HDCP DRM finally really cracked wide open

[PingSpike]

Worse: When I actually WANT to go back during a trailer and they've gotten carried away, disabling my ability to go BACK! FFFFFUUUUUuuuuuuuu!!!!

HTPC + AnyDVD HD...fo lyfe, yo.

It's ridiculous now. I was commenting to my wife the other day that I wished we still had VHS tapes. VHS fucking tapes! They're awful! But the shit they're doing with DVDs has just made them so awful I think the tradeoff isn't worth it anymore. At least tapes fucking did what I told them too, and they'd play past a bad spot on the tape instead of locking up and requiring me to unplug the dvd player for a half hour before it will let me try again (this is seriously how it works with my DVD player...WTF?) It shouldn't be a soul crushing scream fest to watch a god damn DVD.

And of course, these are all legal rental copies! I'd imagine pirates just strip this shit right off.

 

[InflatableBuddha]

Perhaps I've got the tinfoil hat on too tight, but I don't think pirating is the reason for DRM, rather an excuse. Preventing second hand sales and all that, at least in the gaming world.

In general, I don't think anyone here is advocating pirating. They just don't appreciate the bullshit that comes along with the DRM (amen to locking fast forward and making me watch anti piracy ads for a movie i bought...wtf).

I suppose this is a childish view, but I don't feel like the RIAA or MPAA have any respect for me, so why should I give a shit about them? I haven't pirated anything since I was a kid, but I'm extremely cheap when it comes to media. Generally I try to spend no more than $10 on movies/cds and $20 on games. Often times this means I'm purchasing used goods, something I believe the content producers would love to stop.

Good point regarding second-hand sales. Obviously if media companies can sell you a brand-new product, they make a large profit, but they don't make anything when you buy second-hand.

There will always be people who will pay full price just to have a new product, and some who will pay for the convenience, but a lot of people go used because it's cheaper and basically the same quality.

Really, what's wrong with me selling my used DVDs for cheap if I don't want to watch them anymore? Or trading them to a friend for his used DVDs? People do it with books all the time, and in fact nobody raises a stink about used bookstores, likely because there's far less money to be made in physical books nowadays than in electronic media.

Having said this, I do torrent some stuff: older TV programs (which is essentially the same as when people taped stuff off of TV years ago), and foreign TV shows such as Top Gear (I couldn't even buy Top Gear in stores in Canada if I wanted to).

But I buy music from iTunes and I rent or buy movies if I can't borrow from a friend (and I don't copy when I do borrow).

If there's a legal and reasonably priced way to get content I want, I'll go that route. I don't consider myself a pirate.

 

[her209]

Obviously if media companies can sell you a brand-new product, they make a large profit, but they don't make anything when you buy second-hand.

If they had it their way, you'd have to buy licenses per viewing per viewer per device.

 

[CZroe]

High Definition Copy Protection.

:thumbsdown: Down with the makers of CP!

Ugh. NO ONE but my twin brother caught this? For shame, Anandtech. HDCP has nothing to do with the particular resolution. Any signal carried over it can be protected... even audio-only signals.

It's ridiculous now. I was commenting to my wife the other day that I wished we still had VHS tapes. VHS fucking tapes! They're awful! But the shit they're doing with DVDs has just made them so awful I think the tradeoff isn't worth it anymore. At least tapes fucking did what I told them too, and they'd play past a bad spot on the tape instead of locking up and requiring me to unplug the dvd player for a half hour before it will let me try again (this is seriously how it works with my DVD player...WTF?) It shouldn't be a soul crushing scream fest to watch a god damn DVD.

And of course, these are all legal rental copies! I'd imagine pirates just strip this shit right off.

AnyDVD works great for non-pirates. I used it with my HTPC in 2005 because it allowed my to output any supported resolution over component video when watching DVDs. Without it, CSS-protected DVDs were only allowed to output at EDTV resolutions. As a bonus, it removed POPs (Prohibitted User Operations).

Now I'm fully paid up for AnyDVD HD and enjoy the ability to output commercial HD content without HDCP-compliant hardware as well. I haven't needed it, but the removal of region protections is also a big plus.

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

Just goes to show that DRM and copy protection just make it harder for consumers. Hackers can easily go around DRM and copy protection as shown by them figuring out the HDCP master key.

 

[silverpig]

Bullshit. You pirate it to save money like everybody else, not because of some perceived wrong imposed on you by the big bad music companies.

I don't pirate movies. I generally just don't watch them, or watch them in the theater.

The few movies I own, I have ripped to an HTPC.

