Health Insurance Companies Seek Big Rate Increases for 2016

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Feb 4, 2009
35,166
16,591
136
As we can see by this graph the solution is single payer:

K3f9ua3.png


I don't want to hear the same crap Spidey used to spout about too many Black people shooting each other when they are young. We all spend the most money per person on the planet and we get very mediocre results.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
As we can see by this graph the solution is single payer:

K3f9ua3.png


I don't want to hear the same crap Spidey used to spout about too many Black people shooting each other when they are young. We all spend the most money per person on the planet and we get very mediocre results.

That does not give a clear picture though. What you need to do is look at percapita spending of those whom have insurance and see what their life expectancy is. European healthcare covers everyone and the USA style does not, so presumably not everyone is getting the full benefit of healthcare in the USA.

So to look at the graph is very misleading if you dont put it into context.

Mind you, even with that adjustment, those whom have healthcare still way overspend for the outcome they get, but its still needs to be put into context.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,153
6,317
126
Time for government run medical clinics and gyms, kitchens, and community job training centers all over the country to train the poor to be medics nurses physical trainers and nutritionists, dietitians, and educators to raise the quality of American life to provide a common defense against bad health, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to our posterity.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
Feb 4, 2009
35,166
16,591
136
That does not give a clear picture though. What you need to do is look at percapita spending of those whom have insurance and see what their life expectancy is. European healthcare covers everyone and the USA style does not, so presumably not everyone is getting the full benefit of healthcare in the USA.

So to look at the graph is very misleading if you dont put it into context.

Mind you, even with that adjustment, those whom have healthcare still way overspend for the outcome they get, but its still needs to be put into context.

I get that its a very simple view but its total expense/population. The fact that someone does not have insurance shouldn't change the number. I understand the point may be a guy in Denmark essentially pays for insurance from taxation and that doesn't figure into spending but we are making a big leap assuming government expenses are not already reflected in the graph.
Regardless we all know we over pay for what we get. Single payer seems to make care more reasonable.
Its also safe to assume our lifespans are shorter than Italy, Greece or Japan. That has been studied for decades.
 
Last edited:

unokitty

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2012
3,346
1
0
OpenSecrets.org
In the 2012 election cycle, the insurance industry contributed a record $58.7 million to federal parties and candidates as well as outside spending groups.
Last Presidential election, the successful candidate raised over a billion dollars in campaign contributions. Note that that doesn't include what was spent on Lobbying.

US campaign finance system is legal and corrupt.

Anyone that thinks that the insurance companies are giving tens of millions of dollars to politicians and lobbyists in order to lower their insurance costs should probably consult a mental health professional.

Uno
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
The insurance companies love "Obamacare". Remember, it was originally a Republican idea designed to keep the insurance companies in business.

What if we could find a way to eliminate insurance companies and the mountain of other expenses associated with having an insurance-based system and redirected that wasted money to actually producing healthcare?

"Here is the hospital's billing department." (Hospital director points to a single drawer at a desk.) Source: Sick Around the World (the British segment)

Agreed. Health insurance should be abolished and the state should provide it. It is a failed system whose time has passed.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
This was to be expected. The people who didn't have insurance were the sickest who couldn't afford it or who had delayed visiting a doctor for so long their health had deteriorated. Now since insurance companies can't say no they got hoardes of people who for lowered premiums cost them more money. In addition new drugs for previously incurable diseases are astronomical. We are going to have huge rate increases, single payer or death panels as the current system problems haven't been fixed by obamacare.


You keep believing that nonsense, the insurance companies wrote this law and made sure that cost containment was not part of it, which by the way is something all those other mostly European countries that were used as an example for Obamacare take seriously,

this is nothing more than corporate fleecing of a captive market just like they did with medicare/medicaid where the government can't negotiate for better prices .
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin...sam-barred-bargaining-medicare-drug-prices-s/
Since Congress approved the program, proposed by Bush, Democrats have groused that it was a huge giveaway for the pharmaceutical industry because it did not allow Medicare to negotiate drug prices. Obama vowed to change the program to allow Medicare negotiate lower prices. But he backed away from the pledge during negotiations over his health care reform bill, and no provision on negotiating drug prices was included in the bill that became law in 2010.
America had the best medical care system example which was proven to work in Rochester, New York and was referred to positively by Hillary Clinton when she tried to have a healthcare law passed in the early 1990's.


