HDCP DRM finally really cracked wide open

[Golgatha]

Well they definitely seem to have no clue what they are doing. Always seem to be behind the times and playing catch up.

I've never really run into any issues with DRM on anything, so I don't always understand the railing against it.

KT

If for no other reason than it being a waste of time and money I would be against it. Since it also hinders fair use and makes a criminal of all of us via the DMCA when we want to transcode our bought and paid for property, I am very against all forms of DRM. Heck, if I want to timeshift a day one movie rental I ought to be able to. HDCP being cracked wide open makes it happen. As you said though (sort of), I think the movie studios aren't going to do same day movie releases since perfect copies of current movies would be available on day 1 via P2P sights.

 

[sdifox]

I really hate how the fuckers abuse the "disable forward" flag. fucking make me sit through crap.

 

[darkswordsman17]

What about the people that put everything they have into making their art only to have it taken with out compensation? Sure, there are times it is not handled well, but I can't say I blame them for attempting to protect their stuff.

The argument of "make better stuff and I will pay for it" is what I find ridiculous.

KT

What happened to not assuming your customer, that legitimately buys your product is a thief?

Times when DRM wasn't handled well? Name one time it was handled well.

I feel the blame is warranted, as they have plenty of data that shows there are a lot of other reasons why they're not raking in money like they should, but instead they just blame piracy and dump tons of money into DRM and suing people (which hey, its perfectly reasonable that someone downloading a movie should be able to get a worse sentence than someone that kills people while driving drunk, or even stealing the physical movie from a store).

I don't find that argument silly at all. They're making way too many awful movies, why do they think people are going to pay to see let alone buy them?

Maybe not have 50% of the movies be outright remakes?
Maybe don't try to shove shitty 3D down our throats?
Maybe not shove shitty actors down our throats?
Maybe not make tons of sequels to movies that weren't even very good in the first place?
Maybe realize that there's a lot of movies that aren't worth owning?
Maybe realize the success of Netflix might have something to do with lower sales?
Maybe realize putting shitty half-assed transfers on Blu-Ray might prevent people from buying the movie?
Maybe don't make movies that are glorified ads for products?
Maybe not fill movies with tons of shitty computer effects (more bloom!)?
Maybe stop compressing the hell out of the audio so it sounds like garbage?
Maybe not rehash the same shitty ideas over and over?
Maybe stop making excuses and look at the clear mistakes made instead of blaming people for not buying the product?

 

[tokie]

Does this mean in the future one could watch HDCP-protected Blu-Rays on Linux or Mac OS X without the operating system supporting HDCP?

 

[KeithTalent]

I agree!

However, given that I'm perfectly willing to pay for content, I want to be able to view it on any device I own or have access to, and not just "approved" devices. I also want to be able to make copies for personal use (i.e. load into XBMC, etc.)

What happened to not assuming your customer, that legitimately buys your product is a thief?

Times when DRM wasn't handled well? Name one time it was handled well.

I feel the blame is warranted, as they have plenty of data that shows there are a lot of other reasons why they're not raking in money like they should, but instead they just blame piracy and dump tons of money into DRM and suing people (which hey, its perfectly reasonable that someone downloading a movie should be able to get a worse sentence than someone that kills people while driving drunk, or even stealing the physical movie from a store).

I don't find that argument silly at all. They're making way too many awful movies, why do they think people are going to pay to see let alone buy them?

Maybe not have 50% of the movies be outright remakes?
Maybe don't try to shove shitty 3D down our throats?
Maybe not shove shitty actors down our throats?
Maybe not make tons of sequels to movies that weren't even very good in the first place?
Maybe realize that there's a lot of movies that aren't worth owning?
Maybe realize the success of Netflix might have something to do with lower sales?
Maybe realize putting shitty half-assed transfers on Blu-Ray might prevent people from buying the movie?
Maybe don't make movies that are glorified ads for products?
Maybe not fill movies with tons of shitty computer effects (more bloom!)?
Maybe stop compressing the hell out of the audio so it sounds like garbage?
Maybe not rehash the same shitty ideas over and over?
Maybe stop making excuses and look at the clear mistakes made instead of blaming people for not buying the product?

Steam works extremely well and it is a form of DRM and it's one I use pretty much daily.