 

[CZroe]

Just goes to show that DRM and copy protection just make it harder for consumers. Hackers can easily go around DRM and copy protection as shown by them figuring out the HDCP master key.

Actually, the word is that it wasn't "figured out" but was, in fact, leaked.

 

[sciwizam]

[Engadget] Confirmed: Intel says HDCP 'master key' crack is real

 

[Gibsons]

Good point regarding second-hand sales. Obviously if media companies can sell you a brand-new product, they make a large profit, but they don't make anything when you buy second-hand.

True but it's maybe short sighted on their part.

I don't think Toyota worries about not making money when someone buys a car second hand. In the long run, resale value can enhance sales, car companies even advertise it.

 

[InflatableBuddha]

True but it's maybe short sighted on their part.

I don't think Toyota worries about not making money when someone buys a car second hand. In the long run, resale value can enhance sales, car companies even advertise it.

In your analogy, a media company can build brand loyalty by producing great content with great features, which is also enjoyed second-hand. True, this may increase their overall sales. Well-built cars such as Toyotas, maintain a great reputation even in the used market, and this bolsters new vehicle sales.

However, this is where the analogy falls apart: Vehicles need regular maintenance and repairs. Toyota dealerships make a lot of money doing maintenance and repairs both on cars they sell, and on used Toyotas originally sold at other dealerships. Vehicles require work throughout their entire useful life.

In contrast, DVDs, Blu-Rays and digital files do not require maintenance. Media companies would never conceive of selling you cheap replacement copies if you lose or break your original copy; they would make more money selling you a another brand new copy.

 

[zinfamous]

Good news indeed. The Music and Video industry should be focusing more on putting out good stuff rather than attacking those who pirate their garbage. Or worse, try to use their garbage in an "unauthorized" fashion.

if it's garbage, then why would anyone want to steal it?

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

Actually, the word is that it wasn't "figured out" but was, in fact, leaked.

Leaked? What do you mean leaked?

 

[0roo0roo]

It's ridiculous now. I was commenting to my wife the other day that I wished we still had VHS tapes. VHS fucking tapes! They're awful! But the shit they're doing with DVDs has just made them so awful I think the tradeoff isn't worth it anymore. At least tapes fucking did what I told them too, and they'd play past a bad spot on the tape instead of locking up and requiring me to unplug the dvd player for a half hour before it will let me try again (this is seriously how it works with my DVD player...WTF?) It shouldn't be a soul crushing scream fest to watch a god damn DVD.

And of course, these are all legal rental copies! I'd imagine pirates just strip this shit right off.

what lousy player and disc are you using, i've rented countless netflix discs without issue. a few shattered in the mail, out of hundreds

 

[tcsenter]

Stolen (leaked) != cracked

 

[Double Trouble]

Actually, the word is that it wasn't "figured out" but was, in fact, leaked.

That's both a significant difference and (from a practical perspective) irrelevant. Seems like it wasn't cracked at all, but someone just swiped it, so it's not really that the crypto was broken. At the same time, the bottom line is unchanged -- consumers win.

 

[Modelworks]

That's both a significant difference and (from a practical perspective) irrelevant. Seems like it wasn't cracked at all, but someone just swiped it, so it's not really that the crypto was broken. At the same time, the bottom line is unchanged -- consumers win.

Actually the consumers lose. They will not just sit back and let people copy content unprotected. They will just release a new HDCP master key update to devices and they are back in business. The consumers are the ones that will lose again. The consumers will be the ones who buy a new movie , attempt to play it and be told that they need to update the firmware on their tv and player . DRM is here to stay no matter how much the 'information wants to be free' crowd wants it to go away.

The only way to hurt the DRM companies it to stop using their products in any way. As long as you show any kind of interest in it, even if you don't buy it, they know they have something you want and will do what they can to make you pay to get it.

 

[mrCide]

-I have Netflix, I never store/copy discs I rent.
-I have an HTPC, I download most tv shows I miss/can't tivo and delete them afterwords (except I sometimes keep fansub anime).
-I have an HTPC, I sometimes download R5s, Screeners and occasionally TS for movies that I'd never go out and pay for (based on previews).
-I go out and see movies that I think look good in the theater.
-If I like a movie a lot and want to see it again after DVD/BD release, I'll buy it.

