible fabrications about the health care bill, and you got called out on it.

doesn't make them immune to incorrect statements. remember, obama just won the nobel peace prize....

and don't give me the beck bullshit, don't care to watch him

 

[Descartes]

<steps in to see if anyone knows much of what they speak>

Nope.

<walks back out>



One thing that is different between private insurance and the government, and that's private insurance companies don't come in with badges and guns and fine you 10-25K per instance if you forgot to write the time down on a prescription. Yeah, the government does that, but again they can do pretty much anything they want in practice.

Why do we keep arguing, ad stinkin' nauseum, about what color the emperor's close are? No, you're right, they don't come in with badges and guns; instead, they deny, obfuscate and otherwise shuffle responsibility onto providers creating exceptional expenses. I know of one hospital that has over 100 people dedicated entirely to denial management.

And go ahead and laugh it up about the regulations put forth about prescriptions. Some 4,000 deaths occur every year from improper handling of prescriptions. The recent surge of bedside medication verification systems solves much of this problem, but most smaller hospitals still don't have them.

What's ultimately so confusing, to me at least, is that you all bitch and moan about what's in the healthcare reform plan and call it unnecessary; yet, if you look at any of the major healthcare players they are scrambling as fast as they can to institute the same systems.

Again, choose your emperor. For example, HINs are a good idea. BMVs are a good idea. Decision-support systems are a good idea. Let's start there, then you can argue idealistically that you prefer free market solutions vs. government-mandated ones (though the government will still use the free market solutions to implement them, but hey... forget that little bit of info).

 

[shadow9d9]

great response my ass - read the bill on the lines quoted. private ins may be doing some of this on a much smaller scale than what we will see if this goes through, once the gov takes over anything, it is destined to become much more inefficient and care less about the people - look at anything gov related and inform me of where gov is more efficient than private sector?

and "taxing" more companies into offshores jobs...really good idea, it has gotten us very far up to this point...or the companies will just go under and then more people on the system, depending on the gov for everything, which is the ultimate desire for the last few administrations.

as far as apologizing - fuck you, i wouldn't apologize for the reality that you believe to be false.

how many of you have read 100pages of the bill and intrepeted by your own brain?

and again for all those that say "private ins already does this" yes, to some extent, but again i will stress it is nothing that will compare of when opm takes over.

also, how many of you have dealt w/ fed medicine?

Sigh.. so dumb...

Anyone who thinks FOR PROFIT rationing of healthcare is better than NON PROFIT is a buffoon.