If you have a problem with the content then DON'T FUCKING WATCH IT, problem solved. If it all sucks so much then why do you even want to watch it? I watched trailers and read reviews for several movies this Summer and decided they did not look good, so I did not go see them or rent them, yet I still managed to see many great films.

So if you saw an ad or a trailer for something and thought it looked stupid, would you walk into a store and take the DVD?

I'm sorry but that argument is absolute bullshit. The people bringing up legitimate arguments, like being able to watch things they purchased on any of the systems they own, I can totally agree with, but arguing you are entitled to have something for free because it sucks, well

KT

 

[Double Trouble]

I have no problem with the idea that you have to buy the product if you want to use it, and that the content creators should get paid for their product. What always irritates me is that 1) the content creators want to maintain control over what I can do with the product and how and when -- even after I've legitimately purchased it. 2) They assume that everyone is a thief and inconvenience the legit consumer while thieves actually get a better (non-drm crappified) product for free. And 3) they abuse restrictions to force you to watch commercials etc, blocking the "forward" feature. I want to control how I consume the product after I buy it, it's not up to them how I want to watch it. I see it kind of like Coke or Pepsi controlling how you drink the product, how many cubes of ice you can use, in what kind of glass (only pepsi approved glasses damn you!), and at what time of the night.

This is a great day, yet another worthless DRM scheme is defeated. :thumbsup:

 

[sactoking]

Ok, can't say that I ever would have found that one

It's tagged with both HDMI and HDCP. Your search-fu is lacking.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

I have no problem with the idea that you have to buy the product if you want to use it, and that the content creators should get paid for their product. What always irritates me is that 1) the content creators want to maintain control over what I can do with the product and how and when -- even after I've legitimately purchased it. 2) They assume that everyone is a thief and inconvenience the legit consumer while thieves actually get a better (non-drm crappified) product for free. And 3) they abuse restrictions to force you to watch commercials etc, blocking the "forward" feature. I want to control how I consume the product after I buy it, it's not up to them how I want to watch it. I see it kind of like Coke or Pepsi controlling how you drink the product, how many cubes of ice you can use, in what kind of glass (only pepsi approved glasses damn you!), and at what time of the night.

This is a great day, yet another worthless DRM scheme is defeated. :thumbsup:

I can see where this argument comes from, and I do agree with parts of it. But what I don't get is why people use this as justification to pirate. Yes many arguments are valid, but if you disagree with a corporation, why do you need to pirate the content? Pirating is the REASON corporations want to put in restrictive DRM in the first place. It just becomes a circle of blaming each other and neither is in the right.

 

[Terzo]

I can see where this argument comes from, and I do agree with parts of it. But what I don't get is why people use this as justification to pirate. Yes many arguments are valid, but if you disagree with a corporation, why do you need to pirate the content? Pirating is the REASON corporations want to put in restrictive DRM in the first place. It just becomes a circle of blaming each other and neither is in the right.

Perhaps I've got the tinfoil hat on too tight, but I don't think pirating is the reason for DRM, rather an excuse. Preventing second hand sales and all that, at least in the gaming world.

In general, I don't think anyone here is advocating pirating. They just don't appreciate the bullshit that comes along with the DRM (amen to locking fast forward and making me watch anti piracy ads for a movie i bought...wtf).

I suppose this is a childish view, but I don't feel like the RIAA or MPAA have any respect for me, so why should I give a shit about them? I haven't pirated anything since I was a kid, but I'm extremely cheap when it comes to media. Generally I try to spend no more than $10 on movies/cds and $20 on games. Often times this means I'm purchasing used goods, something I believe the content producers would love to stop.

 

[Ichinisan]

High Definition Copy Protection.

:thumbsdown: Down with the makers of CP!

NO.

"High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection"

Even people who should know better get this wrong.

YaY! Now I can get some perfect HD Rips of movies illegally.
All these 1080p rips I had before look horrible.

What would be be point of having uncompressed video and re-compressing it? Blu-ray protection has been cracked for a long time and you won't have to capture several hundred GB before converting.

 

[silverpig]

I really hate how the fuckers abuse the "disable forward" flag. fucking make me sit through crap.

This is one of the reasons why I will never watch a movie on a disc again.

