Health Insurance Companies Seek Big Rate Increases for 2016

[chucky2]

Why do people keep posting average lifetime graphs and attributing US average citizen to other 1st world average citizen? The US average citizen eats complete garbage from childhood to death and hardly exercises, unless the other countries are eating the same thing and getting such little exercise, it's not an apples to apples comparison at all. So why is it being used?

 

[K1052]

Why do people keep posting average lifetime graphs and attributing US average citizen to other 1st world average citizen? The US average citizen eats complete garbage from childhood to death and hardly exercises, unless the other countries are eating the same thing and getting such little exercise, it's not an apples to apples comparison at all. So why is it being used?

Even some european countries that have obesity percentages within 5-8% of us have better life expectancy for less than half the cost per capita.

 

[chucky2]

Even some european countries that have obesity percentages within 5-8% of us have better life expectancy for less than half the cost per capita.

If you can find diets that are the same as ours (or reasonably close enough to ours), exercise rates, and compare the EU (who are covered under their HC system) to our insured US citizen, then by all means, that'd be a legit comparison. But to just take average life expectancy and throw it out there like it's some meaningful factoid...that's just not accurate IMO.

 

[fskimospy]

Why is this a surprise? Insurance companies seek big rate increases every year, but that's not what ends up happening. There was an identical story last year and 2015 continued the trend of low premium inflation. Do you guys know how this works?

Actual news would be if the premiums people end up paying are dramatically higher.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Why do people keep posting average lifetime graphs and attributing US average citizen to other 1st world average citizen? The US average citizen eats complete garbage from childhood to death and hardly exercises, unless the other countries are eating the same thing and getting such little exercise, it's not an apples to apples comparison at all. So why is it being used?

Because we're spending so much for poor results. Do you honestly believe if everyone eat healthier we'd add 2-8 years on our average lifespan plus spend 1/3 the cost on medical care over our lifetime. Does everyone else in the world eat that much better?

 

[K1052]

If you can find diets that are the same as ours (or reasonably close enough to ours), exercise rates, and compare the EU (who are covered under their HC system) to our insured US citizen, then by all means, that'd be a legit comparison. But to just take average life expectancy and throw it out there like it's some meaningful factoid...that's just not accurate IMO.

So your argument is that the US is 2-3 times as unhealthy even though the obesity gap between a number of euro nations and us is nowhere near that, which explains the additional spending. I don't feel that I'm the person who has the burden of proof.

 

[CitizenKain]

Where does the money come from? The Taxpayers!

I know of an acquaintance who made a very low salary last year. He was offered free health care thru Obama Care. He gets free medical, dental, mental counseling, etc... Doesn't have to pay a dime. He had a mole removed 2 weeks ago. That surgery would normally cost nearly $1k. Since he has free health care he pays nothing. He told me that he's going to get his teeth done, and as much as he can because it's free.

Lets make up shit, that helps your argument.

 

[JSt0rm]

If we went single payer I could negotiate my health benifits as salary. Oh that would be nice.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Why do people keep posting average lifetime graphs and attributing US average citizen to other 1st world average citizen? The US average citizen eats complete garbage from childhood to death and hardly exercises, unless the other countries are eating the same thing and getting such little exercise, it's not an apples to apples comparison at all. So why is it being used?

It shows that even under evil socialized medicine, people can be healthier. According to the free market morons, people are supposed to die quickly as a result of a dysfunctional health care system under socialized medicine.

Also, the differences in percentage of GDP/real dollars spent on health care between the United States and other nations are so extreme that it's difficult to simply dismiss it based on diet/exercise/lifestyle/workplace stress.

One thing to keep in mind about those numbers is that those other nations have 100% coverage whereas the American expenses don't include 100% coverage. Not only are those people in other nations spending less, but they're doing it with 100% coverage, zero medical bankruptcies, and a populace that's not terrified of job loss. The American expenses may also fail to include ancillary costs of the American system such as the amount of money American businesses spend on benefits plans, the costs of insurance brokers, the costs of medical-cost induced bankruptcies, etc.

Part of what we may be witnessing is that the cost of potentially providing 100% coverage under the American pseudo-free market (aka "Republicare") system is even higher than the 17+% of GDP that we were previously spending on health care. In other words, Republicare is so inefficient that to have 100% coverage, the percentage of GDP needs to increase to, say, 20% of GDP. In contrast, those evil Western European and Asian "people's states" are able to do it for 12% of GDP or less.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Because we're spending so much for poor results. Do you honestly believe if everyone eat healthier we'd add 2-8 years on our average lifespan plus spend 1/3 the cost on medical care over our lifetime. Does everyone else in the world eat that much better?

Ironically, if Americans spent less money on health care they might have more money that could be used to purchase healthier foods and to live a healthier lifestyle.

 

[Darwin333]

Free market healthcare fail.

CEO and executive salaries too big.

Too many people getting paid to push insurance paperwork while failing to provide actual health care.

