Health care freeloaders.

[cybrsage]

Shows the dems could only agree to create garbage.

 

[Arglebargle]

Shows the dems could only agree to create garbage.

What alternate reality is that from?

Based on a Republican plan, with some of the good parts stripped out. To get the blue dogs and the few brave dissenters onboard. As a part of the do-nothing strategy, the very people who championed the concept earlier declared it anathema.

 

[glenn1]

I'm pretty pissed off. How come over half of working Americans are getting their health insurance subsidized by the slightly less than half Americans who don't get health insurance from their employers?

What happened to any semblence of fairness? Its an outrage! Why are poorer Americans subsidizing health insurance for those better off?

To answer your "why" question, because of wage controls imposed during WW2 by the FDR administration. The War Labor Board allowed fringe benefits (including health insurance) to be excluded from these controls, and Congress confirmed their tax advantaged status in 1953.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Nah, not a tax. Just 2.5% you can't deduct of your medical. Assuming I have remembered it correctly.

If I make 100K - I am in the 30% bracket.
I have 10K in medical expenses no covered by insurance
at present, I can not deduct anything less than 7500 medical - an automatic $2400 being grabbed

Able to deduct 2500.
30% of 2500 is $800 of taxes taxes that I did not have to pay.

Now someone is reaching in for the last 2500 of expenses that I was deducting.

Kiss that $800 goodby.

Taxes do not get raised;:hmm: just the cost basis gets adjusted. 🙁

 

[highland145]

If I make 100K - I am in the 30% bracket.
I have 10K in medical expenses no covered by insurance
at present, I can not deduct anything less than 7500 medical - an automatic $2400 being grabbed

Able to deduct 2500.
30% of 2500 is $800 of taxes taxes that I did not have to pay.

Now someone is reaching in for the last 2500 of expenses that I was deducting.

Kiss that $800 goodby.

Taxes do not get raised;:hmm: just the cost basis gets adjusted. 🙁

A pleasure doing business with you.

 

[JimKiler]

Just playing devil's advocate here: why? Why should healthcare expenses be tax deductible, but not rent, food, clothes, utilities, gym membership, car, gas, or anything else?

I brought that up in my tax class, a company can deduct their expenses but a person who is a parent cannot deduct the cost of a child, maybe we should challenge that since the supreme court is stating corporations have the same rights as people.

 

[techs]

I brought that up in my tax class, a company can deduct their expenses but a person who is a parent cannot deduct the cost of a child, maybe we should challenge that since the supreme court is stating corporations have the same rights as people.

If I sell someone something I make that I know is dangerous and the product kills them I go to jail.

If a corporation makes something it knows is dangerous and the product kills them they pay a fine.

Explain to me again how corporations are people?

 

[JimKiler]

If I sell someone something I make that I know is dangerous and the product kills them I go to jail.

If a corporation makes something it knows is dangerous and the product kills them they pay a fine.

Explain to me again how corporations are people?

I totally agree with you, we need to hold corporations more accountable if they are people and at the same time congress should draft laws that make them less like people.

Of course the government could stop giving corporation tax breaks for excessive pay when it is tied to metrics. All stock options are tied to metrics and that is a lot of lost taxed revenue.

 

[dank69]

I brought that up in my tax class, a company can deduct their expenses but a person who is a parent cannot deduct the cost of a child, maybe we should challenge that since the supreme court is stating corporations have the same rights as people.

Isn't the standard dependent deduction supposed to be for COL? 😕

 

[dank69]

But that would be a tax increase on everyone...Obama would NEVER do that? (hides the ACA)

Is the ACA a tax increase on everyone or just the ~10% who don't carry insurance? Of that 10%, how many don't carry insurance because they couldn't get it due to pre-existing conditions? Thanks to the ACA, they will be able to get coverage again, so that ~10% becomes what?

 

[JimKiler]

Isn't the standard dependent deduction supposed to be for COL? 😕

Maybe it covered cost of living in 1914 but not even close today. If corporations only were allowed to deduct $2500 compared to their expenses, the US government would be debt free!

 

[WackyDan]

Is the ACA a tax increase on everyone or just the ~10% who don't carry insurance? Of that 10%, how many don't carry insurance because they couldn't get it due to pre-existing conditions? Thanks to the ACA, they will be able to get coverage again, so that ~10% becomes what?