This is why it worked, companies, medical providers, community civic leaders, and insurance companies COOPERATED together for the best possible healthcare outcome that no law will ever accomplish.


http://www.nytimes.com/1992/08/25/b...rves-as-model-in-controlling-health-cost.html
COMPANY NEWS; Rochester Serves as Model In Controlling Health Cost

By MILT FREUDENHEIM,

Published: August 25, 1992



ROCHESTER— In the search for ways to slow the surge in national medical spending, policy makers and economists are paying growing attention to this prosperous industrial city of 232,000 in upstate New York.


Health-care experts say Rochester is one of the few American cities that have systems that work. Although medical costs have also been rising rapidly here in recent years, they are still at least 25 percent lower per capita than national levels. And in Rochester, only 6 percent of the population does not have insurance, according to a survey by Louis Harris & Associates, far below the 14 percent national rate.



By cooperating closely, instead of competing ferociously as they do in most cities, the doctors, the hospitals and the local businesses have kept the quality of care high, with a relatively low level of waste and unnecessary care. The General Accounting Office is preparing a report on the Rochester system for Congress. Program Called 'a Jewel'



"Rochester is a jewel in a sea of health-care despair," said Stephen Skorcz, a Toronto hospital executive who was president for four years of the Rochester Area Hospitals Corporation, a nonprofit planning and research group that the hospitals established.



The Rochester program has served the interests of the city's largest employers, including Eastman Kodak and Xerox, by holding down the growth in costly health-care benefits. But the chief beneficiaries have been the families and small businesses that would typically not have access to affordable care because they were not part of a larger group.


Equality of Payments

Under the Rochester plan, they pay the same monthly premiums for each person as Kodak and Xerox, for equal benefits. And unlike most health-care plans for small groups, no one pays more or is refused coverage because of age, sex or a previous medical condition.



Doctors and business and hospital executives around the country say one reason the Rochester system works is that local industry, vigorously led by Kodak, which has 39,000 employees here, cooperates closely.



All but a few employers buy their insurance from Rochester Area Blue Cross and an independent health maintenance organization, instead of following the national pattern of insuring themselves in separate arrangements. This self-insuring can reduce a large company's costs, at least for a time, but it often increases the burden for small companies, which have few employees over which to spread the risks.



David E. Edwards, Kodak's benefits director, compared the company's community-first philosophy to the maxim "the family that prays together stays together." Kodak's 1991 health costs averaged $2,100 an employee in Rochester, which was 25 percent lower than at the company's operations in other cities. Kodak's total cost last year for all employees, retirees and dependents was $240 million.



Rochester Area Blue Cross and Blue Shield said the cost of health-care coverage per employee in company plans here was $2,378 in 1991, about one-third less than the $3,573 reported in a national survey of employers by the A. Foster Higgins benefits consulting firm. Those numbers include both employer and employee contributions.



In addition, Blue Cross administrative costs were 7 percent of revenues, much lower than national estimates of 14 to 24 percent for most insurers. Rochester Blue Cross officials said the reasons for their lower costs included the efficiency of their electronic claims processing, the high productivity of their employees and therelatively low spending on advertising.



More than half of the region's one million people are in health maintenance organizations, which are prepaid health plans that offer comprehensive coverage, including regular checkups, and try to help their members avert expensive hospital stays. Even the handful of self-insured employers, including Bausch & Lomb and General Motors' Delco Chassis and AC Rochester units, say most of their Rochester people are in one of the two local H.M.O.'s, one of which is offered by Blue Cross. Blue Cross H.M.O. premiums last year were as much as 25 percent lower than for comparable for traditional coverage.