Yall always look at the wrong thing when discussing the cost of insurance. It's not the management costs that makes it so damn expensive it's the insane costs of health care (the product they are insuring) that drives the cost.

A rather easy comparison to make is the cost of a natural childbirth. There isn't a lot of change or radically expensive new technologies they use in a natural childbirth without complications. In fact women and babies both stay in the hospital roughly 1/3 as long as they did in 1960. Adjusted for inflation in 1960 cost an average of $964 ($120 in 1960). In 2013 the cost of a natural childbirth with no complications was $18,329 and is almost surely at or over $20,000 today.

It's the rising cost of healthcare that is driving the cost of insurance more than anything else and should be where we focus our attention. Instead we focus it almost entirely on the cost of insurance because that is what we "see".

 

[Slew Foot]

Yall always look at the wrong thing when discussing the cost of insurance. It's not the management costs that makes it so damn expensive it's the insane costs of health care (the product they are insuring) that drives the cost.

A rather easy comparison to make is the cost of a natural childbirth. There isn't a lot of change or radically expensive new technologies they use in a natural childbirth without complications. In fact women and babies both stay in the hospital roughly 1/3 as long as they did in 1960. Adjusted for inflation in 1960 cost an average of $964 ($120 in 1960). In 2013 the cost of a natural childbirth with no complications was $18,329 and is almost surely at or over $20,000 today.

It's the rising cost of healthcare that is driving the cost of insurance more than anything else and should be where we focus our attention. Instead we focus it almost entirely on the cost of insurance because that is what we "see".

Yeah but noone actually pays the cost. The insurance company likes to trot that cost out there to make it seem like you really need insurance. The hospital likes to toss that number out there for the one in a hundred person that will actually pay it. Has the actual cost risen over inflation over the past fifty years? yes, now just look to see what actually has contributed to that increase over the last fifty year. Hint, NOT doctors salaries.

 

[Wreckem]

My September 2015- August 2016 rates were announced last week. They are up a whopping $16.

 

[piasabird]

This has all been brought about by people with communists like Pelosi and Obama. Not only will they raise rates but the Government (You and Me) will be helping them to pay for some of their losses. This is built into ACA. My company just had a meeting and they announced all kind of copays and deductibles we will have to pay because if we don't the insurance will cost too much and they will be hit with a Cadillac health care tax or penalty. All thanks to idiots who voted for Obama.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

This has all been brought about by people with communists like Pelosi and Obama. Not only will they raise rates but the Government (You and Me) will be helping them to pay for some of their losses. This is built into ACA. My company just had a meeting and they announced all kind of copays and deductibles we will have to pay because if we don't the insurance will cost too much and they will be hit with a Cadillac health care tax or penalty. All thanks to idiots who voted for Obama.

Bummer I guess its time for single payer

 

[Darwin333]

Yeah but noone actually pays the cost. The insurance company likes to trot that cost out there to make it seem like you really need insurance. The hospital likes to toss that number out there for the one in a hundred person that will actually pay it. Has the actual cost risen over inflation over the past fifty years? yes, now just look to see what actually has contributed to that increase over the last fifty year. Hint, NOT doctors salaries.

No, that's actually exactly what it costs "someone", usually the insurance company after they negotiate it down. I said nothing about doctor's salaries, regardless of how fast they have or have not risen it's rather insignificant in the overall cost.

 

[nickqt]

This has all been brought about by people with communists like Pelosi and Obama. Not only will they raise rates but the Government (You and Me) will be helping them to pay for some of their losses. This is built into ACA. My company just had a meeting and they announced all kind of copays and deductibles we will have to pay because if we don't the insurance will cost too much and they will be hit with a Cadillac health care tax or penalty. All thanks to idiots who voted for Obama.

Communists.

You're a joke.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Yall always look at the wrong thing when discussing the cost of insurance. It's not the management costs that makes it so damn expensive it's the insane costs of health care (the product they are insuring) that drives the cost.

A rather easy comparison to make is the cost of a natural childbirth. There isn't a lot of change or radically expensive new technologies they use in a natural childbirth without complications. In fact women and babies both stay in the hospital roughly 1/3 as long as they did in 1960. Adjusted for inflation in 1960 cost an average of $964 ($120 in 1960). In 2013 the cost of a natural childbirth with no complications was $18,329 and is almost surely at or over $20,000 today.

It's the rising cost of healthcare that is driving the cost of insurance more than anything else and should be where we focus our attention. Instead we focus it almost entirely on the cost of insurance because that is what we "see".

It's not simply rising 'health care costs'. There are a number of components including administration costs.

For example, from a study comparing costs in the US and Canada and released in 2010:

"Results of administrative costs are presented in Table 2. Calculations for non-clinical staff were discussed earlier. There were 44% fewer non-clinical workers per 1,000 population in Canada than in the United States. Therefore, the United States would realize $306 per capita (44% * $696) in savings—or 19% of the total difference in spending—if it were to reduce the volume of non-clinical staff to the level of Canada."