The ACA is a tax increase on EVERYONE... and hits the middle class hard.

http://www.atr.org/full-list-obamacare-tax-hikes-listed-a7010

And if you think that the taxes on companies and industry segments don't trickle down to consumers - you would be sadly mistaken....

And aside from the ACA... we still have the Bush tax cuts ultimately being allowed to expire at some point unless they are extended or made perpetual.

 

[dank69]

The ACA is a tax increase on EVERYONE... and hits the middle class hard.

http://www.atr.org/full-list-obamacare-tax-hikes-listed-a7010

And if you think that the taxes on companies and industry segments don't trickle down to consumers - you would be sadly mistaken....

And aside from the ACA... we still have the Bush tax cuts ultimately being allowed to expire at some point unless they are extended or made perpetual.

So $200,000+ is middle class to you?

 

[boomerang]

WTF are you driveling on about?

You ain't seen nothin' yet.

Hide the children. Something wicked this way comes.

 

[WackyDan]

So $200,000+ is middle class to you?

Let' see. Did you bother to read?

FSA's are now capped at $2500... I have a daughter who was born 13 weeks early and has high medical costs... We relied on my company's cap of $5200 to help with our out of pocket expenses... Now, I have $2700 applicable to federal and state income/medicaid/SSI taxes that weren't before.

Now... FSA's were designed to help with the rising cost of out of pocket health care expenses. The ACA diminishes that aspect - Now, can you explain to me why that is being tinkered with when the ACA was supposed to improve health care for all? Can you explain how that isn't a tax increase? Try me... I'm listening... Popping the pop corn as I type this.

That is just one cost increase to the middle class.

And what is with this freaking income envy? Is $200k middle class? Depends where you live in this country of ours... You want to live in NYC... it is middle class... You want to live in east butt scratch Montana, then you are upper middle and doing fantastic if you can manage your funds.

Every time I hear somebody question a six figure income as being rich or not middle class it just makes me cringe. Is it a comfortable living? Yes, not denying it gives you less to worry about, but easy come easy go. I was making six figures for 3 years leading up to 2010 and my layoff....Easy come, easy go. Thanks to that income and some humble living before that, my family didn't have to go on medicaid, foods stamps, or any other form of public assistance... we didn't lose the modest home, or the cars.... We didn't become parasites on society...

... And you know what? We should have every right to partake in those safety nets in that situation as that ended up being short term. However, because we have equity in the house, vehicles, a 401k.... those all preclude us from being able to partake if we needed to... See, you have to be pretty dirt poor for the full gamut of public assistance - Why? Because of all the lifers that were born into welfare and never get off it.

Ten months later I was re-employed making six figures again. I pay plenty in taxes so that the welfare queens are housed, fed, and can sit at home popping out more unwanted babies that will never graduate high school. Not everyone on long term social assistance is a loser, criminal, or baby factory... But we have created a class of voter in this country that will always vote for the party that pandered this all to them starting with the New Deal on....

So... read the article, take a class on business anything and tell me again how the ACA isn't the largest tax increase on the middle class of America.

*I'm all for fixing the health care offerings in this country, but a one sided health plan with big handouts to big pharma and the health insurers is obviously business as usual in our political body today.

 

[cybrsage]

What alternate reality is that from?.

The one you fled when you went to your invented world...the one the rest of us call real life.

It is simple. If the ACA is a piece of garbage (which it is), and if the dems crafted it by themselves - going as far as to literally lock the republicans out of the discussions (which they did), then the dems created a piece of garbage.

Did you follow along, or do I need to call out Elmo to explain it to you?

 

[cybrsage]

Explain to me again how corporations are people?

They are not, they are US Persons.

 

[nehalem256]

Every time I hear somebody question a six figure income as being rich or not middle class it just makes me cringe. Is it a comfortable living? Yes, not denying it gives you less to worry about, but easy come easy go. I was making six figures for 3 years leading up to 2010 and my layoff....Easy come, easy go. Thanks to that income and some humble living before that, my family didn't have to go on medicaid, foods stamps, or any other form of public assistance... we didn't lose the modest home, or the cars.... We didn't become parasites on society...

... And you know what? We should have every right to partake in those safety nets in that situation as that ended up being short term. However, because we have equity in the house, vehicles, a 401k.... those all preclude us from being able to partake if we needed to... See, you have to be pretty dirt poor for the full gamut of public assistance - Why? Because of all the lifers that were born into welfare and never get off it.