 

[Ichinisan]

This is one of the reasons why I will never watch a movie on a disc again.

Worse: When I actually WANT to go back during a trailer and they've gotten carried away, disabling my ability to go BACK! FFFFFUUUUUuuuuuuuu!!!!

HTPC + AnyDVD HD...fo lyfe, yo.

 

[Raduque]

Way to jump to the same ridiculous conclusions as the MPAA.

Maybe people don't want to sit through 5 minutes of garbage before they can just play the movie? Maybe they don't like having to watch a warning about stealing a movie they legitimately bought? What about the people that got screwed over with early Blu-Ray players that can't update to the newest DRM? What about the people that just want to play a movie on their PC, but because of DRM they won't be able to play back the movie they legitimately bought? What about the people that don't trust DRM after the rootkit fiascoes from a few years back?

Per the MPAA, these people are all pirates.

 

[preslove]

This is a good thing because I will soon be able to buy a cheap device to allow me to use my perfectly fine 1080p tv with component only inputs. There's no conceivable reason why I should have to get rid of my perfectly fine TV just because the idiots want to force more DRM onto me.

It's also good because I'm sure it will lead to lots of new innovation and capture devices that will let you capture high def content and store it, right now you are limited to low def only with most consumer level hardware.

Those devices will still violate the dmca.

 

[Modelworks]

Any device that exploits the key will still be illegal and the key is not the end of hdcp some are thinking it is. There is nothing stopping manufacturers from pushing an update to devices to implement a new key. It would be annoying to consumers but it can be done. Just about every HDMI chipset can be updated by changing the microcode file it reads at boot. There are some first generation chips from when HDMI first came out that do not support that option but anything from the past couple years does support it.

The ONLY way to make companies do what you want is to stop giving them the money and stop using what they produce. Want DRM gone completely ? Stop supporting any studio that uses it in every way. Don't rent their content. Don't buy their content. Don't go to movies by studios whose policies you do not like. Don't download movies of studios you do not want to support.

The last one is important. I know some are thinking but what harm does it do to download the movie and not buy it, I'm not supporting the studio , so I'm hurting them and getting what I want ! Wrong. What you are doing when you download a movie and not buying it is showing the studio they have something you want, something you want so bad that you are willing to break the laws to get it. You show them that you value their content . To the studios people were willing to pay something for the content. They pay for the internet, their pc, the devices they watch the movie on, so they are willing to pay, if only the studio can figure out how to make them pay.

The way to get studios to change is to ignore their releases. What would have happened to the industry if millions of people refused to watch avatar in the theater due to DRM being used by the studio on their products? Will never happen though because people like to complain and talk about how things are wrong and need to change but they are not willing to do what needs to be done to make it happen. If you hate DRM and you bought a DVD, Bluray, or went to a movie by a studio that uses it, then stop complaining and do something about it.

 

[StrangerGuy]

You put so much crap that people don't even want to pirate, let alone buy and now you wonder why you money isn't flowing in. What to do? Blame piracy!

 

[geno]

A couple of years back, I bought my first LCD monitor, and I wanted a 24" with HDCP in case I ever wanted to play Blu Rays on it, because you can't have Blu Ray without HDCP At the time, an HDCP capable monitor of the same size was anywhere between 50-100 more than a non-HDCP one, so to stay Blu Ray capable, I had to shell out the extra dough. :thumbsdown: to HDCP

 

[SP33Demon]

A couple of years back, I bought my first LCD monitor, and I wanted a 24" with HDCP in case I ever wanted to play Blu Rays on it, because you can't have Blu Ray without HDCP At the time, an HDCP capable monitor of the same size was anywhere between 50-100 more than a non-HDCP one, so to stay Blu Ray capable, I had to shell out the extra dough. :thumbsdown: to HDCP

You are aware that you can't tell the difference of Blu-Ray vs non unless your screen is 40+?

 

[silverpig]

You are aware that you can't tell the difference of Blu-Ray vs non unless your screen is 40+?

If you sit close enough (as in computer-monitor close enough) you can.

 

[mugs]

What happened to not assuming your customer, that legitimately buys your product is a thief?

They don't assume that their customers are thieves, they assume that thieves will buy their products.

Times when DRM wasn't handled well? Name one time it was handled well.