...

"Together, hospital and medical office administration accounted for $616 per capita, or 39% of the total spending difference."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3024588/

 

[Victorian Gray]

This has all been brought about by people with communists like Pelosi and Obama. Not only will they raise rates but the Government (You and Me) will be helping them to pay for some of their losses. This is built into ACA. My company just had a meeting and they announced all kind of copays and deductibles we will have to pay because if we don't the insurance will cost too much and they will be hit with a Cadillac health care tax or penalty. All thanks to idiots who voted for Obama.

Could you explain why these "communists" created a system that actually benefits private, for profit insurance companies? I'm sure that your explanation will be fascinating.

 

[nickqt]

Could you explain why these "communists" created a system that actually benefits private, for profit insurance companies? I'm sure that your explanation will be fascinating.

I can explain it in one word:

Benghazi.

 

[Slew Foot]

No, that's actually exactly what it costs "someone", usually the insurance company after they negotiate it down. I said nothing about doctor's salaries, regardless of how fast they have or have not risen it's rather insignificant in the overall cost.

Bull crap, as the CFO of the local medical group, I know exactly what we get from insurance, its around 10K for a regular delivery from a Blue Cross or around 4K from Medi-cal (the hospital charge is over 30K, we'll take 8k in cash if someone asks). The actual cost of a 3 day stay without complications and using a minimum amount of meds, Id estimate is around 6-7k.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I can explain it in one word:

Benghazi.

You keep taunting me and I'm weak, ever so weak

 

[chucky2]

Because we're spending so much for poor results. Do you honestly believe if everyone eat healthier we'd add 2-8 years on our average lifespan plus spend 1/3 the cost on medical care over our lifetime. Does everyone else in the world eat that much better?

Does everyone else eat as unhealthy as us and on top of that get so little exercise as us? Beats me, 20 seconds of Google produced this:

Of course, not knowing what types of nutrition led to those obesity rates, what affects those different foods have on the long term health of the human body (you could be fat but fat on foods that aren't going to affect your mortality as much as other foods will), or physical activity among young and adults all will come into play.

So your argument is that the US is 2-3 times as unhealthy even though the obesity gap between a number of euro nations and us is nowhere near that, which explains the additional spending. I don't feel that I'm the person who has the burden of proof.

Oh, I think you misunderstand my gripe. It's not that we have a terribly inefficient system - we do. It's not that I don't want to see Single Payer - I do (and we'd of had it if it wasn't for the sellout Dem Pols). My point is that throwing up an average mortality rate for countries and attribute that to our health care system alone is very misleading. Even if we get Single Payer, it's not like people in the south are going to give up their wonderful tasting fried foods. They're going to overeat really bad food for them just like they've always done. They're going to never go to the doctor until they start feeling really bad, just like they've always done. They're going to ignore their doctors just like they've always done. Same for everyone else in the US. Just because they have HC doesn't mean they're going to magically start doing what they should to eat and live better - they won't (not to any awesomesauce degree). Sure, now that the financial burden is less they'll go into the doc once a year - maybe - and sure, their liver cancer will be detected a few months early, so % wise, they might have a better outcome and help our stats. But the 60 years of bad eating that led them to that? They're going to not do that because we get Single Payer? And that's going to make our mortality rates plummet? Haha...No. Not going to happen.

 

[Darwin333]

It's not simply rising 'health care costs'. There are a number of components including administration costs.

For example, from a study comparing costs in the US and Canada and released in 2010:

"Results of administrative costs are presented in Table 2. Calculations for non-clinical staff were discussed earlier. There were 44% fewer non-clinical workers per 1,000 population in Canada than in the United States. Therefore, the United States would realize $306 per capita (44% * $696) in savings—or 19% of the total difference in spending—if it were to reduce the volume of non-clinical staff to the level of Canada."

...

"Together, hospital and medical office administration accounted for $616 per capita, or 39% of the total spending difference."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3024588/

I completely agree and include that in the cost of healthcare. The .gov is not at all innocent in the necessity for their part in the above costs though. You see more providers refusing medicare/medicaid due to that (and other factors) then you see them refusing private insurance.

My point is still rather simple. Try going to the hospital and paying cash. They don't require a huge billing department for you, they don't have to waste time negotiating very complex contracts, they don't have to wait months to get paid, etc... and you will see the true problem with healthcare in our country. If it's such a pain in the ass and expensive to bill insurance companies it should obviously be cheaper to walk in with cash in hand.

The cost of healthcare (not insurance) has been rising well above inflation and salaries for quite a long time, the law of exponents is a cruel bitch and we are just starting to get bit by it.

 

[MongGrel]

Communists.

You're a joke.

I thought Communists were those someone else made a thread about driving multiple $250 thousand dollar cars around and going to college in the US.

You know, those Chinese guys.