Ten months later I was re-employed making six figures again. I pay plenty in taxes so that the welfare queens are housed, fed, and can sit at home popping out more unwanted babies that will never graduate high school. Not everyone on long term social assistance is a loser, criminal, or baby factory... But we have created a class of voter in this country that will always vote for the party that pandered this all to them starting with the New Deal on....
.

Thank you for providing a real life example of what I have said. Government assistance should go to those who DESERVE it. Not those who NEED it.

If anything medicaid should be cut for those at the lowest income levels and instead extended to those a step up.

 

[cybrsage]

Is the ACA a tax increase on everyone or just the ~10% who don't carry insurance? Of that 10%, how many don't carry insurance because they couldn't get it due to pre-existing conditions? Thanks to the ACA, they will be able to get coverage again, so that ~10% becomes what?

Everyone. If you have insurance, you get a credit to offset the tax increase.

 

[WackyDan]

Thank you for providing a real life example of what I have said. Government assistance should go to those who DESERVE it. Not those who NEED it.

If anything medicaid should be cut for those at the lowest income levels and instead extended to those a step up.

It will never fly. The libs and progs believe health care is a right - Fine... I can live with that to a degree. They also feel that it is entirely unfair if I have better health care/insurance than anyone else even though I work for it, even though because of that I produce more taxable income. They will never sign off on a compromise of a tiered system where you get the care commensurate with how productive you are in society. That to me is golden... I would actually be more favorable towards that level of gov't sanctioned single payer... It is essentially what we have now anyway via our employer provided plans in the private sector.

I have a buddy who is on Social Security Disability for life. He has no use of his legs since a bad accident six years ago. He worked full time before that doing physical labor.. paying his due in taxes. He is wheel chair bound but still works near full time in a different career now. In return for his productivity he gets less on his SSI checks, but he is happy as he makes more by working and he is active... SS sent him a letter and stopped paying him last year claiming he was no longer paralyzed. They arbitrarily did this. They didn't have a physician review, they didn't send an investigator to see if he was faking it... Just stopped payments and left it to him to appeal. He had to drive 90 miles to hearings multiple times to straighten it out. What a waste of his time and more importantly the SS resources that should have been focusing on real problems... Took him over six months to get reinstated and he is still fighting them for the back checks. Yet... We have welfare lifers that never have to prove a thing other than how dirt poor they are.

Here is another one I love. My daughter was born at 1 pound 4.2 ounces and 13 weeks early. The NICU/Hospital Social worker wanted us to sign up for Medicaid. I thought it was because they knew I was unemployed at the time...But the reality is the federal gov't rates any baby born under 2 pounds as disabled and the baby qualifies for Medicaid regardless of parent's assets. The hospital wanted her on Medicaid as that ensures they got paid if my private insurance (Continued via COBRA at the time) failed to pay them. We went along with it... Figured it might help her later in life if she needs it once we are gone... Only supposed to be on it a few years until she is caught up developmentally ( so far so good)... We haven't had to have Medicaid pay anything, but that is an excellent example of what a safety net should be... We still had to interview with the SSI office and disclose all of our assets even though they weren't supposed to be counted... I learned something that day... regardless of our house and 401k... The value of my 13 year old truck would have been enough to disqualify us if they did count our assets... It was sobering.

I've had people tell "How can you talk about Medicaid if you've never had to be on it?"... the beauty of that is I get all the medicaid paperwork for my daughter.. and every six months it seems I get one explaining how certain care is being cut to Medicaid recipients.... Yes... that is a great system of gov't paid healthcare we have when it is collapsing in on itself... What do they think adding 32 million more Medicaid recipients is going to do? I hope I stay productive and that my daughter will never have to find out once we are dead.

 

[dank69]

Let' see. Did you bother to read?

FSA's are now capped at $2500... I have a daughter who was born 13 weeks early and has high medical costs... We relied on my company's cap of $5200 to help with our out of pocket expenses... Now, I have $2700 applicable to federal and state income/medicaid/SSI taxes that weren't before.