Reins on Hospitals
Another area of industry cooperation has included close oversight of the area's seven hospitals, which represent a large portion of the costs of health care. Backed by state health planning laws that require approval for big projects or purchases, the Rochester business executives who sit on the hospital boards have kept a tight lid on new buildings and technology. "No one proposes a Taj Mahal," said Albert D. Sharbonneau, executive vice president of the Genesee Hospital in Rochester, which has 424 beds. "It's not worth your time."



No additional hospital beds have been authorized since the 1960's, so more than 90 percent of the beds are always occupied. With all the patients they can handle, "the hospitals haven't had to get into helicopter wars," said Arthur Liebert, president of the 526-bed Rochester General Hospital, referring to the helicopters some hospitals deploy in emergencies.



Avoiding expensive duplication, the hospitals have agreed over the years on which institutions should perform certain specialized services -- like organ transplants, open-heart surgery, pediatrics, psychiatry -- usually with related teaching programs at the University of Rochester medical school.



Under industry pressure, the hospitals agreed to let the Hospital Corporation set communitywide budget ceilings for a time in the early 1980's. This forced them to squeeze down spending. Then because costs were lower than the going rates paid by Medicare, Rochester voluntarily gave back to surprised Federal officials a total of $4.8 million in 1984 and 1989 to prove the effectiveness of its approach.



"When we took the check down to Washington, they didn't know what to do with it," said Dr. James A. Block, who headed the Hospital Corporation at the time and is now president of Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore. "Nobody had ever returned Medicare money before."



But when the hospitals began to experience operating losses in the late 1980's, they rebelled against the budget ceilings. Other developments, including expensive new diagnostic equipment and surgical procedures, soon were pushing medical costs in Rochester up as rapidly as in other cities, albeit from a much lower base.
Costs Begin to Climb
"Costs have been creeping up in the past few years," said Patricia M. Nazemetz, Xerox's benefits director. But she said that local business executives were trying to get planning back on the table, with all the interested parties taking part in the discussion.



To keep the hospitals cooperating, Donald D. Zrebiec, a retired Xerox executive, is helping to direct a program in which management experts from Kodak, Xerox, General Motors and I.B.M. are advising eight Rochester area hospitals on how to improve the quality of their service.



With hospitals closely controlled in New York State, most health-care spending has moved to physicians' offices and clinics, which often buy their own computerized scanners and magnetic-imaging machines. The Rochester Area Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association is considering an innovative plan that would put pressure on these buyers to get approval as the hospitals do.



Another cornerstone of the Rochester plan is the single-price approach, known as community rating.
Under community rating, everybody -- young and old, healthy and infirm -- is grouped together so the risks and costs are spread evenly across large numbers of people. By contrast, when they become sick or grow old, most individuals and members of small groups have to pay higher premiums or drop their coverage, joining more than 30 million Americans who are uninsured.



Al Ross, a 59-year-old home maintenance contractor, kept his Blue Cross coverage in Rochester after he moved with his wife and two children to Hilton Head Island, S.C.. "Here they charge according to your age," he said of South Carolina, "and there is an additional charge for each child. I'd feel crushed if I had to pay that."



Trends in Health Insurance
Only a few other places, notably Hawaii, have kept community rating, which was common before insurers began to compete for the business of small groups with varying rates. This and other kinds of competition in health care came into vogue in the 1980's in hopes that the pressures of the marketplace would slow rising medical costs, but the practice has tended to favor groups of healthier people and exclude people who are at risk of incurring higher medical bills.


Modified versions of the single-price approach have recently been adopted statewide by Maine, Vermont, Oregon and New York, where the law will take effect on April 1. Community rating is also under study in several other state legislatures and in Congress.



Commercial insurers who oppose community rating say the system would force them to raise premiums beyond the reach of many young and healthy policyholders. That has not happened, however, in Rochester. But Chris Petersen, a senior counsel with the Health Insurance Association of America, a commercial insurers' group, contends that the Rochester system can function only because Blue Cross plans in New York are exempt from state taxes and get discounts on hospital charges.



Power of Example
Policy makers in Washington and across the country express interest in adopting at least parts of the Rochester system. But experts disagree over how many of the Rochester advantages could be replicated elsewhere.
People in Rochester "have been out in front in showing how they can behave as a community," said Dr. Merlin DuVal, a former Assistant Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare who is dean emeritus of the University of Arizona College of Medicine.