^ My process. Last movie I bought was Kick-Ass. Before that I can't remember. Inception was good but there sure are a lot of god awful movies out, or at least hardly any worth purchasing. Easy to see who gets and deserves (my) money.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Actually the consumers lose. They will not just sit back and let people copy content unprotected. They will just release a new HDCP master key update to devices and they are back in business. The consumers are the ones that will lose again. The consumers will be the ones who buy a new movie , attempt to play it and be told that they need to update the firmware on their tv and player . DRM is here to stay no matter how much the 'information wants to be free' crowd wants it to go away.

The only way to hurt the DRM companies it to stop using their products in any way. As long as you show any kind of interest in it, even if you don't buy it, they know they have something you want and will do what they can to make you pay to get it.

This. I don't get why people always say consumers win because of copy protection being cracked, unless by consumers they mean people who pirate the stuff.

Breaking this kind of stuff just leads to more piracy, which again is counteracted by more DRM. It's childish to think that this entire battle won't just cause more problems for the end consumer.,

 

[Number1]

Intel confirms HD code crack, but says it's near-impossible for pirates to use


" Intel Thursday confirmed that the "master key" to anti-piracy software for movies shown on HDTVs, Blu-ray players and set-top boxes circulating on the Internet in recent days is indeed the real thing. But, says the company, which created it, pirates will have an almost-impossible time putting it to work.
"Based on the testing we’ve done, it does appear that this circumvention is real,"said Tom Waldrop, an Intel spokesman.
However, he said, in order for the code to be "misused....someone would have to make a computer chip from it and put that chip into a device" that would play pirated movies.
"Creating a computer chip is a very expensive proposition," he said. "But if someone wanted to manufacture a chip and build devices that could listen in, eavesdrop on content, and obtain it that way, illegally, they would have to do that."
In other words, just having the master key to the code for HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection), the anti-piracy software used on every device that plays high-def content to prevent copying of movies, is not enough to make gazillion copies — or even one — of, say, "Resident Evil: Afterlife" or "Inception."
News of the master key's availability was spread, in part, via Twitter with links to a website containing the code to unlock the copy protection "master key." Hollywood was in no way happy to hear that. The movie industry, looking for new revenue sources, is planning to start streaming films to consumers at home for viewing on high-def sets while those movies are still in theaters as well.
Waldrop said Intel is "still investigating exactly how (the crack) was achieved." But, he said. "It's important to note that HDCP as a technology remains a very effective way to protect digital entertainment, especially in conjunction with the licensing agreements that are used, and the legal enforcement mechanisms that are available whenever circumvention issues do arise."
And, "should any circumvention devices appear on the market — if someone uses this to try to create hardware that could take advantage of this hack, there are legal remedies that can and will be pursued," he said. Those legal remedies include prosecution under the federal Digital Millennium Copyright Act."

 

[Bateluer]

Intel confirms HD code crack, but says it's near-impossible for pirates to use


" Intel Thursday confirmed that the "master key" to anti-piracy software for movies shown on HDTVs, Blu-ray players and set-top boxes circulating on the Internet in recent days is indeed the real thing. But, says the company, which created it, pirates will have an almost-impossible time putting it to work.
"Based on the testing we’ve done, it does appear that this circumvention is real,"said Tom Waldrop, an Intel spokesman.
However, he said, in order for the code to be "misused....someone would have to make a computer chip from it and put that chip into a device" that would play pirated movies.
"Creating a computer chip is a very expensive proposition," he said. "But if someone wanted to manufacture a chip and build devices that could listen in, eavesdrop on content, and obtain it that way, illegally, they would have to do that."
In other words, just having the master key to the code for HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection), the anti-piracy software used on every device that plays high-def content to prevent copying of movies, is not enough to make gazillion copies — or even one — of, say, "Resident Evil: Afterlife" or "Inception."
News of the master key's availability was spread, in part, via Twitter with links to a website containing the code to unlock the copy protection "master key." Hollywood was in no way happy to hear that. The movie industry, looking for new revenue sources, is planning to start streaming films to consumers at home for viewing on high-def sets while those movies are still in theaters as well.
Waldrop said Intel is "still investigating exactly how (the crack) was achieved." But, he said. "It's important to note that HDCP as a technology remains a very effective way to protect digital entertainment, especially in conjunction with the licensing agreements that are used, and the legal enforcement mechanisms that are available whenever circumvention issues do arise."
And, "should any circumvention devices appear on the market — if someone uses this to try to create hardware that could take advantage of this hack, there are legal remedies that can and will be pursued," he said. Those legal remedies include prosecution under the federal Digital Millennium Copyright Act."

Someone just threw down the gauntlet.

 

[silverpig]

Someone just threw down the gauntlet.