Now... FSA's were designed to help with the rising cost of out of pocket health care expenses. The ACA diminishes that aspect - Now, can you explain to me why that is being tinkered with when the ACA was supposed to improve health care for all? Can you explain how that isn't a tax increase? Try me... I'm listening... Popping the pop corn as I type this.

That is just one cost increase to the middle class.

And what is with this freaking income envy? Is $200k middle class? Depends where you live in this country of ours... You want to live in NYC... it is middle class... You want to live in east butt scratch Montana, then you are upper middle and doing fantastic if you can manage your funds.

Every time I hear somebody question a six figure income as being rich or not middle class it just makes me cringe. Is it a comfortable living? Yes, not denying it gives you less to worry about, but easy come easy go. I was making six figures for 3 years leading up to 2010 and my layoff....Easy come, easy go. Thanks to that income and some humble living before that, my family didn't have to go on medicaid, foods stamps, or any other form of public assistance... we didn't lose the modest home, or the cars.... We didn't become parasites on society...

... And you know what? We should have every right to partake in those safety nets in that situation as that ended up being short term. However, because we have equity in the house, vehicles, a 401k.... those all preclude us from being able to partake if we needed to... See, you have to be pretty dirt poor for the full gamut of public assistance - Why? Because of all the lifers that were born into welfare and never get off it.

Ten months later I was re-employed making six figures again. I pay plenty in taxes so that the welfare queens are housed, fed, and can sit at home popping out more unwanted babies that will never graduate high school. Not everyone on long term social assistance is a loser, criminal, or baby factory... But we have created a class of voter in this country that will always vote for the party that pandered this all to them starting with the New Deal on....

So... read the article, take a class on business anything and tell me again how the ACA isn't the largest tax increase on the middle class of America.

*I'm all for fixing the health care offerings in this country, but a one sided health plan with big handouts to big pharma and the health insurers is obviously business as usual in our political body today.

So bottom line is yes you think single $200k/family $250k is middle class. LOL. Of course you do, because if you lived in reality with the rest of the population you would have to admit that this law does not affect the middle class like you say it does. Other than the FSA cap, nothing on that page affects the middle class, and even that probably doesn't affect a majority. Huge burden to the middle class. 🙄

 

[dank69]

Everyone. If you have insurance, you get a credit to offset the tax increase.

There is no tax increase and credit. It is a penalty. A penalty most people (90%+) won't ever be affected by.

 

[nehalem256]

So bottom line is yes you think single $200k/family $250k is middle class. LOL. Of course you do, because if you lived in reality with the rest of the population you would have to admit that this law does not affect the middle class like you say it does. Other than the FSA cap, nothing on that page affects the middle class, and even that probably doesn't affect a majority. Huge burden to the middle class. 🙄

Well to be fair he said 6 Figure.

And of course if you read his next post you will learn that according to the government a 13 year old truck makes you not poor.

 

[WackyDan]

Well to be fair he said 6 Figure.

And of course if you read his next post you will learn that according to the government a 13 year old truck makes you not poor.

That I did. I'm still waiting though for him to tell me that 200k in NYC is upper middle class or rich.

And no.. I don't make over 250k... or 200k... But I make six figures. Maybe he should explain where the middle class divides are... I want to see what his general idea of lower middle, middle, and upper are and if he believes that where you live/cost of living doesn't factor into that.

In early 2006 I was making $60k-$65k at 36 years old. Is that too much? By 2010 I had entered a new employer, exceeded all their expectations and was at $101K when I was laid off. Picked up a new job eight months later at $109k. Is that too much? Am I rich? Doesn't feel like it. Maybe I'd feel a bit more rich if I had been making that kind of coin for several years prior.... Last week I changed to a new role at the same company.... My earnings should come in between $130k and $151K - which is my maximum on target earnings. (Systems/Sales Engineer). Is that too much? I really need to know... Because I get the feeling that he is telling me that all my hard work and persistence... the delay in getting to this earning level and the late start at saving for retirement is all for nothing, was purely luck, I don't deserve it... or something. All I'm sniffing out here is envy from him when he forgets that I had to start somewhere, at a much lower pay grade... Like him...

Now I'm just getting testy.

 

[cybrsage]

There is no tax increase and credit. It is a penalty. A penalty most people (90%+) won't ever be affected by.

You are wrong, the SCOTUS is right. Get used to it. Everyone is affected by it - you have to file a form showing you have insurance so you get the credit to offset the new tax.