Dr. Block of Johns Hopkins said the Rochester approach could be transferred to any city if local business leaders would join in supporting a unified regional insurance program. Kodak executives said they were discussing similar approaches in several cities where the company has large plants.



But Humphrey Taylor, chief executive of Louis Harris and Associates, was doubtful. "They have a sense of community in Rochester, which just doesn't exist in most places," he said.
Cooperation, not naked, it's all about me and my profits, the hell with everyone else competition which is destroying this country systematically, is the solution.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
wait wait, Obamacare was going to fix/prevent this. Thanks liberals.

Obamacare was the first step towards socialized medicine. Apparently you did not get the memo.

Another important step is to rein in the AMA. It is they who limit the number of doctors that can be produced each year, artificially limiting the market and driving up costs. It is ironic that one of the biggest threats to health care in America is a doctor's cartel. Their actions on this are nothing other than evil.

I fully support the utter decimation of the AMA and private health insurance. Rid the country of these evils and health care in America would become dramatically more affordable.

According to a 2007 study by McKinsey&Company, physician compensation bumps up health care spending in America by $58 billion annually,on average, because U.S. doctors make twice as much as their OECD peers. And even the poorest in specializations like radiology and surgery routinely rake in around $400,000 annually.

Doctors–and many Republicans–constantly carp about the costs of “defensive medicine” because it forces providers to perform unnecessary procedures and tests to insulate them from potential lawsuits. But excessive physician salaries contribute nearly three times more to wasteful health care spending than the $20 billion or so that defensive medicine does. “While the U.S. malpractice system is extraordinary,” the study notes, “it is only a small contributor to the higher cost of health care in the United States.” Meanwhile, other studies have found that doctors’ salaries contribute more to soaring medical costs than the $40 billion or so that the uninsured cost in uncompensated care–the president’s bete noir.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,989
45,176
136
Time for government run medical clinics and gyms, kitchens, and community job training centers all over the country to train the poor to be medics nurses physical trainers and nutritionists, dietitians, and educators to raise the quality of American life to provide a common defense against bad health, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to our posterity.

it seemed to work during WW2
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,166
16,591
136
I remember watching a report on healthcare talked about insurance vs market control and so on. Denmark(?) & Japan had the most controlled and ruthless systems for controlling cost they also had amongst the best scores for patient satisfaction.
We have the least efficient and I'll bet amongst the lowest patient satisfaction scores.
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,442
32
91
wait wait, Obamacare was going to fix/prevent this. Thanks liberals.

Of course not. Obamacare was merely a Republican idea that put a tiny little bandaid on a gaping wound. Obamacare was never designed to address the fundamental flaws of Republicare.

What makes you think that a tiny little mandate that people purchase health insurance combined with some subsidies would address the huge flaws of quasi-free market Republicare?

Perhaps the Republicans' biggest victory was having the Affordable Care Act branded as "Obamacare" and not "Republicare". The basic psuedo-free market system complete with its insurance companies and private for-profit hospitals is Republicare, and that's still what the system is with or without a mandate that people buy insurance.
 
Last edited:

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,562
1,741
126
This isn't a rate increase, it's health care companies positively giddy at their prospects under ObamaCare.

Huge financial moves, mergers, aquisitions, due to all this new promised money from the Goverment/ObamaCare.

-John

Where does the money come from? The Taxpayers!

I know of an acquaintance who made a very low salary last year. He was offered free health care thru Obama Care. He gets free medical, dental, mental counseling, etc... Doesn't have to pay a dime. He had a mole removed 2 weeks ago. That surgery would normally cost nearly $1k. Since he has free health care he pays nothing. He told me that he's going to get his teeth done, and as much as he can because it's free.

Just like all government programs the intentions are good, but with time it gets abused. Certain people make out and other people become dependent on those services. Leaving the middle and upper middle class to foot the bill. The wealthy are much too smart to get abused like we do.

