HDR, do we really need it?

[linkgoron]

Well, I've heard a lot about HDR and how it's really cool and stuff, but is it really worth the FPS hit (Which is big from what I've seen)?
So your "eyes" need to adjust when you move from dark to light places and things are shiny and all that... Does it really add anything to the gameplay? It doesn't seem very noticable anyway, and it looks like you have to look for it to know where it shows up... So what do you guys think?
Also, I think it will make some maps in future games really one sided(in MP games. In CSS for example it will make assault even more one sided, because one team is in a dark place, and the other is in a light place, so basically the Ts will slaughter the CTs, because the CTs will have to wait a few secs for their "eyes" to adjust...

 

[Ackmed]

Yes we need it. We just need it like Valve has added it. It doesnt cut your frames in half, and it can be used with AA at the same time.

Not like Farcrys where it kills the frames, forcing you to lower the res to get better frames, and not being able to add AA to clean up the jaggies. It can look really good in Farcry though, but it can also look too fake.

If implemented right, I like it a lot. It just seems devs get too happy with it, and go overboard. HL2's *seems* (havent actually got to play it yet) to be the best yet. I also like Splinter Cell's as well.

 

[DRavisher]

Yupp it's definately worth it. It's the biggest thing since AA and AF became usable IMO. FarCrys implementation was more like a demo of what HDR was. It wasn't meant to be a complete quality feature in the game. I was very happy with it because it showed what could be done, and now i'm looking forward to the games with this implemented all the way (aftermath and Unreal Engine 3 games).

Edit: And the hit for G70 is not very large at all really. They did some pretty good optimizations in G70 over NV40 judging from the Lost Coast benches i've seen.

 

[rbV5]

HDR also means far more than just "Bloom" also. We certainly don't "need" HDR, but anything that adds to the gaming experience is something I "want". It may have more usefullness in Video and photography, but HDR use in gaming will only get more support going forward.

 

[xtknight]

I love HDR. Couldn't live without it. It's not the bloom I love, but the tone mapping is stunning. Now someone go buy me that $49,000 HDR LCD posted here a day ago.

 

[CP5670]

I don't like that blooming effect (which I think is only in Far Cry), but the lighting and colors look awesome.

 

[orangat]

It brightens up the shadowy areas where campers like to lurk.

 

[Munky]

I wouldnt say we "need" it, but it's nice to have if it's implemented right. From looking at the Lost Coast screens and video, I'd say it's definitely worth it if your card can handle it, and you can still use AA, so it doesnt make you sacrifice other features.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

We need it. Sure it cuts FPS in half, but we don'tn eed it NOW so to speak. We need it sooner or later, and graphics cards makers should start realizing that. Remember when AA first came out? We were like omg cutting a GF2's fill rate in 1/4 with 4xAA = killer =(. Yea, now we all p lay with 8xAF, 4xAA if not 16xAF even...

 

[hans030390]

for HL2 games and next gen games that use it correctly, yes you need it. It offers a good IQ boost and doesnt kill performance like some "older" hdr games did...like far cry.

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: DRavisher


Edit: And the hit for G70 is not very large at all really. They did some pretty good optimizations in G70 over NV40 judging from the Lost Coast benches i've seen.

Sorry, but you couldnt be more wrong.

30fps@1600x1200 in Farcry with HDR.

66fps@1600x1200 4xAA/16xAF in Farcry with no HDR.

Thats a VERY large hit, not to mention the AA/AF is there as well. Without them, the frames would likely be well over 80.

edit, forgot link; http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_7800_gtx/page13.asp

 

[ddogg]

ya i would definetely go for it but it should be implemented properly unlike AOE3!

 

[Turtle 1]

YEP get me one of those LCD'S and let me see how HDR looks on it . Imagine thinking you could reach out and grab something off your screen.

 

[deadlock]

Originally posted by: AckmedSorry, but you couldnt be more wrong.

He was referring to the LC benches he saw, not the performance hit in Far Cry.

The hit in Far Cry is huge, but the implementation of HDR in Far Cry was done more as a showcase of the technology, rather than a development goal. As a result, it uses the OpenEXR method of rendering HDR, which neccesitates disabling FSAA, and is not in the slightest bit optimized to make the most of graphical performance. The implementation of HDR in Far Cry was done more to whet your appetite.

Splinter Cell also uses the OpenEXR method of rendering HDR, but does so with a much smaller performance hit compared to Far Cry.

The new generation of games will use native shaders to render HDR (in the same way nVidia's Luna demo does), which enables the use of FSAA. This method, along with the basic development goal of including HDR in the games from the outset (and thus including the resultant optimizations), will mean that the HDR performance hit on modern cards will be minimal.

Knowledge is key before lashing out, young Padawan.

 

[EightySix Four]

I think when implemented properly, and when it becomes a less performance hit, it will be a huge thing. The uses of it beyond what we have now are pretty cool to me. I think lost coast will make or break it as a must have at this very moment though.

 

[compgeek89]

Incase u didnt notice, the total fps loss with the 7800 GTX in Lost Coast is 3... 75 -> 72. The newer cards with more pipes take it in stride. Technology has to move forward.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Turtle 1
YEP get me one of those LCD'S and let me see how HDR looks on it . Imagine thinking you could reach out and grab something off your screen.

Teh Turtle! Yeah, you think you could "grab things off the screen" with HDR, things all of the sudden magically look like real stuff if you have a LCD and HDR!

 

[EightySix Four]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Turtle 1
YEP get me one of those LCD'S and let me see how HDR looks on it . Imagine thinking you could reach out and grab something off your screen.

Teh Turtle! Yeah, you think you could "grab things off the screen" with HDR, things all of the sudden magically look like real stuff if you have a LCD and HDR!

wth?

 

[VIAN]

It depends.

 

[Pete]

We need is as much as we needed the move from 16-bit to 32-bit (remember the green-brown textures in Quake-engined games like SoF and Kingpin during the Voodoo/TNT days?). It is inevitable! (One more time? /Team America)

 

[5150Joker]

I'm on the sidelines about this. So far most implementations I have seen have left me unimpressed though I believe Kameo by Rare for XB360 utilizes it in a pretty good way. I'm looking forward to seeing how well Valve pulled it off with Source.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Pete
We need is as much as we needed the move from 16-bit to 32-bit (remember the green-brown textures in Quake-engined games like SoF and Kingpin during the Voodoo/TNT days?). It is inevitable! (One more time? /Team America)

Uuuughhh..piss/vomit textures.

 

[fliguy84]

yup we need HDR. it's the next best thing after AA and AF, and it's been a long time since we can improve image quality with just increasing AA and AF. sure the fps hit is there, but for me it's worth it

 

[Turtle 1]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Turtle 1
YEP get me one of those LCD'S and let me see how HDR looks on it . Imagine thinking you could reach out and grab something off your screen.

Teh Turtle! Yeah, you think you could "grab things off the screen" with HDR, things all of the sudden magically look like real stuff if you have a LCD and HDR!

Rollo I was talking about that $45000 lcd that was threaded yesterday it sounded pretty incredable

 

[BFG10K]

Yes we need it. We just need it like Valve has added it. It doesnt cut your frames in half, and it can be used with AA at the same time.

Agreed 100%. Currently I don't think nVidia's FP blending approach is viable until it allows AA.

remember the green-brown textures in Quake-engined games like SoF

SOF actually had a lot of colour in its textures.