Netflix streaming, Zune Pass, DRMed audiobooks saving people a trip to the public library, Steam

It's funny how many people love services that rely on DRM but hate DRM. DRM enables these services.

I feel the blame is warranted, as they have plenty of data that shows there are a lot of other reasons why they're not raking in money like they should, but instead they just blame piracy and dump tons of money into DRM and suing people (which hey, its perfectly reasonable that someone downloading a movie should be able to get a worse sentence than someone that kills people while driving drunk, or even stealing the physical movie from a store).

I don't find that argument silly at all. They're making way too many awful movies, why do they think people are going to pay to see let alone buy them?

Maybe not have 50% of the movies be outright remakes?
Maybe don't try to shove shitty 3D down our throats?
Maybe not shove shitty actors down our throats?
Maybe not make tons of sequels to movies that weren't even very good in the first place?
Maybe realize that there's a lot of movies that aren't worth owning?
Maybe realize the success of Netflix might have something to do with lower sales?
Maybe realize putting shitty half-assed transfers on Blu-Ray might prevent people from buying the movie?
Maybe don't make movies that are glorified ads for products?
Maybe not fill movies with tons of shitty computer effects (more bloom!)?
Maybe stop compressing the hell out of the audio so it sounds like garbage?
Maybe not rehash the same shitty ideas over and over?
Maybe stop making excuses and look at the clear mistakes made instead of blaming people for not buying the product?

I've always wondered why so many people pirate movies when they're not even worth watching.

 

[Number1]

What happened to not assuming your customer, that legitimately buys your product is a thief?

Times when DRM wasn't handled well? Name one time it was handled well.

I feel the blame is warranted, as they have plenty of data that shows there are a lot of other reasons why they're not raking in money like they should, but instead they just blame piracy and dump tons of money into DRM and suing people (which hey, its perfectly reasonable that someone downloading a movie should be able to get a worse sentence than someone that kills people while driving drunk, or even stealing the physical movie from a store).

I don't find that argument silly at all. They're making way too many awful movies, why do they think people are going to pay to see let alone buy them?

Maybe not have 50% of the movies be outright remakes?
Maybe don't try to shove shitty 3D down our throats?
Maybe not shove shitty actors down our throats?
Maybe not make tons of sequels to movies that weren't even very good in the first place?
Maybe realize that there's a lot of movies that aren't worth owning?
Maybe realize the success of Netflix might have something to do with lower sales?
Maybe realize putting shitty half-assed transfers on Blu-Ray might prevent people from buying the movie?
Maybe don't make movies that are glorified ads for products?
Maybe not fill movies with tons of shitty computer effects (more bloom!)?
Maybe stop compressing the hell out of the audio so it sounds like garbage?
Maybe not rehash the same shitty ideas over and over?
Maybe stop making excuses and look at the clear mistakes made instead of blaming people for not buying the product?

What a bunch of hogwash. If it's not good enough for you to buy it why in the world is it good enough for you to steal it.

Unbelievable.

 

[Number1]

This is one of the reasons why I will never watch a movie on a disc again.

Bullshit. You pirate it to save money like everybody else, not because of some perceived wrong imposed on you by the big bad music companies.

 

[AMDZen]

If you have a problem with the content then DON'T FUCKING WATCH IT, problem solved.

Or JUST FUCKING PIRATE IT, problem is solved that way too. Whether its stealing or not is gray area for some of us, you stick with your morals and ethics and I'll stick to mine.

Getting back on topic. This is good news and was inevitable

 

[AMDZen]

What a bunch of hogwash. If it's not good enough for you to buy it why in the world is it good enough for you to steal it.

Unbelievable.

How people choose to live their lives is their business. Again, whether its stealing or not is gray area and a completely separate conversation. Get back on topic.

 

[KeithTalent]

Or JUST FUCKING PIRATE IT, problem is solved that way too. Whether its stealing or not is gray area for some of us, you stick with your morals and ethics and I'll stick to mine.

Getting back on topic. This is good news and was inevitable

Yeah, just because it's easily available to you, it's ok to do it. You wouldn't walk into a store and walk out with a disc, but since you can sit like a big man behind your computer screen, with relative anonymity, it's ok. :thumbsdown:

KT