So, keep working those long hard hours. The government needs your money!
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,562
1,741
126
Time for government run medical clinics and gyms, kitchens, and community job training centers all over the country to train the poor to be medics nurses physical trainers and nutritionists, dietitians, and educators to raise the quality of American life to provide a common defense against bad health, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to our posterity.

That's not going to happen.

Why should they when they know you're going to foot the bill.
 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,379
96
86
Obamacare was the first step towards socialized medicine. Apparently you did not get the memo.

Another important step is to rein in the AMA. It is they who limit the number of doctors that can be produced each year, artificially limiting the market and driving up costs. It is ironic that one of the biggest threats to health care in America is a doctor's cartel. Their actions on this are nothing other than evil.

I fully support the utter decimation of the AMA and private health insurance. Rid the country of these evils and health care in America would become dramatically more affordable.

54 billion out of a nearly 3 trillion dollar industry is peanuts, especially when youre talking about the key players in the industry. To compare, if football players were making the same amount of total revenue, you'd end up with some pretty crappy football players. You want to cut costs, allow prescription drugs to be bought on an international market.

And those numbers are complete bullshit, 800000 total physicians in the US with an average salary of 250K leads to $200 billion in total compensation, which is less than 10% of the total healthcare expense in the country.
 
Last edited:

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
The solution is obviously to go with a government run approach such as in other developed nations, where health care outcomes are generally at least as good and yet spending is much lower. Insurance industry adds an egregious premium on all money spent in this sytem.

I wonder if the positive outcomes of those countries are a result of how the healthcare is funded or of the general culture of the populace in their own health needs. Do the bulk of those citizens sit around all day stuffing their faces with twinkies. For many of them does the bulk of their diet get handed to them through a drive through? I would bet not.
 

highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,869
6,234
136
yeah? is anyone really shocked? this is exactly what many said would happen. though i admit i figured we had until obama was out of office.
Eff, I hope not. Hang this around his neck. I'm already paying "my share."
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,667
8,021
136
I wonder if the positive outcomes of those countries are a result of how the healthcare is funded or of the general culture of the populace in their own health needs. Do the bulk of those citizens sit around all day stuffing their faces with twinkies. For many of them does the bulk of their diet get handed to them through a drive through? I would bet not.
I wonder if positive outcomes of those countries are a result of how the healthcare has been universal for decades, allowing the population to receive medical care routinely, rather than simply during exacerbation or emergencies, if even then, since an Emergency Department visit can costs tens of thousands of dollars.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,166
16,591
136
I wonder if the positive outcomes of those countries are a result of how the healthcare is funded or of the general culture of the populace in their own health needs. Do the bulk of those citizens sit around all day stuffing their faces with twinkies. For many of them does the bulk of their diet get handed to them through a drive through? I would bet not.

Look at the graph. We live around a year or two longer than people in Mexico but we spend seven or eight times the amount on healthcare. Lets agree the average Mexican diet isn't very healthy.
Does it sound realistic that if fast food was eliminated we'd spend less than half what we currently spend on healthcare?
 
Last edited:

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
"Sicker than expected."

Woo! USA #1! Best place in the world!


(Assuming they're not just full of it and trying to find an excuse to get more money just because. Gotta keep up that strong stock growth.)



Wow, that sucks. Too bad we couldn't have just let them languish and hopefully die early, and save us all some money. Oh well.

Watch it you guys are getting almost as cognitively dissonant as the republicans.

“Our enrollees generated 24 percent more claims than we thought they would when we set our 2014 rates,” said Nathan T. Johns, the chief financial officer of Arches Health Plan, which covers about one-fourth of the people who bought insurance through the federal exchange in Utah. As a result, the company said, it collected premiums of $39.7 million and had claims of $56.3 million in 2014. It has requested rate increases averaging 45 percent for 2016.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/04/u...es-seek-big-rate-increases-for-2016.html?_r=0

Something tells me if many insurance companies are paying out $56million and taking in $40million that shit isn't sustainable. They weren't the only ones in the article and weren't even the worst. Just a representative sample.

You have to actually wait to see if its working over time. Derp. Anybody can give you a lowball quote.