[bush] Bring it on. [/bush]

 

[PokerGuy]

Intel confirms HD code crack, but says it's near-impossible for pirates to use


" Intel Thursday confirmed that the "master key" to anti-piracy software for movies shown on HDTVs, Blu-ray players and set-top boxes circulating on the Internet in recent days is indeed the real thing. But, says the company, which created it, pirates will have an almost-impossible time putting it to work.
"Based on the testing we’ve done, it does appear that this circumvention is real,"said Tom Waldrop, an Intel spokesman.
However, he said, in order for the code to be "misused....someone would have to make a computer chip from it and put that chip into a device" that would play pirated movies.
"Creating a computer chip is a very expensive proposition," he said. "But if someone wanted to manufacture a chip and build devices that could listen in, eavesdrop on content, and obtain it that way, illegally, they would have to do that."
In other words, just having the master key to the code for HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection), the anti-piracy software used on every device that plays high-def content to prevent copying of movies, is not enough to make gazillion copies — or even one — of, say, "Resident Evil: Afterlife" or "Inception."
News of the master key's availability was spread, in part, via Twitter with links to a website containing the code to unlock the copy protection "master key." Hollywood was in no way happy to hear that. The movie industry, looking for new revenue sources, is planning to start streaming films to consumers at home for viewing on high-def sets while those movies are still in theaters as well.
Waldrop said Intel is "still investigating exactly how (the crack) was achieved." But, he said. "It's important to note that HDCP as a technology remains a very effective way to protect digital entertainment, especially in conjunction with the licensing agreements that are used, and the legal enforcement mechanisms that are available whenever circumvention issues do arise."
And, "should any circumvention devices appear on the market — if someone uses this to try to create hardware that could take advantage of this hack, there are legal remedies that can and will be pursued," he said. Those legal remedies include prosecution under the federal Digital Millennium Copyright Act."

This argument makes no sense to me. Device makers already have all the chips use these keys, they don't have to make any new chip. The only difference is that one is a "legit" key while the other is one created using the leaked master. Shady device makers were not interested in creating a lot of devices before because they knew that the key they used in the device would just get blacklisted making the device essentially worthless and it would be hard to get a new key.

Now, with the new master key, they can create an infinite number of working keys, so it would not be very hard to build an HDCP converter that would take the HDCP protected signal on one end and output unprotected content over component or DVI on the other. They could just put a "keygen" type thing in the device so if the key used by the device would ever get blacklisted, it would just update to a new key in a matter of seconds. Worst case, a simple firmware update would do the trick.

Unless I'm missing something, that would not require any big fancy new chips to be created, so Intel is trying to put a spin on it to pretend it's not a big leak. It is.

 

[PokerGuy]

Someone just threw down the gauntlet.

Yup, and we know how well that always works out for the DRM makers......

 

[PokerGuy]

This. I don't get why people always say consumers win because of copy protection being cracked, unless by consumers they mean people who pirate the stuff.

As a consumer I win because I will be able to buy a device that will let me capture BR disks and other high def content (think HBO etc) onto any device (like a PC) and do with it as I please. I can use the content that I legally purchased the way I want.

Breaking this kind of stuff just leads to more piracy, which again is counteracted by more DRM. It's childish to think that this entire battle won't just cause more problems for the end consumer.,

Breaking this stuff does not lead to more piracy. In case you hadn't noticed, pirates have had absolutely no problem grabbing and distributing content supposedly protected by AACS and other DRM methods. Pirates are generally unaffected. It's the legit customers that get the problems. Ultimately, those hassles drive more legitimate customers to be unsatisfied with the product, forcing content creators to abandon the DRM platforms. That's exactly why you can buy MP3's from amazon, apple etc, people got tired and upset with the hassles and restrictions of the DRM.

 

[PokerGuy]

They will just release a new HDCP master key update to devices and they are back in business. The consumers are the ones that will lose again. The consumers will be the ones who buy a new movie , attempt to play it and be told that they need to update the firmware on their tv and player . DRM is here to stay no matter how much the 'information wants to be free' crowd wants it to go away.

Actually, no, they won't just release a new master key and be back in business because doing so causes massive problems for both consumers and device makers who have to deal with angry consumers who don't understand why their expensive sony tv doesn't work anymore. People don't want to hassle with that kind of stuff and they certainly don't understand it. Dissatisfaction with the DRM and DRM-crippled media is what ultimately forces a change. See my post above re: MP3's vs drm'd sound tracks.

DRM can only survive in the marketplace if it's very hassle free for the consumer (ala Steam). If it annoys consumers, it's going get tossed.